The Loaded Question (Philippians 2:13)

-57 said:

Yikes..a thought twister.

If I sin my salvation isn't in jeopardy. My relationship with the lord my develope problems.

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Come now which is it you are saying ...
Its your thoughts that are twisting
You present me with a line that your future sins are forgiven ..then you tell me its not ok to sin in the future...
Which is it..?. Why is it not ok to sin in the future if those sins are already forgiven ?
What are you saying..its an apparant contradiction.
Plus.. John says if you continue to practice ( live in ) sin your not of God...
So if you keep on knowingly sinning...your salvation is already lost

Grip Docility said:

Phil... no. Physical Castration and the Circumcision of the heart (Ephesians 1:13) are
Wait for it.....
“Apples” and Oranges...

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Perhaps it doesn't match up with some, but my actual death, burial, and resurrection with Christ DID happen when I was baptized into Christ and into His death, burial and resurrection. (Rom 6:3-7)
Thanks be to God!

-57 said:

Yikes..a thought twister.

If I sin my salvation isn't in jeopardy. My relationship with the lord my develope problems.

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I think if one serves something besides God, that Jesus is not their Lord.
Jesus did say that no man can serve two masters. He will hate the one and hold to the other. (Matt 6:24)

Grip Docility said:

I agree with your premise about Peter. Well studied!

I disagree that Peters walk is any different than any other Christians, in that we fail Him, though HE NEVER Fails us.

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Your impression of the walk of Christians opens a can of worms I think the "mods" won't tolerate.
Needless to say, my "impression" is different.

Alithis said:

There are many chaprers in which it is explained.. But you have to read past selective sentances.

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So, what you're saying is the gospel isn't in the book of John because John doesn't say baptism is a requirement for salvation?
If it is a requirement john missed many places where he could have easily mentioned it. take a look:

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life...no mention of baptism

John 3:18 Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son....no mention of baptism.

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him....no mention of baptism.

John 5:24 Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life....no mention of baptism.

John 6:40 For it is My Father's will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."...no mention of baptism

John 6:47 ruly, truly, I tell you, he who believes has eternal life...no mention of baptism.

John 11:26 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me will live, even though he dies ...no mention of baptism.

John 20:31 But these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in His name....no mention of baptism.

TheSeabass said:

Yes, crown of life is the same as eternal life. James 1:12; 1 Peter 5:4.

Are you implying a Christian can become and die UNfaithful and still be saved?

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OSAS dude.

TheSeabass said:

John 3:16 says nothing about repentance but that does not mean the impenitent will be saved. One needs to read "all the counsel of God" not just one verse in order to know all that is necessary to being saved.

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The crowns are crowns. Something to place on your heads if you desire.

Phil W said:

Nothing was snatched: it was given away.

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I'm glad i can rest on this from Romans 8.
35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written:

“For Your sake we face death all day long;

we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”

37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Can you?

Alithis said:

And how was Abrahams faith proven that he had any?..
He took the action to OBEY God...
He took his only son to sacrifice him.
His obedience proved he believed.
His obedience was the action of faith..
No obedience equates to no faith.

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If you follow Paul's argument give in Romans 4, Abraham was given a promise in Gen 15:5, then the next moment according to Gen 15:6 he believed the promise and was reckoned righteous, there being no intervening work between Gen 15:5 and Gen 15:6, a fact which Paul utilized to say that Abraham was justified by faith apart from works. He didn't have to prove anything to be justified. He simply had to believe God.

This is in contrast to the salvation-by-works gospel whereby one must prove they believe that they are saved by works by doing works. Quite a different gospel. It's essentially a modified version of the gospel of the sect of the Circumcision.

Grip Docility said:

Are you Saved and sealed unto Salvation by your faith, in Christ, Alone?

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No. We are saved by God's grace alone through faith but never alone

TheSeabass said:

Man does have a role in his own salvation in obeying the will of God and those that do, then it can be seen that God is working in them. Those that do not, then it can be seen God is not working in them.

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I think that's more about "sanctification" not really "salvation" (He saved us through His work on the cross - but we join with Him in our sanctification). I absolutely agree that our cooperation is necessary for the "completed work", though.

bsbsr said what I mean more articulately here:

bcbsr said:

Salvation by Works Christians typically misconstrue "work out" to be "work for", which is not what it says. Having been saved and as such Eternally Secure, the believer works out applications of faith. It's part of the sanctification process where maturity in Christ is a function of one's cooperation with the Spirit.

Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Gal 5:16 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.

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Grip Docility said:

Phil... no. Physical Castration and the Circumcision of the heart (Ephesians 1:13) are

Wait for it.....

“Apples” and Oranges...

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Umm no actually.... Its reflections(foreshadows in the flesh/temperal /natural ) of Actual apples in the spiritual eternal..
Old Testament is full of these forshadows as God was holding as a mystery his full plan.
Thus egypt spoke of world and sin
The red sea spoke of water baptism
The mountain and fire of recieving the holy Spirit
The tablets a foreshadow of the law of love written on hearts
The circumcision a forshadow of salvation in our spirit being freed from the power of flesh and sin..cut away...
No its absolutley NOT
Apples and oranges.
To say that you would have to say there is no correlation between the old testament scriptures and the new
And completely miss that everything in the new testament is mysteriously foretold in the old ,then uncovered and revealed in the new as to its true spiritual and eternal meaning.

-57 said:

So, what you're saying is the gospel isn't in the book of John because John doesn't say baptism is a requirement for salvation?
If it is a requirement john missed many places where he could have easily mentioned it. take a look:

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life...no mention of baptism

John 3:18 Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son....no mention of baptism.

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him....no mention of baptism.

