Doing good

Hammster said:

Who said that their life was just like Paul? I don’t think neither Grip nor I did.

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You quote what Paul said about himself and say that is also true about you. What does that mean if it doesn't mean that your life is just like Paul's? Paul said for him to live was Christ (not getting a nice house and job and vacations and wife and chilren and retirement.) Everything he did was for the spreading of the gospel. That is what "to live for Christ" means. What else does it mean? I do not claim that, by the way. I think the standard is too far above me.

Hammster said:

And that’s not all anyone here is talking about.

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I agree. It came from what I hear at churches I visited in the US recently, not from here. My apologies.

Dorothy Mae said:

I guess I don’t get this either. What is your point?

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My point is that the Gospel isn't about going to heaven, but having a meaningful life. Gentiles lived without hope, far from God. The Gospel puts us in union with God so that what was promised to Abraham could be fulfilled and Gentiles could also become blessings to the world.

Galatians 3
174He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Why forget this link to the Gospel?

Israel was given the vineyard to bless the world. They never did it, so the Kingdom was taken from them and given to others.

What is the blessing, the rent which the landowner came to collect? Followers of God. Instead the Jews traveled far and wide and made: Followers of Judaism. Who turned out to be even bigger devil's than the Jews themselves. They wanted to kill the Son so that they would keep getting more of their own followers, stealing the inheritance from the Son.

Matthew 23
15Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

Matthew 21
38“But when the vine-growers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir; come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39“They took him, and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. 40“Therefore when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine-growers?” 41They said to Him, “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end, and will rent out the vineyard to other vine-growers who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons.”

What is the kingdom? The ability to do wonders so that blind can see and the sick are healed. Spiritual sickness. In the process the sick Jews are made Followers of God, so that they can in turn make Gentiles followers of God.

Matthew 13
2Now when John, while imprisoned, heard of the works of Christ, he sent word by his disciples 3and said to Him, “Are You the Expected One, or shall we look for someone else?” 4Jesus answered and said to them, “Go and report to John what you hear and see: 5theBLIND RECEIVE SIGHT and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the POOR HAVE THE GOSPEL PREACHED TO THEM. 6“And blessed is he who does not take offense at Me.”

When great works are done, doesn't the boasting boast of God? What did Rahab say? We heard that God is with you. What did Nicodemus say? No one can do these things unless God is with them...

I've given you two examples of how, when God is revealed in the speaker, Followers of God, the rent from the vineyard, harvest, is collected.

Dorothy Mae said:

Interesting. A poster says that their live is just like Paul or that they identify with Paul (same thing) and when I read their posts and do not see that their life is just like Paul, and say so, you twist it to say I have an issue with Paul. It went like this more or less..

XYZ: I am like Paul
ME: I don't see that.
XYZ: You have a problem with Paul?
ME: Huh? I have a problem with you claiming you are like Paul.
XYZ: Sounds like you don't like Paul.

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Dorothy Mae said:

Sure. I will not attack you personally or call you names or say you are mentally inadequate or the usual things people engage in when in a discussion where there is disagreement.

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I have no quarrel with you, nor does Hammster.

You seem to be caught up with the idea that it is okay to inspect the Body of Christ’s individual members for their biblical compliance to the Holy Spirit.

This actually places you in the awkward position of possibly tearing down what the Holy Spirit is doing in individual lives, in His timing.

By doing this, you are inclined to offer correction that may be accidentally directed at the very Spirit that saves a Believer... and subsequently incur God’s wrath that is rooted in Love.

The Sword Of the Spirit is best turned inward. This way, we all can be patiently in harmony, instead of disagreeing over matters that resemble gnat straining.

All Love in Jesus Christ to you.

Hammster said:

Trust me, there’s no false humility here. I struggle greatly with pride. It’s because of that that I need to fully rely on Christ and being in Christ. It’s where my assurance comes from. I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the law (or any work of the flesh), then Christ died for nothing.

