Is it ok to lie in this case?

CamillaBegumm

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Mmmm... Not really enough detail to give an informed comment. A lot hinges on the the nature of the offence towards the family and how serious it really was... You do not indicate that there has been any arrest.
Could I suggest that you choose say 3 persons who have responded PM them as a group and disclose more detail... you may get a better response.

I would message people a link to the news article, but I dont have enough posts or likes to send pms. If anyone really cares enough you can email me at cazzarks@gmail.com and I'll link you to the news article which better explains the situation.
 
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Yennora

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Just a quick advice that is not going to answer your question on whether lying is good or bad.

Make sure that the person is safe to deal with as this matters the most. The person can be an offender (apart from the family's case). Offenders usually play on the emotional factor of their victims in the beginning, and then they start attacking. The situation seems to be really complex and hard to judge. But again, care more about yourself if the person is a trouble seeker. Be cautious, keep an open eye.

The person doesn't need you to repent nor do they need a pastor. The person needs Christ. Repentance is a personal choice and morality is deeply rooted inside our hearts. The person seems to be mature enough to know the difference between right and wrong.

Again, care more about your safety. (Also don't let the priest control your actions, he has no right to, if the church will threaten you then you really need to avoid that church on the long run)

Priests can give advice. But when they get controlling then they are not priests anymore, Pharisees is the right word for it. When it comes to your roommates, try to be more silent and self-contained around them until you get the chance to escape that toxic environment.
 
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Cis.jd

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You need to give some details as to what this person exactly did. The fact that you implied that the police had to get involved clues in that it is likely illegal what this person did.

It's impossible to give good advice not knowing the exact circumstance.
 
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JAM2b

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We are always supposed to tell the truth, but that doesn't mean everyone has to know everything. It can be very difficult to be honest when there is fear involved. The solution to that is to address the source of your fear.

I agree with securing your safety when it come to dealing with this person. But I also know that Jesus commanded us to love our enemies. If you are safe, then do what the Lord leads you to do.

I would never want to be part of a church like the one you describe. I'd seriously seek a different body of believers. A pastor should never take sides like that. If this person make the church an unsafe place, it is ok to keep him from being there, but it is not ok to prevent people from reaching out or to block someone who could be legitimately seeking help and repentance. Ministers should love and support those of the flock who have made bad choices and help them be restored, in a safe and appropriate way.

People should not use spiritual and emotional manipulation to control the decisions of others. I believe this body of believers is in great error in how they are dealing with the situation.
 
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CamillaBegumm

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You need to give some details as to what this person exactly did. The fact that you implied that the police had to get involved clues in that it is likely illegal what this person did.

It's impossible to give good advice not knowing the exact circumstance.

Email me at cazzarks@gmail.com and I’ll send you a link to the news story
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Hey so kinda a long story....
Basically somone at my church caused deep emotional pain to a family that also goes. I won’t go into detail, but like it’s at the point where the police have gotten involved and there have been hearings. This person wants to go away to another state but they can’t, due to what the court decided. Shortly after it happened the pastors got together and asked the church to avoid this person at all cost given the nature of the situation and to maintain the body togetherness or however it’s called.

For some reason this person has reached out to me for support in this. They’re on their own with no friends or job, and stuck in Pennsylvania until their probation ends. I honestly want out of this situation as much as possible but I can’t say no to someone in this situation. I have interacted with this person a few times, by their request to offer them emotional support. They think I’m the only one from church who doesn’t hate them. While I’ve tried to get them to reach out to other people besides me, it’s no use. Recently they cutoff all ties with the pastor of our church, because the family they offended was using our pastor to track them.

