God and Human Beings

What do you mean by "thinking God's way"? That itself seems open to much debate since many people disagree with what God wants or desires.

Also what do you mean by thinking being compatible with something? Are you asking if there is a philosophy that seems to govern God's way of thinking?

Scott (Quath)

Yesterday at 10:45 AM Dr Andrew said this in Post #1 Can thinking God's way ever be compatible with philosophy, the thoughts of human beings? Dr Andrew

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It's quite clear from Scripture that the answer is "No".

"For my thoughts are NOT your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.  For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts" (Isa. 55:8-9).

God's Plan of Salvation cannot be understood or explained with human reasoning. However, it can be accepted by simple faith, which is the hardest thing to find in an adult human being.

Today at 03:42 PM Ezra said this in Post #4
God's Plan of Salvation cannot be understood or explained with human reasoning. However, it can be accepted by simple faith, which is the hardest thing to find in an adult human being.

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That is because it is in competition with every other "plan of salvation" out there.  By faith, all religions are equal.

However, the best I can make out of God's philosophy is that it is similar to someone playing a game of "The Sims."  You can kill them, help them, play with them and leave them.  After all they are just pixels in a computer and of much lower value than a human.  That is the way that God treats humanity.

Scott (Quath)

I'm trying to figure out what you really are asking...I mean, do we any of us really know what God is thinking? How could our finite minds 'think' like an infinite God?

God has no real reason for momentary thought, in my opinion. He does not see an action, give X amount of time of contemplation over it, and then perform an action, even if He isn't in time, which seems the superior philospohical view these days. If God satisfied this description, He would not be a necessary being - He have potentiality - He would thus need a cause as well. As far as I can see, scripture, when speaking of God's thoughts, refers to meditation, of which is on His creation. This is an expression of His vast knowledge of the world, and not necessarily a moment to moment understanding of it.

We aren't Gods. We shouldn't try to be. Gods think as Gods think.

I think, personally, it's a difficult enough task to get humans to think to begin with much less trying to get them to think like Gods. We should be happy when humans think, even if they're "only" thinking as they are supposed to, being human.

Yes God's way can be compatible with mankinds thinking, because mankinds thinking is somewhat rooted in God's ways.

Personally, the anti-intellectualism often found in the modern evangelical church is to me its most frustrating feature. I think that rejection of philosophy and science amongst Christians has resulted in unfortunate backlash from intellectuals, a group of people often demonized as relying too much on the "wisdom of man" while the anti-intellectuals insist that they have the "wisdom of God," but are generally unable to defend it as such. Of course, there are a good number of Christian intellectuals as well and I'm sure there are Christian subcultures that respect intellectualism. Sadly, that cannot be said of the subculture in which I exist.

20th March 2003 at 04:45 AM Dr Andrew said this in Post #1

Can thinking God's way ever be compatible with philosophy, the thoughts of human beings?

Dr Andrew

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First of all, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "thinking God's way." If you mean thinking the same way that God thinks, as if we ourselves were God, then I think that this is an unanswerable question, but that philosophy is certainly a worthwhile human endeavor. If God is truly the definer of absolute truth, then his thoughts would be fundamentally different than ours in that he is truly capable of objective knowledge.

If you mean to ask whether philosophy conflicts with the way in which God desires us to think, then I would have emphatically answer "no." I think that we were created with the capacity of rational thought for a reason, and as the verse in my signature explains, I disagree with the idea that we should take our beliefs blindly without rational, philosophical thought.

It's quite clear from Scripture that the answer is "No".

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"A simple man believes anything, but a prudent man gives thought to his steps." -Proverbs 14:15

This seems to clearly endorse philosophy over simple acceptance of a world view.

-jon

Colossians 2:8

[8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Today at 07:55 PM Badfish said this in Post #11

Colossians 2:8

[8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

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The NIV reads as follows:

Colossians 2
8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

The difference between the NIV and the KJV is crucial, because the KJV seems to dismiss philosophy as a whole, whereas the NIV appears to be emphasizing critical thought, so that one is not "taken captive" by bad philosophy. This emphasis on critical thought and objective reasoning actually stresses the essence of philosophy itself--the love of wisdom rather than preconceived biases and irrational thought--and therefore reads as a polar opposite of the KJV.