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Admission of sin...
Reliance on Jesus...
Exaltation of the work of Jesus...
Reduction of self...
Self Admonition ...
Exaltation Of the Gospel...

Maybe if you wrote it in third person???

Count me in the same boat, please! I agree with your post, towards myself, word for word.

Wordkeeper said:

You're sounding exhausted. You are in the family of God. There are times when you can just coast: rest and recuperate. When what you have is yours, are you not free to do with it as you wish? Believers were warned not to try to reach where their eyes could see, but only as far as their arms could reach

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Which passage of scripture is this found in?

Grip Docility said:

I have no quarrel with you, nor does Hammster.

You seem to be caught up with the idea that it is okay to inspect the Body of Christ’s individual members for their biblical compliance to the Holy Spirit.

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If you see a brother sinning, go and tell him his fault. And I actually did not say it was wrong, just that is sounds like boasting. I also said I think that is a high standard, claiming one is living solely for Christ, that is rarely seen but obviously more easily claimed as a description of one's own life. That is not inspecting. We are a discussion site. Doen't you want to discuss?

This actually places you in the awkward position of possibly tearing down what the Holy Spirit is doing in individual lives, in His timing.

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I am very sure that no one in whom the Holy Spirit is building up in any kind of power is thinking and talking about how spiritual they are or how their lives are lived solely for Jesus. No one. Paul was at a point in his walk with Christ that this literally was his sole passion. I would be more careful in claiming such passion.

By doing this, you are inclined to offer correction that may be accidentally directed at the very Spirit that saves a Believer... and subsequently incur God’s wrath that is rooted in Love.

Click to expand...

You will not find a word in the Bible that tells people, from GOd, that they are living solely for Christ now so bravo. The Holy Spirit comunicates how much God loves us. He does not tell us how great or spiritual we are. God rarely praises his own.

The Sword Of the Spirit is best turned inward. This way, we all can be patiently in harmony, instead of disagreeing over matters that resemble gnat straining.

All Love in Jesus Christ to you.

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No problem. But do you want to have a discussion or merely agree on every point anyone says for the sake of unity? The NT christians loved enough to disagree and remain a unity. That is possible, you know.

.

Wordkeeper said:

My point is that the Gospel isn't about going to heaven, but having a meaningful life. Gentiles lived without hope, far from God. The Gospel puts us in union with God so that what was promised to Abraham could be fulfilled and Gentiles could also become blessings to the world.

Click to expand...

HEre is where we differ. I am likely older than you and come from a different generation of discipleship. Our foundation was that the Gospel was about loving God and loving our neighbor as ourselves. The gospel gives us the freedom from the bondage of sin to do this. It gives us clean hearts so we can do this. It opens the door to relationship with God so that we can love Him and love others. We were never told that the gospel is there so we can enjoy meaningful lives. This is one difference between our views at the outset.

Galatians 3
174He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Why forget this link to the Gospel?

Israel was given the vineyard to bless the world. They never did it, so the Kingdom was taken from them and given to others.

What is the blessing, the rent which the landowner came to collect? Followers of God. Instead the Jews traveled far and wide and made: Followers of Judaism. Who turned out to be even bigger devil's than the Jews themselves. They wanted to kill the Son so that they would keep getting more of their own followers, stealing the inheritance from the Son.

Matthew 23
15Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

Matthew 21
38“But when the vine-growers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir; come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39“They took him, and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. 40“Therefore when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine-growers?” 41They said to Him, “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end, and will rent out the vineyard to other vine-growers who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons.”

Click to expand...

I agree with all of the above.

What is the kingdom? The ability to do wonders so that blind can see and the sick are healed. Spiritual sickness. In the process the sick Jews are made Followers of God, so that they can in turn make Gentiles followers of God.

Click to expand...

Is it only "spiritual" sickness? I actually do not recall the Bible calling refusing to believe a sickness. Do you have any scripture for that? I think it is called wickedness which is not a sickness.

