I'm curious what's the Bible say about Being a good person without Jesus?
And improving attitude like increasing patience without Jesus? I'm just curious how could I answer this..When I give my testimony to some people, they are telling me that they are improving their attitude without Jesus...and compare to Christians who have a fruit..
This is a really interesting and important matter you've brought up here! It is true that people can make significant changes in their lives without God. I know non-believers who have quit smoking, or given up alcohol, or developed greater personal discipline; others have become more patient, as you say, or more giving, or better listeners; others have pulled themselves out of poverty, or out of bad relationships, or out of dead-end living. Are such people good people? Well, my answer depends upon a couple of things: what is your standard of comparison? And what do you mean by "good"?
I only know what a crooked line is by comparing it to a straight one, right? So, how do I decide how good I've been? To what do I make a comparison to determine the goodness of my life? Well, God says that His standard of comparison is Himself. To such a perfect standard none of us measure up, none of us is good, or, rather,
good enough. Unlike God, we are all of us guilty of extremely dark and vile behavior. (See
Jeremiah 17:9 or
Matthew 15:19)
But often what an unbeliever means by "good" isn't what a Christian believer means. "Good," for unbelievers, doesn't usually mean "meeting God's standard." In this area, Christians can get a bit mixed up in their thinking. Mostly, thanks to a misunderstanding of the prophet Isaiah's words:
Isaiah 64:6
6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Taken in tandem with
Romans 3:10-18, many Christians think this verse says that all the moral (aka good) things they do prior to being saved are, actually, in God's eyes,
immoral. And they reason from this that anything that a person does who is not a believer is
always immoral. But this mistakes entirely what Isaiah meant by describing righteousness as "filthy rags." What Isaiah meant to communicate was that any righteous deed done apart from a desire to honor and please God has neither spiritual nor eternal value. That's it. He was NOT saying righteousness is unrighteousness. Putting such a construction upon his words is obviously nonsensical. But it is this thinking that prompts many Christians to say to non-Christians that all that they do however charitable, or life-saving, or life-improving, or moral are not good but are, in fact, just a bunch of "menstruous cloths" (which is what "filthy rags" is supposed to actually mean) by which they mean, immoral.
It is no wonder that non-believers look at Christians who say such things like they are nutcases. Is it really
immoral for a non-Christian to have given a starving child something to eat? Is it really
bad - immoral - for a non-Christian to have saved a man from drowning, or a woman from a burning building? Does God really put doing these things in the same category morally as murder and rape? Of course not. Do we ever read of prohibitions against caring for the sick, or giving to the poor in Scripture? No. Do we ever read in God's word that telling the truth, or being patient are actually immoral things? No. Never. So, it is quite irrational for Christians to say to non-Christians that they aren't ever morally good, that all the moral things they do God regards as immoral. Non-believers can be good, that is, moral, and often are. What is better, more accurate, to say to them is that
they don't meet God's perfect standard.
I would also point out to the non-Christian who says he can be good without God, that, unlike the goodness of a Christian, his goodness doesn't move him closer to God at all. In this regard, the goodness of a non-believer and believer differ profoundly. When I act "good," when I obey God and do what is righteous more and more, I deepen in my life with God and enjoy greater and greater fellowship with Him. This consequence of being good a non-believer can never enjoy.
), then it's time to work your way in to asking them about the Incarnation and the Cross. You know, questions like why they think God sent His only begotten Son here 1. as a man* and 2. knowing that He would die that horrible death on the Cross? (if what they believe about being "good" is true)
