What does the bible teach about Christians and war?

Dave L

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In this new role does it say a Christian is never allowed to fight a war?
How can they? Paul says not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers. This rules out military and police involvement. Loving enemies can be judged as treason. Etc., etc.
 
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Daniel C

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How can they? Paul says not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers. This rules out military and police involvement. Loving enemies can be judged as treason. Etc., etc.


And this is the same Paul that said Romans 13:1 .That being the case, what happens if a government conscribes people into the military? You going to defy the authorities?

Well you either live with non-believers or you work towards screening them out in a non-violent method to create a Christ centred community. I favour this method as it helps to avoid a boiling point or all or nothing situation,like wars.

Living in a multicultural society but accepting and excluding ones responsibilities sounds like what the JW do, rather than be fully convicted in Christ and build a Christ centred community for his followers and keep out non-believers.
 
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Dave L

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And this is the same Paul that said Romans 13:1 .That being the case, what happens if a government conscribes people into the military? You going to defy the authorities?

Well you either live with non-believers or you work towards screening them out in a non-violent method to create a Christ centred community. I favour this method as it helps to avoid a boiling point or all or nothing situation,like wars.

Living in a multicultural society but accepting and excluding ones responsibilities sounds like what the JW do, rather than be fully convicted in Christ and build a Christ centred community for his followers and keep out non-believers.
How do you comply and follow Christ?
 
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Daniel C

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How do you comply and follow Christ?


You're a horrible debater Dave LOL. :)

Every time I make a point you just ignore it completely and move onto something else.

The Bible is authoritative Dave, God works through his word.
 
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Dave L

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You're a horrible debater Dave LOL. :)

Every time I make a point you just ignore it completely and move onto something else.

The Bible is authoritative Dave, God works through his word.
What's there to debate about loving enemies instead of killing them for money?
 
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Daniel C

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What's there to debate about loving enemies instead of killing them for money?


I think you just proved my point. At no point have I defended the idea of reckless wars for territory, only against oppressive religious rivals who seek to stamp out the light of Christ.

I also drew a distinction between a personal enemy and a combatant but this point has also been missed apparently.

Anyway, I don't think I have much more to say on the matter, maybe you want to have the last word.
 
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Dave L

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I think you just proved my point. At no point have I defended the idea of reckless wars for territory, only against oppressive religious rivals who seek to stamp out the light of Christ.

I also drew a distinction between a personal enemy and a combatant but this point has also been missed apparently.

Anyway, I don't think I have much more to say on the matter, maybe you want to have the last word.
It depends on who you put first, God or Caesar.
 
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RDKirk

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I think you just proved my point. At no point have I defended the idea of reckless wars for territory, only against oppressive religious rivals who seek to stamp out the light of Christ.

Haven't had one of those wars for quite some time, nor is one on the horizon.

Notice that the US, for instance, is aligned with Saudi Arabia against Iran--and it's much better to be a Christian in Iran than one in Saudi Arabia.

And I've been a Christian in Saudi Arabia. The compromises required by the US military of Christians was disgusting.
 
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Daniel C

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Haven't had one of those wars for quite some time, nor is one on the horizon.

Notice that the US, for instance, is aligned with Saudi Arabia against Iran--and it's much better to be a Christian in Iran than one in Saudi Arabia.

And I've been a Christian in Saudi Arabia. The compromises required by the US military of Christians was disgusting.


There is NOT one on the horizon? Well maybe but there probably is.

If an Islamic nation like Iran attacks Israel,the retaliation from Israel will cause a Islamic dog-piling on Israel and it will lead to a global war extending to all nations when Israels allies enter to deal with Islamic attackers and their allies. Also, Europe is undergoing a transitions where Muslims have been let in by the millions and continue to do so. This is not a healthy choice as Muslims have proven throughout the ages the inability to co-exist with Christians and indeed in this era subject our Christian brothers to extreme persecution. So it's almost inevitable that civil wars at some point will break out as the Muslim population increases within Christian nations. People who deny this are delusional.

Saudi Arabia is only friendly on the surface with the US because of strong business ties. This can be easily broken at anytime.
 
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RDKirk

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There is NOT one on the horizon? Well maybe but there probably is.

