Here let's break down your post section by section...
And yet another Salvation-by-Works Thread!
No this is not a salvation by works thread. Please do not pretend that it is. We are only saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *
EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD by faith that works by LOVE. This is God's work in us and a part of the NEW COVENANT promise *
HEBREWS 8:10-12;
PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *
JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *
MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.
No we are not saved in order to continue in sin.
Indeed! God's WORD defines sin as the transgression or breaking of anyone of God's Commandments *1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11 and UNBELIEF *ROMANS 14:23. Now you agree that if we keep 9 commandments and break one commandment as JAMES says we stand guilty before God of breaking all of God's commandments right? If so then the question we need to ask ourselves is are we keeping all of God's Commandments through faith or not? How do we know that we are the children of God or the children of the devil?
People continue quite well without being saved. Those of us who actually believe the gospel have been saved from the condemnation of sin as it says, "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death." Rom 8:1,2
Indeed, read a little further in the next verse on the reason WHY?...
ROMANS 8:4 [4],
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
This links into 1 JOHN 3:9 that we discussed earlier. SIN (breaking God's LAW or unbelief in God's WORD) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:10
The law of sin and death is that if you sin you are condemned.
Are you saying that if you sin then the wages of sin is not death *ROMANS 6:23? The law of sin and death is disobedience to God's LAW as the wages of sin is death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son. ROMANS 8:4 that you left out earlier shows that there is no condemnation in those who BELIEVE God's WORD and have God's forgiveness so that the righteousness of the law might be FULFILLED in them. This links back to 1 JOHN 3:9 that we were discussing earlier and also ROMANS 3:31 and ROMANS 13:8-10.
We believers are free from that law such that our fate is not a function of sinning.
Can you please explain yourself here as this statement does not make much sense. Thankyou. Everone's fate is a funtion of sinning. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter the kingdom of heaven because by doing so they show they are not a child of God and reject the gift of God's dear son *1 JOHN 3:6-10; ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27.
Rather, have been saved, and as such eternally secure, we are born of God which itself affects our lifestyle, as it is written
There is no scripture in all of God's WORD that says a BELIEVER cannot fall away to become an UNBELIEVER as shown through the scriptures a believer can fall away from God's WORD to become an unbeliever
here click me.
HEBREWS 6:4-8
[4],
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5],
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Who are we talking about here; BELIEVERS or UNBELIEVERS? The question your considering is; were these BELIEVERS and Born again christians. Lets look at the key points in these that describe who there people were from the scriptures...
1. They were once enlightened; v4
2. Having tasted of the Heavenly gift; v4
3. They were made partakers of the Holy Ghost; v4
4. Having tasted of the good Word of God; v5
5. Having tasted of the power of the world to come v5
So reviewing the CONTEXT of these scriptures we don't really need to say much they speak for themselves. These people were BELIEVERS that departed from GOD and became "UNBELIEVERS" returning back to a life of sin. These people are BELIEVERS as shown in the CONTEXT of v4-5 which continues...
[6],
If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Yep, BELIEVERS having fallen away from the HEAVENLY gift back into sin..
[7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God:
[8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; whose end is to be burned.
Yep their end is to be burned does not sound like they will be going into God's Kingdom not having any REPENTANCE for sin (v6). These scripture are pretty rock solid I think and show that a BELIEVER can FALL AWAY back into SIN. Not sure why your having problems here brother to be honest.
"No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9
Thankyou this scripture supports the op here and shows the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil is sin.
And those who leave the faith were never really of the faith to begin with as it is written, "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." 1John 2:19
I love this scripture here but they do not support what you are claiming. Your reading the scriptures through a belief system that says that someone who is once a believer can never fall away to become an unbeliever. God's Word does not say anywhere that a believer stays a believer forever unconditionally and cannot fall away to become an unbeliever
here click me.
God's WORD says from GENESIS to REVELATIONS all through the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT scriptures that BELIEVERS can fall away to become UNBELIEVERS. We are warned about this all through God's WORD. There is a reason for these warnings. To reject these warnings brother is to do so at our own peril. Let's look at 1 JOHN 2:18-19 in some detail and add context..
1 JOHN 2:18-19 [18], Little children, it is the last time: and as you have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. [19],
They went out from us, but they were not of us;
for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us:
but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
v18, Anything that is against Christ is antichrist. The Greek word used here is ἀντίχριστος antichristos which means against Christ of an opponent of the Messiah. If we no longer BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD then we are an "UNBELIEVER" and against Christ because we no longer BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD.
As shown in the scriptures [19], They went out from us, but they were not of us;
for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
What did they go out from? They went out from the truth. The problem was not that they went out from fellowship with the BELIEVERS. The problem was that they became "UNBELIEVERS" not BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD!
The CONTEXT is that there is many
antichrists and
false teachers (ἀντίχριστος; antichristos; those who are against Christ and apponant of the Messiah. These are those who are AGAINST God's WORD.
They went out from the truth of God's Word and no longer believed and followed Gods' Word which made them not of us (UNBELIEVERS).
If they contunued with us then they would be of us (by continuing to believe and follow the truth of God's Word)
and would have been of us. No longer believing and following God's Word they went out from us. If you no longer believe and follow the truth of God's Word to the end then you are no longer of us.
Let's now link these scriptures back to the previous post in
JOHN 8:31-36. Do you remember the conditions that JESUS states for those who are His DISCIPLES and as PAUL says CONTINUED WITH US?
JOHN 8:31-36 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him,
IF YOU CONTINUE IN MY WORD , THEN ARE YOU MY DISCIPLES INDEED;
[32],
And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. [33], They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free? [34],
Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Whoever commits sin is the servant of sin. [35], And the servant stays not in the house for ever: but the Son stays ever. [36],
If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.
They went out from us because they were not of us. They went out from us (disciples) because they did not CONTINUE BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD. As a result of no longer BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD they left the truth.
What did they go out from? Yep you guessed it. They went out from BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's truth. The CONTEXT is that there is many antichrists and false teachers. They went out from the truth of God's Word and no longer believed and followed Gods' Word which made them not of us (Believers and followers of Gods' Word).
No surprise Salvation-by-Works Christians don't believe this as they don't believe the gospel of grace. In fact, just like their forefathers of the Christian sect of the Circumcision they discourage faith. While the kingdom of God is about joy and peace in believing (Rom 15:13), these others were anti-peace and joy resulting in Gai 4:15 What has happened to all your joy?
Now your making strawman arguments and claim again that have no truth in them. No one is arguing we are saved by works? Why do you pretend that they are? There is no such thing as once saved always saved however as this is not biblical and is is a false doctrine.
Hope this helps.
