Is there a second chance after death?

ChicanaRose said:

I don't know...but I get where you are coming from. I did pray the same when someone I knew died, asking God to take her to heaven.

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Prayers for the dead are Hebrew in origin and have continued with Christianity. BUT within Orthodoxy and Catholicism they have not been to pray for the salvation of the deceased but to aid them in their post-salvational purification. Orthodoxy is not very specific about it, but Catholics call it purgatory. Purgatory, however, is not a second chance and only for those already saved. Nowhere in original Christianity is there anything about those who died getting another chance after death.

W2L said:

Can God show them mercy because He is merciful?

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Of course. He can show mercy to whom ever he wishes

W2L said:

If no one is righteous and all needing saved, is it possible for an unbeliever to see Christ at the throne at judgment time and bend his knee and confess Jesus as Lord? Could that save him? Am i overstepping my bounds by asking this question?

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Apologies if this has already been said. I haven't read through the thread.

No one (except the very young or the mentally disabled) stands before God on Judgment Day totally oblivious to His existence. The apostle Paul wrote that both Nature and the human conscience reveal God to all of us (Romans 1:19-20; Romans 2:15). "The heavens declare the glory of God," King David wrote (Psalms 19:1), and an honest observer of the beauty and complexity of the universe, and the razor's edge upon which it balances, sees God very clearly. God has also written His moral law upon our hearts, the Bible says. And so, in our conscience, we see something of our holy Creator. But people "suppress the truth in unrighteousness," Paul wrote (Romans 1:18). They push down the knowledge of God evident in Nature and conscience, choosing to be their own god instead, serving their own interests and desires. And so, no one will stand before God and say, "I had no idea you even existed!" No, when an unrepentant sinner encounters God on Judgment Day, the truth he's suppressed will break upon him in terrible force, dissolving any objection to God's justice and wrath he could offer and condemning him. The unrepentant sinner will certainly bow his knee to his Maker (Philippians 1:9-11), but it will not save him from the separation from God he's pursued all of his life. On Judgment Day, though, the separation will be permanent.

Will God show mercy? No. Instead He warns us in His word:

Romans 2:5
5 But after your hardness and impenitent heart you treasure up to yourself wrath against the Day of Wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God.
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds.
7 To those who by patient continuance in well-doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life.
8 But unto those who are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath.

Matthew 16:27
27 For the Son of Man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his deeds.

W2L said:

If no one is righteous and all needing saved, is it possible for an unbeliever to see Christ at the throne at judgment time and bend his knee and confess Jesus as Lord? Could that save him? Am i overstepping my bounds by asking this question?

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Whatever happens to someone after this life I leave to the infinite wisdom, love, and mercy of God. As a sinner saved by grace, and assuming the least important seat at the Banquet, I dare not take His place in determining who is eligible to get into heaven.

Will a person get a second chance at the throne of judgement? The scriptures do not appear to support this idea, and although I'd like to think so, ultimately that decision rests alone with the Lord.

Yarddog said:

Of course. He can show mercy to whom ever he wishes

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Well of course God can show mercy to whomever He wishes.

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” (Romans 9:14, Exodus 33:19).

God's mercy is extended as grace, though the saving faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, while we are alive (Ephesians 2:8-9). But before God is merciful, loving, and kind, God is holy, righteous, and just. There is absolutely no passage in scripture in which God has extended His mercy to anyone after death. The only thing you can expect from a holy and righteous judge is justice. I guarantee you that God loves every soul that has ever been thrown into hell more than we can possibly imagine.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:

If that is so, how then do you reconcile Revelation 20? Also, are we then to conclude that Galatians 5 and James 5:19-20 and practically everything Jesus said about Hell to be mere empty threats?

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The Revelation, chapter 20 - Death and Hell - better rendered as "Death and the Grave."

Galatians 5 - no mention of Hell.

James 5:19-20 - again, no mention of Hell.

