Maundy Thursday

nonaeroterraqueous said:

Every effective lie has an element of truth. An effective bear will contain elements of a fish. If we delve into the mouth of the devourer and find pieces of truth, it is because the truth fuels that monster, which in turn seeks to destroy that truth. The deceiver uses truth to destroy that very truth, in the same way that Satan used the word of God to try to destroy God's word made flesh when he tempted Christ.

If you were to set a trap to catch a Christian, what would you bait it with?

Click to expand...

Yes! Every deception has an element of truth, very well put brother!

Apologetic_Warrior said:

I would come at the Christian as a beautiful Angel of light, I would be so subtle, so crafty, most would never suspect. I would shine so brilliantly they would be blinded to the truth, captured like deer in headlights, only after it is too late, most to be brought down with me like lambs to the slaughter. I would slowly and progressively ever so slightly twist and turn even changing tradition and laws. I would become the most powerful religious force on earth, with myself set up as her early King. She would be entranced by all the works of my hands throughout the ages, ever my faithful servant to do my bidding. Only a relatively small remnant of these will remain, but even out of these shall I use to draw more unto me. - Screwtape

Click to expand...

This is free will works religion.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 (KJV) 13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Colossians 2:20-23 (KJV) 20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Jonaitis said:

We are witnessing levels IMO within the Church:

First wave, same sex marriage. A separation of conservative from liberal "Christians." Second wave, social justice. This is becoming a dividing issue within real conservative churches (including Reformed). What is the third and fourth wave? They are coming like a tidal wave to sweep us off our feet until there are only few left who will hold on strong to certain values and truths.

Click to expand...

So very much could be said about Satan's role in same sex marriage, the transgender confusion, and abortion. The "harlot of Babylon" comes to mind, Romans Chapter 1 and self-deception comes to mind, and the "strong delusion" of 2 Thessalonians 2:11 comes to mind. Over the past decade it has greatly become increasingly more difficult for the conservative Christian to find a Bible believing Church. These waves of deception have and are sweeping through every sect and denomination of Christianity in the West. I see no end in sight, politics, money, and power are the rule, the end game.

It is also a reason I have taken it upon myself to become more politically aware and active in online discussions. If I can say or do anything to help in whatever small way to slow down the tsunami wave, I will.

From Wikipedia, a current statistic:

It's unbelievable to me but infanticide is being passed through several states, like New York:

Once a Catholic always a Catholic? That's what I've read.

I am not suggesting all Catholics are pro-choice or pro-abortion, we have a number of pro-life Catholics who post here on CF, but if I were to research the historical statistics of Democrat voting Catholics, I think the numbers would show me, that whatever the Catholic Church has said about abortion, does not necessarily translate into conservative voting statistics, I think historically 50%+ of Catholics have and do vote Democrat, the party of pro-choice, under the guise of women's "rights".

My dad has long had this saying "the proof is in the pudding", kind of a funny way of talking about proof, but the point is taken.

JM said:

Hey folks, I didn't mean to shock anyone. I've been making posts to my blog and on CF about me dabbling in traditional practices (Anglican mostly) for a while now. All I can say is that I was wrong about Catholicism and I'm working it out.

Please keep me in your prayers.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

PS: If you look on my blog I have changed the status on over 2,000 posts to private until I sort things out.

Click to expand...

I would be interested in knowing in what way you were wrong about Catholicism. I hope wherever your journey takes you, you will avoid man made doctrine and seek the truth according to the Word of God.
Your brother in Christ.

JM, I've followed your contributions on this forum for 15 years..after careful exegesis of scripture what changed your mind?

JustAsIam77 said:

How can someone go from full throttle Reformed for 15 years to I don't know anymore?

Click to expand...

Can't believe I missed this before. But what you describe is more or less my journey to the Catholic Church. But elaborating upon that is probably against this forum's rules. Point is that it can happen.

The Roman Catholic church is full of heresy, why not just make up what we want to add to the Word of God like the RCC has done. Once we question the inerrancy of scripture it's a slippery slope indeed.

One of the interesting things about the journey of faith is when we are standing next to people on 'our team' and realise that we have much in common with (some) people on the other team. Sometimes we live in a juxtaposition, sometimes we get to a position where integrity demands we acknowledge the reality that we have moved deeply enough to change teams.

I don't think we are helped by bagging each other out, but rather more helped by listening to one another in a spirit of love and faith, for each of us has gleaned something of the truth of the gospel.


@JM I wish you strength for the journey, wherever it leads, with integrity, looking unto Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith.

For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part; but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end.

Philip_B said:

One of the interesting things about the journey of faith is when we are standing next to people on 'our team' and realise that we have much in common with (some) people on the other team.

Click to expand...

Your journey must take you down a shinier path than mine. I usually find myself standing next to people on "my team," and find out that they aren't on my team at all. All week, I've been struggling with the concept of "We." I'm not sure it's a real thing.

The more I learn about the "other team," the less I find I have in common with them. Catholicism was a closer relative when I did not understand it.

JM said:

Brother, I’m sorry to hear you are questioning inerrancy, I will pray for you. Traditional churches do not deny inerrancy, what they often deny is the ability and authority of the layman to be their own personal pope.