If an Islamic nation like Iran attacks Israel,the retaliation from Israel will cause a Islamic dog-piling on Israel and it will lead to a global war extending to all nations when Israels allies enter to deal with Islamic attackers and their allies. Also, Europe is undergoing a transitions where Muslims have been let in by the millions and continue to do so. This is not a healthy choice as Muslims have proven throughout the ages the inability to co-exist with Christians and indeed in this era subject our Christian brothers to extreme persecution. So it's almost inevitable that civil wars at some point will break out as the Muslim population increases within Christian nations. People who deny this are delusional.

The delusion is that it's about religion. Religion is what the powerful uses to rouse the rabble.

Follow the money. Look at who actually gets rich. All of Islamic terrorism in the US and Europe--all of it, every single act--is financed by Saudi Arabia and based on their Wahhabist radical idiology. If there is a civil war in Europe, Saudi Arabia is behind it.

Saudi Arabia is only friendly on the surface with the US because of strong business ties. This can be easily broken at anytime.

And yet, right now, the US is strolling into a war as Saudi Arabia's proxy...because of strong business ties, not because it's going to provide for the safety of Christians.
 
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RDKirk

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The US has been embroiled in continuous war in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2003, and then we can count the Persian Gulf war in 1990.

Why was the US there?

Because back in 1972, the Nixon Administration had detached the value of US dollar from the gold standard to allow it to float against other world currencies. But Nixon hedged his bet to retain the superiority of the dollar by an agreement with Saudi Arabia that the US would provide for Saudi Arabia's military defense as long as they accepted only US dollars for Saudi oil.

So any country that wants to buy Saudi oil must first buy US dollars to pay for it. Therefore the value of US dollars is artificially boosted on the world economy.

The reason the US rushed to Saudi Arabia in 1990 when Iraq invaded Kuwait is because US intelligence actually believed the Iraqis intended to roll all the way through tiny Kuwait on into Saudi Arabia. Payback for the petrodollar deal.

The US retained military forces in Saudia Arabia to continue to protect them from Iraq. That aroused the ire of Osama bin Laden, who constantly demanded that the US remove its military from the Islamic holy land. The first attack (which failed) on the World Trade Center in 1993 was bin Laden's first warning, with bin Laden saying, "Get your troops out of our holy land." The attacks on the USS Cole and American Air Force troops housed in Khobar Towers were also warnings--Bin Laden said so, repeating, "Get your troops out of our holy land."

(Incidentally, a few weeks earlier, and I would have been in Khobar Towers when that bomb went off. As it was, one of my own troops was awarded a Purple Heart from it.)

Why were US troops in Saudi Arabia? To protect Christians? No, we were there to protect money. Protecting money led to the US invasion of Iraq--which caused incredible misery to Iraqi Christians. Why are US forces in Afghanistan? To protect money (or because the US was so intent on protecting money that it stupidly remained in Saudi Arabia to the danger of its own citizens).

And this goes to a point that Dave L made: When you have sworn an oath of enlistment or commission into the US armed forces, you don't get to decide which deployments you'll accept according to your own morality. You have made yourself their slave.

And it's extremely unlikely you'll be deployed in this world to defend Christians.
 
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Daniel C

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The US has been embroiled in continuous war in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2003, and then we can count the Persian Gulf war in 1990.

Why was the US there?

Because back in 1972, the Nixon Administration had detached the value of US dollar from the gold standard to allow it to float against other world currencies. But Nixon hedged his bet to retain the superiority of the dollar by an agreement with Saudi Arabia that the US would provide for Saudi Arabia's military defense as long as they accepted only US dollars for Saudi oil.

So any country that wants to buy Saudi oil must first buy US dollars to pay for it. Therefore the value of US dollars is artificially boosted on the world economy.

The reason the US rushed to Saudi Arabia in 1990 when Iraq invaded Kuwait is because US intelligence actually believed the Iraqis intended to roll all the way through tiny Kuwait on into Saudi Arabia. Payback for the petrodollar deal.

The US retained military forces in Saudia Arabia to continue to protect them from Iraq. That aroused the ire of Osama bin Laden, who constantly demanded that the US remove its military from the Islamic holy land. The first attack (which failed) on the World Trade Center in 1993 was bin Laden's first warning, with bin Laden saying, "Get your troops out of our holy land." The attacks on the USS Cole and American Air Force troops housed in Khobar Towers were also warnings--Bin Laden said so, repeating, "Get your troops out of our holy land."