It was kinda known that I was in sort of contact with this person, although I didn’t want to be. The family asked me to stop talking to them which I said that I don’t hang out with this person I just steer them in the right direction towards repentance.
Our pastor also expressed the seriousness of the situation where if I was to interact with this person again I would be excommunicated from the church.
This was 3 weeks ago and a few days back this person asked me if I would meet them somewhere for food to just talk through some stuff. Which I figured wouldn’t be that big a deal, although I had been asked not to spend anytime with them. I thought this would be when I would finally say that they needed to find some friends from outside the church because I put a lot at risk by interacting with them, but to my luck, while we were walking out, we passed somone from the family that they offended.
Immediately they called the pastoral leadership and my family that also goes to the church, and I was put under intense heat. I didn’t know what to do when I got home, but I didn’t want to be put under the scrutiny of my church. So I called my pastor and said that I was out downtown working, which is where I work, and when I was done my shift I passed by this person on the street and they invited me to eat with them real quick cause we just happened to be there. I said that we didn’t plan it, it was a situation that I couldn’t rly avoid, or at least knew how to. It was a lie, I knowingly lied, but it got me out of being put in the same boat as the person who asked me for support sometimes. All parties believe me as far as I know, but I lied and I regret it very much. Normally I wouldn’t go on a forum like this, but as you can see, I don’t really have a party to go to. I made it clear after our meeting to this person that we can’t interact anymore, it hurts my relationship with so many people, but I hate the fact that I lied and I just don’t know what to do. I’ve prayed and asked God, studied the Bible, and I know I should tell the truth, but I’m already in deep, and I could actually be kicked out. I know it must sound like a cult or something, but what this person did, really is something worth these threats.

I just need prayer and encouragement and advice in this situation, because I have no one to talk to about this.
Sounds like everyone is wrong in this situation, lots of sin. However, there is always the Christian way. Forgiveness. Why do you think Jesus Christ of Nazareth stressed forgiveness so much? The act of not forgiving creates a cesspool of other sins as you can see unfolding right before your eyes.
Until you are willing to share that you have forgiven this person to your church, sin will continue. As far as you lying, this is just the outcome of the original sin of no forgiveness by your congregation which in turn caused you to sin. This can be fixed however, it may not be to your satisfaction or the others but it will be pleasing to the Father.
Blessings
 
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Ronald

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Hey so kinda a long story....
Basically somone at my church caused deep emotional pain to a family that also goes. I won’t go into detail, but like it’s at the point where the police have gotten involved and there have been hearings. This person wants to go away to another state but they can’t, due to what the court decided. Shortly after it happened the pastors got together and asked the church to avoid this person at all cost given the nature of the situation and to maintain the body togetherness or however it’s called.

For some reason this person has reached out to me for support in this. They’re on their own with no friends or job, and stuck in Pennsylvania until their probation ends. I honestly want out of this situation as much as possible but I can’t say no to someone in this situation. I have interacted with this person a few times, by their request to offer them emotional support. They think I’m the only one from church who doesn’t hate them. While I’ve tried to get them to reach out to other people besides me, it’s no use. Recently they cutoff all ties with the pastor of our church, because the family they offended was using our pastor to track them.

It was kinda known that I was in sort of contact with this person, although I didn’t want to be. The family asked me to stop talking to them which I said that I don’t hang out with this person I just steer them in the right direction towards repentance.
Our pastor also expressed the seriousness of the situation where if I was to interact with this person again I would be excommunicated from the church.
This was 3 weeks ago and a few days back this person asked me if I would meet them somewhere for food to just talk through some stuff. Which I figured wouldn’t be that big a deal, although I had been asked not to spend anytime with them. I thought this would be when I would finally say that they needed to find some friends from outside the church because I put a lot at risk by interacting with them, but to my luck, while we were walking out, we passed somone from the family that they offended.
Immediately they called the pastoral leadership and my family that also goes to the church, and I was put under intense heat. I didn’t know what to do when I got home, but I didn’t want to be put under the scrutiny of my church. So I called my pastor and said that I was out downtown working, which is where I work, and when I was done my shift I passed by this person on the street and they invited me to eat with them real quick cause we just happened to be there. I said that we didn’t plan it, it was a situation that I couldn’t rly avoid, or at least knew how to. It was a lie, I knowingly lied, but it got me out of being put in the same boat as the person who asked me for support sometimes. All parties believe me as far as I know, but I lied and I regret it very much. Normally I wouldn’t go on a forum like this, but as you can see, I don’t really have a party to go to. I made it clear after our meeting to this person that we can’t interact anymore, it hurts my relationship with so many people, but I hate the fact that I lied and I just don’t know what to do. I’ve prayed and asked God, studied the Bible, and I know I should tell the truth, but I’m already in deep, and I could actually be kicked out. I know it must sound like a cult or something, but what this person did, really is something worth these threats.

I just need prayer and encouragement and advice in this situation, because I have no one to talk to about this.