I'm not sure what you are driving at here, but I have examined everything Jesus is said to have said about Hell, and I see dishonest translation, at least in the KJV and its ilk. "Hell" the word is from the languages of northern Europe, not from Latin, Greek or Hebrew. "Hell" the doctrine, as far as I can tell, is from pagan sources. I don't care to argue about it anymore here.

aiki said:

No one (except the very young or the mentally disabled) stands before God on Judgment Day totally oblivious to His existence. The apostle Paul wrote that both Nature and the human conscience reveal God to all of us (Romans 1:19-20; Romans 2:15). "The heavens declare the glory of God," King David wrote (Psalms 19:1), and an honest observer of the beauty and complexity of the universe, and the razor's edge upon which it balances, sees God very clearly. God has also written His moral law upon our hearts, the Bible says. And so, in our conscience, we see something of our holy Creator. But people "suppress the truth in unrighteousness," Paul wrote (Romans 1:18). They push down, the knowledge of God evident in Nature and conscience, choosing to be their own god instead, serving their own interests and desires. And so, no one will stand before God and say, "I had no idea you even existed!"

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You have a point there, Aiki. Especially in America and with all the media available to us, most people would have heard the Gospel. A lot of people I know have gone to Sunday schools as children, or have at least one family member or an acquaintance who is a Christian.

I think part of wishing that they would be saved after death is coming from the guilt of me failing to convince them to accept Jesus. (Maybe I was not aggressive enough in trying to convince them).

Lazarus Short said:

The Revelation, chapter 20 - Death and Hell - better rendered as "Death and the Grave."

Galatians 5 - no mention of Hell.

James 5:19-20 - again, no mention of Hell.

I'm not sure what you are driving at here, but I have examined everything Jesus is said to have said about Hell, and I see dishonest translation, at least in the KJV and its ilk. "Hell" the word is from the languages of northern Europe, not from Latin, Greek or Hebrew. "Hell" the doctrine, as far as I can tell, is from pagan sources. I don't care to argue about it anymore here.

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You said:

Lazarus Short said:

You are not thinking things through. Your Bible and mine states that the last enemy to be destroyed will be Death. Explain how anyone can still be dead and/or in Hell after this has been accomplished. According to common belief, you must be dead to be in Hell, yes? But death is going to be done away with. This is how God will become All and in all. "All" is all-inclusive.

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But Jesus defeated death....right? So why all the empty threats and warnings about your soul dying?

Second,
"11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:11-15)

Call Hell whatever you want. I really don't care. But this passage is absolutely clear that the only destination for the unsaved is eternity in the "lake of fire".

One of the basic hermeneutical principles to scripture interpretation is that scripture interprets scripture and that scripture cannot contradict scripture. Your interpretation supporting universalism contradicts many passages in scripture. Therefor, one can only conclude that your interpretation is wrong...period.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:

You said:

But Jesus defeated death....right? So why all the empty threats and warnings about your soul dying?

Second,
"11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:11-15)

Call Hell whatever you want. I really don't care. But this passage is absolutely clear that the only destination for the unsaved is eternity in the "lake of fire".

One of the basic hermeneutical principles to scripture interpretation is that scripture interprets scripture and that scripture cannot contradict scripture. Your interpretation supporting universalism contradicts many passages in scripture. Therefor, one can only conclude that your interpretation is wrong...period.

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It would help if you search out “Gehenna” and “Sheol”. In respects to your initial statement. You probably already knew this, but I figured I’ld throw it out there.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:

Well of course God can show mercy to whomever He wishes.

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” (Romans 9:14, Exodus 33:19).

God's mercy is extended as grace, though the saving faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, while we are alive (Ephesians 2:8-9). But before God is merciful, loving, and kind, God is holy, righteous, and just. There is absolutely no passage in scripture in which God has extended His mercy to anyone after death.

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There is also no passage which says he will not.

The only thing you can expect from a holy and righteous judge is justice.

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Anything which God chooses to do is just. God makes the rules which God goes by, not man. God made all and whatever he judges to do with his creation his just.

I guarantee you that God loves every soul that has ever been thrown into hell more than we can possibly imagine.

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Who has implied anything else?[/Quote]

ChicanaRose said:

I think part of wishing that they would be saved after death is coming from the guilt of me failing to convince them to accept Jesus. (Maybe I was not aggressive enough in trying to convince them).

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2 Timothy 2:25 says that it is God who "gives repentance to the acknowledging of the truth." John 6:44 says that God must draw men to Christ so that they might be saved. Romans 12:3 tells us that God gives to each person a "measure of faith." John 16:8 indicates that God convicts the world of sin. If all of these things are true, why do you think the saving of a person depends upon you, upon your aggressiveness in sharing the Gospel? According to Scripture, salvation is a work of God, not a work of Man. So, you can relax when evangelizing. God will save whom He will save. He doesn't need us to be strident and pushy.

