When does one lose salvation?

GodsGrace101

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The point is....your mother will ALWAYS be your mother. If you have a dispute and fall away from her she will remain your mother. Your relationship may not be like a mother /child relationship bu she will still be your mother.

if you are saved and fall away from the faith you will remain saved but not reap the christian benefits a christian receives during their life. Prayer works and God acts. But if you don't pray in your fallen away state God won't answer.
Does the following sound to you as if all we lose are benefits in this life?

John 15:5-6
5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.


JESUS is saying the above. IF we DO NOT abide IN HIM.......that means to live with Him and follow Him as a disciple does...
we are THROWN AWAY as a branch and dry up and gathered and cast into the fire and burned.

I do believe it's VERY clear that Jesus is referring to the afterlife since we do not burn up in THIS life.
 
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BNR32FAN

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As I said the verse is refering to pseudoChristians. They do not abide in Christ.

So “pseudoChristiabs” are in Christ? They are attached to the vine? What about Jesus’ 11 faithful apostles? We’re they “pseudoChristians”? Jesus told them to abide in Him just two sentences later. Then He tells them the consequences of failing to abide in Him. Why, for what purpose? Was He warning them of something they are incapable of doing? No, of course not. The entire message was directed to His 11 faithful apostles. He only says the word “you” about 15 times in the first 10 verses.
 
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BNR32FAN

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What do you mean by falling away from your mother when she is not responsible for your salvation? The subject was falling away from salvation.

And why in the world would you want to become unborn with your mother....that's just gross and i have no idea the point of the comment?

You can fall away from God and He’s still your God whether you know it or like it or not. Still doesn’t mean that He won’t keep His promise and condemn you who turned away from Him to the lake of fire. God so loved the world and yet the world will not be saved.
 
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BNR32FAN

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True, once saved always saved but, the ones that just continue in sin and say that they good to go because, they are covered by the blood are probably only fooling themselves, for a saved person is grieved when they sin and will repent.
M-Bob

Brother Bob can you please explain John 15:2 or John 15:6? Both are referring to people who were in Christ.
 
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DM25

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You do realize the New Testament was written in Greek correct? I simply provided the definition of the actual Greek word that was used. That’s not biblical gymnastics it’s called bible study. By studying the actual Greek words that were translated to English you can actually learn a lot about the message the authors were trying to convey. Many of the inaccurate English translations are the very reason why people don’t understand the scriptures. For example the words believe, believer, and faith; the Greek definitions of these words all imply obedience, loyalty, faithfulness, trustworthiness, and fidelity. The English words do not include these qualities in their definition.
It still doesn't prove you can lose your salvation. Salvation is not of yourselves.
 
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GodsGrace101

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It still doesn't prove you can lose your salvation. Salvation is not of yourselves.
If salvation is not of ourselves we can never be sure if we ARE saved or not.

You can only be sure of your salvation if YOU choose to be saved.
 
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Mountainmanbob

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Brother Bob can you please explain John 15:2 or John 15:6? Both are referring to people who were in Christ.

I don't think those ones were truly born again.

Jesus said that he would not lose one that the father had given to him.

The Bible also speaks of some that thought they were good to go but, Jesus told them that he never knew them.

M-Bob
 
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DM25

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If salvation is not of ourselves we can never be sure if we ARE saved or not.

You can only be sure of your salvation if YOU choose to be saved.
It's a direct quote from scripture... Not my opinion.

Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"

Are you still denying now that salvation is not of ourselves? Scripture says it directly... /:
 
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BNR32FAN

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It still doesn't prove you can lose your salvation. Salvation is not of yourselves.

The point of that post wasn’t to show that a person could lose their salvation. It was to show how people are not fully understanding the scriptures. John 15:2 and John 15:6 are definitely referring to someone losing their salvation.
 
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Mountainmanbob

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You can only be sure of your salvation if YOU choose to be saved.