So, I guess the question is simply "what does the Greek really say?" Perhaps someone who knows more about Greek than myself could help me out?

-jon

Well the NIV basically says the same thing, not to be deceived by hollow(incomplete?) philosophy. Because it is dependant solely on human theories derived using human tradition.

Col 2:8 (NASB)

See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

Paul is writing against any philosophy of life based only on human idea's and experiences.

Paul himself was a gifted philosopher, so he is not condemning philosophy, he is condemning teaching that credits humanity, not Christ, with being the answer to life's problems. That approach becomes a false religion, there are many manmade approaches to life's problems that totally disregard God.

In response to Dr. Andrew's post #1, many people have expressed their opinion that thinking God's way can not be compatible with Philosphy, the thoughts of human beings.

I suppose that it depends on the human being, his/her thoughts and that individuals philosphy, as well as the faith of the person answering the question. Noah was rightous man. Was Noah's philosophy and his belief that of God's? I really don't know, I would have to be God to know the answer to that question. In the Torah, in the Christian Bible, and in the Quran, there had been people who had become profits. Before they had been a profit to their respective faiths they were
(depending on your faith - I don't claim to be an expert in everyone's faith), people, ordinary people. Did they know how God thought? Again, I do not know that, for I would have need to be God, know the mind of God, or be omniscient to know the answer to that question.

Is Dr. Andrew such a person? I have no idea.

I had noticed that Dr. Andrew had not identified his faith as being Christian, Jew, Moslem or other. Suppose Dr. Andrew is a Unitarian Universalist? I am a Unitarian Universialist, and am quite confortable if you call me a Christian, a Jew, or any faith who believes in one God, the one creator of all. In my faith, people believe in God, by any name you choose to seek Him. In my faith we believe in morality, a repect for God, to obey His laws, and to obey and respect the laws of men. If you would welcome me in your house of God, I will pray with you. I am to respect your faith, and I believe that man is born with Dignity. I respect you as a person, you, your dignity. I am a Christian. I am a Jew. I am many other faiths too. If you pay to God, I pray with you. God is great. God is The Almighty. God is truth. All men are brothers, and most of us are confused, and seek to know the Wisdom of the Lord, so that we may not be confused. We seek Guidance.

All faiths, before they are defined by the cannons of their faith, are philosophy. God and faith are both beliefs. You cannot, as far as I know, speak to God as you could speak to a man or woman, nor touch God as if He were an object. We believe that there is a God, accepting it as fact. We believe that those utterances which the Lord has spake are His words, His Laws, His explanations, parables and insights that we may know the truth, that we may conduct our lives, control our conduct in thoughts and in deeds by reason of our own free will. Man questions the nature of the world, we question our existance; why we exist, for what reason, where, are we alone? We ask ourselves the, it would seem, universal questions about those things most of which our faiths answer, explain, exhault, condemn, hold as truths, require us to obey as law of how we are to behave, think, judge, and respect, and act towards God and man.

Quath said:

That is because it is in competition with every other "plan of salvation" out there.  By faith, all religions are equal.

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There is only ONE Truth. It is impossible to have two opposing truths. Therefore the Truth will always be in competition with lies, just like light is in competition with darkness.

Quath said:

However, the best I can make out of God's philosophy is that it is similar to someone playing a game of "The Sims."  You can kill them, help them, play with them and leave them.  After all they are just pixels in a computer and of much lower value than a human.  That is the way that God treats humanity.

Scott (Quath)

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Scott, you'd be much better off spending time with the real God, than a make believe world of games. You will get little, if any lasting value from man made entertainment. I am not trying to put you down, I know exactly where you are coming from. I speak from personal experience. I spend countless hours trying to entertain myself through man made efforts and although the time flew by while I was doing it and sometimes I even had fun, I ultimately received no benefit from it. In a manner of speaking, it was a waste of time. There is SO much more to life than games, movies and speculations and it is SOOO much better and infinitely more rewarding!