Very true. Scripture and church history is filled with examples.



That happens as well.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

Click to expand...

Brother you don't need to pray for me, I don't question the inerrancy of scripture read my post. Do you deny the man made doctrine of the RCC? Is the pope infallible? What traditional church do you identify with now?

JM said:

Brother, I’m sorry to hear you are questioning inerrancy, I will pray for you. Traditional churches do not deny inerrancy, what they often deny is the ability and authority of the layman to be their own personal pope.



Very true. Scripture and church history is filled with examples.



That happens as well.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

Click to expand...

I think that you have left out the main ingredient, the Spirit of God. It is He who calls and equips men to know and preach the truth of the Bible.

Do you now believe that the Magistirum has the final authority on the Scriptures?

The Lord Jesus is able to use whatever means He sees fit to use to bring about His purposes. Whether it be the RCC to bring about the Scriptures as we have them or an ass to prophesy. Just because He used dead sinners and sometimes heretics to forge His purpose ahead doesn’t mean that the heretics are right.

Don’t give in to your natural need for works religion. That is what all the pomp and circumstance is. It a formal way to appease our base and wicked desire for us to have something to do. Has it ever brought you lasting peace before? Or did it satisfy your baser need to do works?

You know the Scriptures as well as I do and yes they are a product of men being used by the Spirit to bring them about. But can you honestly justify all the heresies that exist in the RCC or Eastern Church in order to appease your conscience?

I am, have been and will continue to pray the Spirit give you light and peace my brother.

Who will you follow men or the Spirit of God? Love you.

JM said:

Traditional churches do not deny inerrancy, what they often deny is the ability and authority of the layman to be their own personal pope.

Click to expand...

They don't expressly deny inerrancy, but when, as in the numerous cases in the Catholic church, scripture directly contradicts their tradition, they "interpret" scripture according to their tradition. This interpretation is no interpretation when it overrides the clear meaning of scripture. What it means is that they hold tradition as the higher of the two standards. In other words, when scripture clearly says that they are wrong, they ignore it and continue doing what they were already doing. This is not the treatment one gives to something regarded as inerrant.

Contrary to the Catholic argument, we also do not regard the layman as having the authority to be his own personal pope. They may find this hard to believe, and, it would appear that you are having difficulty, also. The contention is not whether the layman has the authority to be his own pope, but, rather, we argue that the pope has no authority to be a pope. We have one mediator, who is Christ, and we have one guide and comforter, who is the Holy Spirit. All men are laymen. Some are teachers. Some are preachers. We have much to learn from each other. None are pope.

This miter-hatted figure who proposes to be a mediator between us and God, who would interpret plain truths to mean what they clearly do not mean is a man who bears much fruit, and this fruit does not resemble holiness. The abuses of the Catholic patriarchy are numerous and span all of history. When our people questioned him, we were killed. One must ask who in their right mind would regard this kind of person, this regime, this system as qualified to interpret scripture against our own senses? I, for one, don't need to be told that I am not qualified to be a pope. I rather hope that I never qualify.

JM said:

The problem, simply stated, how did the church function before canon was determined and wide spread?

Click to expand...

From the beginning to today, it's always been the leading of the Spirit of God. The canon originated from the mind and Spirit of God, it is God's canon, his hand in history. Christ the head of the Church is the head of the canon. Without the head, what can the body do but nothing? Only walking by faith in the Spirit has the Church ever functioned. Through reading Paul's letters, it becomes clear the Church struggled to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh from the earliest of New Testament times. However it is God, through the sovereign grace and mercy of His providence of the leading of the Spirit in God's people who faithfully preserved and maintained the oral and written Word of God throughout history.

The upper room, the Spirit of God raining down on his people is a key point and time for the New Testament Church.

As to before, this Psalm of David comes to mind...

Psalms 51

1 Have mercy on me, O God,
according to your steadfast love;
according to your abundant mercy
blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity,
and cleanse me from my sin!
3 For I know my transgressions,
and my sin is ever before me.
4 Against you, you only, have I sinned
and done what is evil in your sight,
so that you may be justified in your words
and blameless in your judgment.
5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6 Behold, you delight in truth in the inward being,
and you teach me wisdom in the secret heart.
7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;
wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8 Let me hear joy and gladness;
let the bones that you have broken rejoice.
9 Hide your face from my sins,
and blot out all my iniquities.
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God,
and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from your presence,
and take not your Holy Spirit from me.
12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation,
and uphold me with a willing spirit.

Apologetic_Warrior said:

From the beginning to today, it's always been the leading of the Spirit of God. The canon originated from the mind and Spirit of God, it is God's canon, his hand in history. Christ the head of the Church is the head of the canon. Without the head, what can the body do but nothing? Only walking by faith in the Spirit has the Church ever functioned. Through reading Paul's letters, it becomes clear the Church struggled to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh from the earliest of New Testament times. However it is God, through the sovereign grace and mercy of His providence of the leading of the Spirit in God's people who faithfully preserved and maintained the oral and written Word of God throughout history.

Click to expand...

With respect, I'm not sure you grasp the magnitude of the admission you made in the above post.