Some people are not really Christians that attend church. There are tares among the wheat. They will cause trouble and bring people down with them.
An incident similar to this happened in my church 20 years ago - not even a law breaking incident though. The women was rebellious and reckless, influencing others in the Church, corrupting the flock. Our loving Pastor was patient, yet firm in his giving direction to her. Still she was out of control; so there comes a time when after good counsel doesn't work, the bad apple must be given the boot.
This is normal for a Pastor to protect the sheep when a wolf comes in. And so direct instructions are then given to the congregation to ostrisize this person - prohibit any contact with them for your own protection.
Now, if you disobey your pastor (who is righteous and led by the Spirit in his actions and words), you are quenching the Holy Spirit. This person already created a situation were you lied. They already corrupted your behavior. Take this seriously. The message was given directly to them - you didn't have to repeat it as if that would make any difference to them. You got caught and THIS WAS NO COINCIDENCE! THIS WAS GOD CHASTISING YOU. What if something more serious happened when you were with this person and you were part of It?
Satan weaves a web of lies, deceit and traps for us to get caught in. For all we know, this person works for him. If not, then this severe discipline is a time out for them to realize their error and hopefully they will repent and later return for forgiveness and mercy.
 
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hedrick

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Lies are justified when they are the only way to save a life or prevent great damage. This situation is approaching that. But we don't normally expect lies to be necessary in dealing with our church leaders. It seems to me that if you have to lie to your pastor, there's a problem with the church.
 
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~Zao~

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Lies are justified when they are the only way to save a life or prevent great damage. This situation is approaching that. But we don't normally expect lies to be necessary in dealing with our church leaders. It seems to me that if you have to lie to your pastor, there's a problem with the church.
Lies are a product of satan. Since when have lies ever been justifiable :doh:
 
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The Faceless

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Lies are a product of satan. Since when have lies ever been justifiable :doh:
So you definitely would have told the Nazis where the Jewish family was hiding under your floorboards, huh? Good to know.
 
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ChicanaRose

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I intentionally left it vague because the family involved hired a private investigator to find anything related to this guy.

I am wondering if they think that this man will use you to get access to them, and they fear for their safety.

In post #15 you indicated that your church provides you with housing.

Can you think about how you would feel if you were in their shoes? If you had a nice home and took someone in, and found out that your tenant is talking to a person who caused you harm, would you feel safe?

Of course, I don't agree with their method of control, threatening, stalking, and spying. So you may want to eventually leave. But while you are living under their roof, you may not want to do things that would jeopardize the safety of their property and people who live there.

I cannot get involved, but will pray for you.
 
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JAM2b

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I believe that this person is not without resources, and that they can find the spiritual guidance and acceptance that they need without relying on you. If you have expressed a general love and forgiveness to this person, then that is all you are responsible for. If you are contacted again, then refer this person to a same gendered peer that they can get support and fellowship from. Sometimes losing friends is part of natural consequences to behavior, but that does not mean they can't make new friends. Clinging to an old group or an old acquaintance in an unhealthy, and possibly inappropriate, way is not productive for them. If there truly is no one local, then online friendships can be sufficient for a time. For this person it is time for fresh start and new people with new boundaries.

In a nutshell, both this person and your church is in error. The pastor should secure some spiritual support for this person, even if it is from a source outside your church, and this person should respect appropriate boundaries.

But, also, keep in mind that your church has put an unfair ultimatum on you and other members. Their concern is understandable, but as an adult, no one should be threatened in the way you have been in order to maintain control. This is spiritual abuse. I think you need to be seeking other arrangements for yourself, and look for another place to worship. When you are able to leave, tell them why so that they can consider their actions.
 
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Sam91

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There is the duty to protect the victim, so I don't criticise the church. Putting someone out of the Church may cause the offender to repent but often won't.

OP if you are female (your profile doesn't say) it probably isn't proper (or safe) for you to be counselling him.
 
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ChicanaRose

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but my church has really cheap housing, that I absolutely cannot lose until I finish college. The people I live with often report to elders and pastors on stuff we do and say.

Then that's all the more reason to focus on getting yourself out of an unhealthy situation rather than on this guy.
 
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We hear only one side of the store. One has to stop right at the start. No.. its never ok to lie. There is no nice lie.. white lie..good lie.
so you would have told the nazis where the Jews were . Instead of lying and saying you didn’t know . Lying to an oppressor to protect innocents is ok in my book. The first time you have to do it is the last time you’ll think it’s a major problem.whe I was a teen , I had to lie to my father to protect my sister from his sadism
 
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