By the way, you ever pray and see physical healing?

Matthew 13
2Now when John, while imprisoned, heard of the works of Christ, he sent word by his disciples 3and said to Him, “Are You the Expected One, or shall we look for someone else?” 4Jesus answered and said to them, “Go and report to John what you hear and see: 5theBLIND RECEIVE SIGHT and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the POOR HAVE THE GOSPEL PREACHED TO THEM. 6“And blessed is he who does not take offense at Me.”

When great works are done, doesn't the boasting boast of God? What did Rahab say? We heard that God is with you. What did Nicodemus say? No one can do these things unless God is with them...

I've given you two examples of how, when God is revealed in the speaker, Followers of God, the rent from the vineyard, harvest, is collected.

Click to expand...

Yes, I agree. But notice that Rahab did not hear from the men she met that they, themselves, were great or following the one true God. They did not talk about themselves at all. That is my point. Did Nicodemus talk about himself. Did Jesus even talk much about how he was living for GOd? Did he tell Nicodemus how great he was? That is my point.

Hammster said:

Trust me, there’s no false humility here. I struggle greatly with pride. It’s because of that that I need to fully rely on Christ and being in Christ. It’s where my assurance comes from. I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the law (or any work of the flesh), then Christ died for nothing.

Click to expand...

I am going to give you a hint to deal with pride. It is not relying on Christ in vague terms. It is in obedience to that things that are humbing for you. The Bible tells the proud to humble themselves, consider others better than yourself. There is no promise that the proud need to rely on Christ except when they know the HS (Christ) wants them to humble themselves in some deed or praise others and not themselves.

THe proud will never defeat pride by telling themselves that they are like Paul in some way and can make the same claims for their life that Paul used to describe his own. This is the opposite of humbling oneself. The best is to not think about yourself at all. The worst is claiming your life measures up to the words of Paul that described his life. And the worst about it all is that those who do so will find that God resists them and no grace is given them. God gives grace to the humble, not those who claim their lives are lived on a high spiritual plane.

Grip Docility said:

.

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Mind a blank? (Just a joke.)

Dorothy Mae said:

If you see a brother sinning, go and tell him his fault. And I actually did not say it was wrong, just that is sounds like boasting. I also said I think that is a high standard, claiming one is living solely for Christ, that is rarely seen but obviously more easily claimed as a description of one's own life. That is not inspecting. We are a discussion site. Doen't you want to discuss?
I am very sure that no one in whom the Holy Spirit is building up in any kind of power is thinking and talking about how spiritual they are or how their lives are lived solely for Jesus. No one. Paul was at a point in his walk with Christ that this literally was his sole passion. I would be more careful in claiming such passion.
You will not find a word in the Bible that tells people, from GOd, that they are living solely for Christ now so bravo. The Holy Spirit comunicates how much God loves us. He does not tell us how great or spiritual we are. God rarely praises his own.
No problem. But do you want to have a discussion or merely agree on every point anyone says for the sake of unity? The NT christians loved enough to disagree and remain a unity. That is possible, you know.

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Ask Hammster if I am locked in to being agreeable.

You’re kind in speech, but you’re still inspecting fruit. I issued a gentle Scriptural direction that isn’t gentle if sought in scripture.

Unity? I’m all about it. John 5:39-40

I even call Arians I have Scripturally dismantled, siblings still.... and revert to a Son Of God agreement, while always eager to proof Jesus is YHWH. (The I AM)

The spec often causes us to stumble., when we forget the Carpenters analogies.

Dorothy Mae said:

Mind a blank? (Just a joke.)

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Posting error.

I would pay good money for a blank mind.

Dorothy Mae said:

I am going to give you a hint to deal with pride. It is not relying on Christ in vague terms. It is in obedience to that things that are humbing for you. The Bible tells the proud to humble themselves, consider others better than yourself. There is no promise that the proud need to rely on Christ except when they know the HS (Christ) wants them to humble themselves in some deed or praise others and not themselves.