John 5:24 Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life....no mention of baptism.

John 6:40 For it is My Father's will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."...no mention of baptism

John 6:47 ruly, truly, I tell you, he who believes has eternal life...no mention of baptism.

John 11:26 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me will live, even though he dies ...no mention of baptism.

John 20:31 But these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in His name....no mention of baptism.

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I laugh .but with sadness at your incomplete and so misleading reply.. For instance you quoted plucked out sentances from john ch 3... And LEFT out where jesus speaks of being born again of water(baptism) And of spirit...and that which i already pointed out in john ch 4 that Jesus was intensly training his diciples to baptise... JESUS..the lord of lords the luving word of God manifest upon the earth considered it of such importance..and it was reported to him that the pharasees learned that JESUS ( through his disciples) was BAPTISING MORE people then john the baptizer...
Because this is how essential this obedience is.
The bible has not taught you other wise...
The book of Acts has not displayed otherwise..in EVERY case water baptism.us preached and practiced..the entire thoughtline of water baptism being unimportant would only draw rebuke from the apostles.
Paul said he was not sent to baptise you will say..but to preach the Gospel... AND..the Gosple message commands Baptism in water.
You've been taught falsly by MEN from outside the scripture.
You also.left out that to believe means to adhere to follow listen and obey.
Not only know about.
You also left out that the entire ch 3 of john is about baptism.
John the baptiser came baptising
Was he doing so of man or of God ?

1 Can you walk in obedience to the Lord Jesus while blatantly Disobeying him ?
2 have you been baptised in water as an adult on your own faith after repentance?
Why would you do a totally empty sumbolic acts if its just a symboluc act?.. {Answer :because your not so sure about that symbolic teaching are you..(hmm will I get an hobest reply in Jesus name? )}

It is of no surprise the THREE of the most contested thing in opposition to the good news of Jesus are the FOUR most basic responses of Obedience to the Gospel..
1.Believe...
2 repentance
3. water baptism
4 recieving the Holy spirit with evidence of his power.

AlWays the spirit of anti christ and teachings of devils seeks to undermine these

Phil W said:

Amen!
we can't be saved by the works of the Mosaic Law.

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The last part of the reference is the important one concerning what we do after we are saved by grace through faith. If we thought we could be saved through the works of God's moral law, we would have something to boast about - that we are getting to heaven because we are good people, only sinned a few times but mostly good. But once we are saved through knowing that we are no good, worth only to be thrown into the lake of fire like when the garden weeds are thrown into the incinerator, and accepting that Jesus paid the price for us when He died on the cross, then, taking Him as our Lord, we place ourselves in His hands for Him to work in us to do the works of righteousness that He has ordained for us to do. So we do practice righteousness after we are saved, but the Lord's way and not our own. Instead of the Law being a duty and a burden, it becomes our love and delight, and we regret that we can't do it perfectly as our hearts wants.

Phil W said:

Your impression of the walk of Christians opens a can of worms I think the "mods" won't tolerate.
Needless to say, my "impression" is different.

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phil..we cant dicuss the mods but they are people from all manner of denomination but are given a set script of rules.
But no one is teaching sinless perfection.

Oscarr said:

The last part of the reference is the important one concerning what we do after we are saved by grace through faith. If we thought we could be saved through the works of God's moral law, we would have something to boast about - that we are getting to heaven because we are good people, only sinned a few times but mostly good. But once we are saved through knowing that we are no good, worth only to be thrown into the lake of fire like when the garden weeds are thrown into the incinerator, and accepting that Jesus paid the price for us when He died on the cross, then, taking Him as our Lord, we place ourselves in His hands for Him to work in us to do the works of righteousness that He has ordained for us to do. So we do practice righteousness after we are saved, but the Lord's way and not our own. Instead of the Law being a duty and a burden, it becomes our love and delight, and we regret that we can't do it perfectly as our hearts wants.

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Nicely phrased @Oscarr

bcbsr said:

If you follow Paul's argument give in Romans 4, Abraham was given a promise in Gen 15:5, then the next moment according to Gen 15:6 he believed the promise and was reckoned righteous, there being no intervening work between Gen 15:5 and Gen 15:6, a fact which Paul utilized to say that Abraham was justified by faith apart from works. He didn't have to prove anything to be justified. He simply had to believe God.

This is in contrast to the salvation-by-works gospel whereby one must prove they believe that they are saved by works by doing works. Quite a different gospel. It's essentially a modified version of the gospel of the sect of the Circumcision.

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but you miss that paul.is referencing Abraham but does not in that reference outline the entire story.so we go read the account and find that the existance of Abrahams " faith" was proven by the fact that he took the action of obeying God because he believed God.

Noah also was saved this.way...
Imagine.if Noah did not believe God about the flood.He would not have built the ark and would not have been saved from that judgment.
But noah believed Gods gracious warning and offer of salvation
So he proved he believed that Free un earned offer..by taking action and obeying Gods instructions that came With his grace..
This action was " Faith"
Faith without obedient action is dead worthless useless.
(In niether of these examples does the Law given.through Moses exist.)

Also i must allow for the fact that ..i think you get me, but short posts on here do not allow for the full articulation of everything we try to say

Alithis said:

but you miss that paul.is referencing Abraham but does not in that reference outline the entire story.so we go read the account and find that the existance of Abrahams " faith" was proven by the fact that he took the action of obeying God because he believed God.

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Between the promise being given and Abraham believing it (the very next instance) there was no work which Abraham did. Yet he was saved by faith apart from works (See Paul's interpretation of that event in Romans 4) So he didn't have to prove his faith in order to be saved. For he was saved prior to doing anything.

So are you saying that you have to prove your faith by your works in order to be saved?