It is pretty apparent that Nicodemus of the Bible wished to be saved. When he asked Jesus what one must do? Jesus basically told Nicodemus that it was like the wind and he had no control over it.

When Paul was knocked off his donkey and blinded he was doing nothing good nor wanting anything of Christ. He was actually persecuting the children of God. Yet the Holy Spirit called him out of that against his will we could say.

M-Bob
 
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BNR32FAN

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I don't think those ones were truly born again.

Jesus said that he would not lose one that the father had given to him.

The Bible also speaks of some that thought they were good to go but, Jesus told them that he never knew them.

M-Bob

Jesus is the one who said The Father cuts off every branch in Me that does not bear fruit. They are in Christ. They are attached to the vine.
 
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GodsGrace101

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It's a direct quote from scripture... Not my opinion.

Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"

Are you still denying now that salvation is not of ourselves? Scripture says it directly... /:
I'm saying this in love DM, you really need to go to a bible study.

Anyone can tell you that we CANNOT SAVE OURSELVES. Which is what Ephesians 2:8 is saying.

We are saved by God's grace through the instrument of faith. There is theological debate as to what the gift is: Some believe it is the whole salvation package. Since theologians are not sure, I certainly am not getting into THAT debate.

However, we have to come to belief in God in order to be saved...it is then HIS grace that saves us through our faith.
John 3:16
 
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Kenny'sID

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You can fall away from God and He’s still your God whether you know it or like it or not. Still doesn’t mean that He won’t keep His promise and condemn you who turned away from Him to the lake of fire. God so loved the world and yet the world will not be saved.
\
Exactly, so I have no idea the point he was trying to make, but no surprise there.
 
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DM25

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The point of that post wasn’t to show that a person could lose their salvation. It was to show how people are not fully understanding the scriptures. John 15:2 and John 15:6 are definitely referring to someone losing their salvation.
Not at all dude... Please explain why you think that.
 
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DM25

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However, we have to come to belief in God in order to be saved...it is then HIS grace that saves us through our faith.
John 3:16
I know that. I was just trying to illustrate the point that if we could lose our salvation over something we do, it would no longer be not of ourselves as scripture says. He chooses us.
 
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GodsGrace101

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It is pretty apparent that Nicodemus of the Bible wished to be saved. When he asked Jesus what one must do? Jesus basically told Nicodemus that it was like the wind and he had no control over it.

When Paul was knocked off his donkey and blinded he was doing nothing good nor wanting anything of Christ. He was actually persecuting the children of God. Yet the Holy Spirit called him out of that against his will we could say.

M-Bob
So God PICKS who will be saved?

What does John 3:16 mean?
What did Jesus mean when He said He would draw ALL MEN unto Him from the cross?
John 12:32

Paul, the very man that was knocked off his horse, as you've stated, said this:

1 Timothy 2:4
[.....of our God and Savior...]
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


What do the above mean?
Did Paul not know what he was speaking about when he stated that God desires all men to be saved?
 
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DM25

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So God PICKS who will be saved?

What does John 3:16 mean?
What did Jesus mean when He said He would draw ALL MEN unto Him from the cross?
John 12:32

Paul, the very man that was knocked off his horse, as you've stated, said this:

1 Timothy 2:4
[.....of our God and Savior...]
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


What do the above mean?
Did Paul not know what he was speaking about when he stated that God desires all men to be saved?
No no no that's an extreme form of Calvinism. But just read the verse below. He draws all men to him.

John 15:6: "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you"
 
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Mountainmanbob

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Jesus is the one who said The Father cuts off every branch in Me that does not bear fruit. They are in Christ. They are attached to the vine.

Sounds like being saved by works to me?
M-Bob
 
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GodsGrace101

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I know that. I was just trying to illustrate the point that if we could lose our salvation over something we do, it would no longer be not of ourselves as scripture says. He chooses us.
Think of it this way:

If faith is what saves us....
then we have to have faith to remain saved.

If we stop having faith...will we still be saved?
Without faith we are lost....

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!
 
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