THe proud will never defeat pride by telling themselves that they are like Paul in some way and can make the same claims for their life that Paul used to describe his own. This is the opposite of humbling oneself. The best is to not think about yourself at all. The worst is claiming your life measures up to the words of Paul that described his life. And the worst about it all is that those who do so will find that God resists them and no grace is given them. God gives grace to the humble, not those who claim their lives are lived on a high spiritual plane.

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Still inspecting.

Dude literally poured his heart out.

Obedience is a mysterious word. The one who claims it is theirs is fooling no one.

The one who obeys, knows they can’t.

Faith moves Mountains... who needs a Spiritual Plane?

Provocation is visible.

Grip Docility said:

Ask Hammster if I am locked in to being agreeable.

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I did not think I had accused you of being locked into anything.

You’re kind in speech, but you’re still inspecting fruit. I issued a gentle Scriptural direction that isn’t gentle if sought in scripture.

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What scriptural direction did you issue? I actually merely pointed out that making claims about one's life that Paul claimed could be boasting. What is the point of saying it?

Unity? I’m all about it. John 5:39-40

I even call Arians I have Scripturally dismantled, siblings still.... and revert to a Son Of God agreement, while always eager to proof Jesus is YHWH. (The I AM)

The spec often causes us to stumble., when we forget the Carpenters analogies.

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You lost me here. Who are Arians? What is a spedc? What are the Carpenters analogies?

Grip Docility said:

Still inspecting.

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Actually no. I was giving a hint as to how to defeat pride in one's life. How is that inspecting? I did not point out pride where someone else did not say differently. Are you sure you know inspecting when you see it? A man says he has a problem with pride and I give him the Biblical answer that I know works. You then say I am inspecting. Is that what teachers do all day long when they teach? It that was JEsus did his whole life by giving teaching and instruction?

Dorothy Mae said:

HEre is where we differ. I am likely older than you and come from a different generation of discipleship. Our foundation was that the Gospel was about loving God and loving our neighbor as ourselves. The gospel gives us the freedom from the bondage of sin to do this. It gives us clean hearts so we can do this. It opens the door to relationship with God so that we can love Him and love others. We were never told that the gospel is there so we can enjoy meaningful lives. This is one difference between our views at the outset.
I agree with all of the above.
Is it only "spiritual" sickness? I actually do not recall the Bible calling refusing to believe a sickness. Do you have any scripture for that? I think it is called wickedness which is not a sickness.

By the way, you ever pray and see physical healing? Yes, I agree. But notice that Rahab did not hear from the men she met that they, themselves, were great or following the one true God. They did not talk about themselves at all. That is my point. Did Nicodemus talk about himself. Did Jesus even talk much about how he was living for GOd? Did he tell Nicodemus how great he was? That is my point.

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Jesus is being sarcastic here, the point being that the Pharisees think they are not sick:

Luke 5
31And Jesus answered and said to them, "It is not those who are well who need a physician, but those who are sick.

Ask yourself if Israel would have come out of Egypt if they did not feel confident that God was with Moses.

Next time your pastor asks you to evangelise, rescue people out of Egypt, ask him to lay hands on you.

Exodus 4
1Then Moses answered, “What if they refuse to believe me or listen to my voice? For they may say, ‘The LORD has not appeared to you.’”

2And the LORD asked him, “What is that in your hand?”

“A staff,” he replied.

3“Throw it on the ground,” said the Lord. So Moses threw it on the ground, and it became a snake, and he ran from it.

4“Stretch out your hand and grab it by the tail,” the LORD said to Moses. So he reached out his hand and caught the snake, and it turned back into a staff in his hand. 5“This is so that they may believe that the LORD, the God of their fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has appeared to you.

The Gospel is that what was promised to Abraham has come to us, the empowerment to be a blessing to the world. Like Moses, like Christ. Through being in Christ.

Galatians 3
13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”f14He redeemed us in order that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.