2 Timothy 2:24-26
24 And the servant of the must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those who oppose themselves; if God perhaps will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Ephesians 1:17
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of Glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him;

W2L said:

If no one is righteous and all needing saved, is it possible for an unbeliever to see Christ at the throne at judgment time and bend his knee and confess Jesus as Lord? Could that save him? Am i overstepping my bounds by asking this question?

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When one dies earthly death ... what choice they made (receiving Christ or not) stands for eternity. There is not a second chance after earthly death or when Christ returns. Christ will not return until all have made their choices. (Revelation 22:11)

Hebrews 10

27Just as man is appointed to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28so also Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await Him (1st resurrection).

Luke 13:23-27
Matthew 7:22,23; Matthew 25:10-13
Isaiah 55:6
2 Corinthians 6:1, 2
Jeremiah 8:20
Revelation 22:11

Yarddog said:

There is also no passage which he will not.

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Revelation 20:11-15.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:

You said:

But Jesus defeated death....right? So why all the empty threats and warnings about your soul dying?

Second,
"11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:11-15)

Call Hell whatever you want. I really don't care. But this passage is absolutely clear that the only destination for the unsaved is eternity in the "lake of fire".

One of the basic hermeneutical principles to scripture interpretation is that scripture interprets scripture and that scripture cannot contradict scripture. Your interpretation supporting universalism contradicts many passages in scripture. Therefor, one can only conclude that your interpretation is wrong...period.

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You could conclude that, but I have not brought my whole argument to bear - my whole argument is contained in a 217-page unpublished book which covers every relevant verse of the KJV. Speaking of Scripture not contradicting Scripture, don't Eternal Hell and the Defeat of Death contradict each other? I think you have yet to think the issue through...again, if anyone is still dead and/or in Hell, how can Death ever be defeated? The common response is to say that the Defeat of Death only applies to the saved, but I observe that the unsaved would still be very dead.

childeye 2 said:

Scripture says the Gospel was preached to the dead by the Christ when he was absent from his body for three days and three nights. But I assume this is before any judgment.

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Look at the verses closely .... not preaching to the "dead" as in dead in the grave. They are "dead" in their faith .... because they are not living according to God in the spirit.

1st Peter 4
5But they will have to give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6That is why the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged as men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

W2L said:

If no one is righteous and all needing saved, is it possible for an unbeliever to see Christ at the throne at judgment time and bend his knee and confess Jesus as Lord? Could that save him? Am i overstepping my bounds by asking this question?

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According to the Bible, every knee will bow. Probably it will not give eternal life.

Therefore God also highly exalted him, and gave to him the name which is above every name; that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, those on earth, and those under the earth,
Phi. 2:9-10

Even if person would do so, I don’t think he would be righteous, and as the Bible tells, eternal life is for righteous.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

W2L said:

If no one is righteous and all needing saved, is it possible for an unbeliever to see Christ at the throne at judgment time and bend his knee and confess Jesus as Lord? Could that save him? Am i overstepping my bounds by asking this question?

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I'm sorry, but it confuses me as to why Christians ask questions such as this.

First of all, we are saved by faith... If you are dead and standing at the feet of Jesus, faith is not even close... you are now in reality. Proof is sitting right there.

Second, it is appointed unto men once to die, then judgement. Where is the pause that says you get to change your mind?

Third, why would we even bother with evangelizing and teaching people the gospel.... So they can just die and then ask for forgiveness?

You will make your decision in this life. You will either accept the work of Christ or reject it. When you die, only one thing will decide your fate... Did you believe in Christ?

Again, it puzzles me how Christians can be confused on this issue.

In the last days people will not endure sound doctrine. That is the age we are in now.

Tell people that they don't have a second chance... tell them that being good is not good enough... tell them that it is their belief, faith, in Christ that saves them, not all the things that they did in this life.... tell them that there is a hell and it is real....
and... they will not believe you or like what you are saying.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:

Revelation 20:11-15.

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Thanks for proving my point.

After death is too late...be better be saved before our last breath...

At the throne..the redeemed go to Jesus first...for their rewards...then the lost are judged....we are separated

eleos1954 said:

Look at the verses closely .... not preaching to the "dead" as in dead in the grave. They are "dead" in their faith .... because they are not living according to God in the spirit.

1st Peter 4
5But they will have to give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6That is why the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged as men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

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Thank you for your response. The scripture I am referring to is 1 Peter 3:18-20. Please see post #47 if you wish to see my interpretation and then comment.