(Incidentally, a few weeks earlier, and I would have been in Khobar Towers when that bomb went off. As it was, one of my own troops was awarded a Purple Heart from it.)

Why were US troops in Saudi Arabia? To protect Christians? No, we were there to protect money. Protecting money led to the US invasion of Iraq--which caused incredible misery to Iraqi Christians. Why are US forces in Afghanistan? To protect money (or because the US was so intent on protecting money that it stupidly remained in Saudi Arabia to the danger of its own citizens).

And this goes to a point that Dave L made: When you have sworn an oath of enlistment or commission into the US armed forces, you don't get to decide which deployments you'll accept according to your own morality. You have made yourself their slave.

And it's extremely unlikely you'll be deployed in this world to defend Christians.


Congratulations Kirk, you've mentioned a few incidents with Islam spanning the last 40 years. Islam has existed for 1400 years,so perhaps your vision on this is a little short sighted. Try looking up some history.
 
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RDKirk

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Congratulations Kirk, you've mentioned a few incidents with Islam spanning the last 40 years. Islam has existed for 1400 years,so perhaps your vision on this is a little short sighted. Try looking up some history.

We don't live 1400 years ago. We live today and we're talking about what Christians should be doing today.

No country today is fighting for Christianity. If the US were fighting for Christianity, the last 50 years would have been very different.

EDIT added:

In the last couple of years, American Air Force units have been actively involved in the Saudi military activity in Yemen. American Air Force tankers have been refueling Saudi fighters over Yemen and American drone operators based in Nevada have been conducting drone air strikes--with civilian noncombatant casualties--against Yemeni rebels.

This is part of the 1400-year-long Sunni/Shiite war (which you seem not to notice). The US is committing American forces to enable Saudi Arabia to become the undisputed leader of world Islam, even though Saudi Arabia is the primary banker for anti-Christian forces worldwide.

So Christians in the military are killing Shiite Muslims not to protect Christians (because the Shiites are not threatening Christians), but to enable Sunni Muslims to kill more Christians for the short-term goal of certain Americans making more money.

Strategically, it would make more sense for America in general to keep Saudi Arabia locked in combat with Iran, rather than helping Saudi Arabia defeat Iran. But...America protects money, not Christians. Not even Americans.

Does it really make sense to you for Christians to be involved in that?
 
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grandvizier1006

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Haven't had one of those wars for quite some time, nor is one on the horizon.

Notice that the US, for instance, is aligned with Saudi Arabia against Iran--and it's much better to be a Christian in Iran than one in Saudi Arabia.

And I've been a Christian in Saudi Arabia. The compromises required by the US military of Christians was disgusting.
From what I understand, Iran is also not a good place to be a Christian. Many members of house churches get arrested. But it is, at least on paper, legal there. Knowing that the Islamic Republic is slightly more lenient than the Islamic Kingdom, I wish we didn't have to ally with Saudi Arabia for the sake of oil.

What "compromises" did they make you do in Saudi Arabia?
 
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RDKirk

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From what I understand, Iran is also not a good place to be a Christian. Many members of house churches get arrested. But it is, at least on paper, legal there. Knowing that the Islamic Republic is slightly more lenient than the Islamic Kingdom, I wish we didn't have to ally with Saudi Arabia for the sake of oil.

What "compromises" did they make you do in Saudi Arabia?

Mostly it had to do with shaming our military women.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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And it's extremely unlikely you'll be deployed in this world to defend Christians.
As far as I know, all the countries will /do/ harass, arrest, beat, imprison, and kill "Christians" when it suits the ones in power in that country. The leaders (any exceptions?) of all the nations, as written in Scripture, have (already, for centuries) committed <spiritual> fornication with the beast, and have no love for Jesus, nor for Jesus' followers.
 
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Theophilus2019

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Sometimes war is necessary and is right for Christians to participate in. The Bible says “do not kill” as the general principle that killing is wrong. Then, like most legislation, it sets out the specific circumstances in which this general principle may be disobeyed. From the OT, in some cases, war appears to be one of those specific circumstances. Note how David in the Psalms says how God trains his hands for war. Note how in the Gospels John the Baptist’s doesn’t tell soldiers to leave the Roman army, but to be satisfied with their pay. Pacifism is not a Christian fundamental.
 
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