Climate change - hoax or reality?

Tinker Grey · Jun 6, 2019

DM25 said:
There is nothing to be concerned about. Jesus is coming soon and God has full control and authority over the earth.

Are you suggesting it's ok to not take care of your god's creation?

I seem to recall that there were several parables against that sort of idea.

DM25 · Jun 6, 2019

Tinker Grey said:
Are you suggesting it's ok to not take care of your god's creation?

I seem to recall that there were several parables against that sort of idea.

No, read my other posts. There's nothing wrong with respecting God's creation. But just note you are not the cause of climate change. You may be the cause of poor living conditions and pollution though, so respect the environment, but you're not the cause of climate change.

SummerMadness · Jun 6, 2019

mukk_in said:
What makes you think I haven't done that? I have a PhD in Engineering and I'm a Professor who doesn't just publish but edits and models such technologies.

If you're interested and can understand, you can find some of our field reports (which included empirical modeling using regression analysis, predictive capability, statistical uncertainty, forecast etc.) here:

cfpub.epa.gov/ols/catalog/catalog_lookup.cfm
(link is too long)
Type keywords "Field performance of wood burning stoves in Colorado during the 1995-96 heating season ", Jaasma, Correl, Mukkamala (EPA National Library Catalog). It explains how the standard certification tests so poorly predict the actual emissions.

Have you ever done such work in pollution control? This is a place to discuss not attack others.

Your arrogance and ignorance is unbecoming of a Christian. No, I have no desire to get back to you.

I also have a PhD in engineering, I've published many papers (and still publish), I organize and chair conferences, and will be heading to an international conference this weekend. If you think posting a link to an article from the 1990s is relevant, then something tells me you have been out of research for a long time.

In today's world, a paper from 5 years ago is old... something from over 20 years ago is ancient. If you were doing actual climate science research, and doing that work in 2019, your credentials might mean something, but not for an unspecified engineering degree. A PhD does not make you a climate scientist; I understand mentioning your PhD probably works on people without advanced degrees, but for those of us with PhDs, we recognize how unqualified you are to speak on the topic, especially if you're not actively doing that research.

jacks · Jun 6, 2019

To the OP
Part of the problem is even is one agrees that climate change is a major problem, there is little advice on what to do about it. I was reading a professor from UBC who said that materials on how to deal with CC mention things like recycling, switching light bulbs, cloth shopping bags, etc. And that these have a relatively minor impact. Rather reducing air-flights, adopting a plant based life style or having one less child would have a much greater impact. (For example having one less child in the US would be the same level of reduction of 684 teenagers adopting comprehensive recycling for the rest of their lives.)

So even those who want to "help" really haven't been given the tools or information necessary to do so.

Zoii · Jun 7, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
Check out Professor Duncan Steel who released a paper on how the earths axis and rotation has had a much greater effect on climate than previously thought, many times more than the so called 'greenhouse effect"

So when you have an issue with your Ferari motor car, you take it to 50 Ferrari specialists who say ýou have a problem. Now you go to a mechanic who has no expertise in Feraris, who disagrees....who are you listening to

Is your advice to listen to the one who disagrees and doesnt even have a research background in climatology?

Albion · Jun 7, 2019

Well, there are plenty of them available. The thing is that they are immediately disavowed by the ones who want action, called incompetent, and so on. The media appropriately fall into line and the impression is given -- as you did here -- that there are NOT two sides to this issue when there really are.

USincognito · Jun 7, 2019

DM25 said:
climate change stuff is all a hoax.

You keep using that word.

USincognito · Jun 7, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
English wine was made in Roman times and in the 1500-1600 period

Meaning the UK, which didn't exist until tge 1800s never exported wine.

USincognito · Jun 7, 2019

deleted

Zoii · Jun 7, 2019

Albion said:
Well, there are plenty of them available. The thing is that they are immediately disavowed by the ones who want action, called incompetent, and so on. The media appropriately fall into line and the impression is given -- as you did here -- that there are NOT two sides to this issue when there really are.

No you haven't heard what I said - My analogy clearly states that while there are some scientists who oppose climate change, or aspects of the modelling, they frequently do not have actual research expertise in the field, and they are very much the 1 percent.

Now comes along YOU and ME. We are not experts - so who do we listen to ....My generation largely believes we have to listen to that overwhelming consensus of experts NOT the 1 percent.

My generation believes this is too important an issue to listen to the uninformed. My generation believes the solutions are achievable, and that renewable energy will ultimately become the norm despite older generations kicking and screaming and moaning who would prefer to support polluting processes....perhaps its because they will die soon anyway so figure its not their problem.

Albion · Jun 7, 2019

Zoii said:
No you haven't heard what I said - My analogy clearly states that while there are some scientists who oppose climate change, or aspects of the modelling, they frequently do not have actual research expertise in the field, and they are very much the 1 percent.

I think I heard you fine, but I disagree with your thesis.

Orthodoxjay1 · Jun 7, 2019

jacks said:
To the OP
Part of the problem is even is one agrees that climate change is a major problem, there is little advice on what to do about it. I was reading a professor from UBC who said that materials on how to deal with CC mention things like recycling, switching light bulbs, cloth shopping bags, etc. And that these have a relatively minor impact. Rather reducing air-flights, adopting a plant based life style or having one less child would have a much greater impact. (For example having one less child in the US would be the same level of reduction of 684 teenagers adopting comprehensive recycling for the rest of their lives.)

So even those who want to "help" really haven't been given the tools or information necessary to do so.

So don't travel and don't have children, seem like a scam, the bible tells us to go fourth and multiply, this looks like a scheme for population control of the planet. As far as travel goes, there that thing call the right to travel and freedom of travel, time to give up visiting family, even if a mother dies, because a polar bear might suffer geez give me a break folks : :sigh:

:

Thank God for President Trump.

OldWiseGuy · Jun 7, 2019

mukk_in said:
What makes you think I haven't done that? I have a PhD in Engineering and I'm a Professor who doesn't just publish but edits and models such technologies.

If you're interested and can understand, you can find some of our field reports (which included empirical modeling using regression analysis, predictive capability, statistical uncertainty, forecast etc.) here:

cfpub.epa.gov/ols/catalog/catalog_lookup.cfm
(link is too long)
Type keywords "Field performance of wood burning stoves in Colorado during the 1995-96 heating season ", Jaasma, Correl, Mukkamala (EPA National Library Catalog). It explains how the standard certification tests so poorly predict the actual emissions.

Have you ever done such work in pollution control? This is a place to discuss not attack others.

Your arrogance and ignorance is unbecoming of a Christian. No, I have no desire to get back to you.

What has pollution data on the recent large forest fires revealed about wood burning. I'm guessing that a single large forest fire would more than equal all the wood burned for winter heating in the U.S.

Of course the obvious flaw in any study of co2 emissions from burning wood is that dead trees in the forest eventually give up most of their carbon to the atmosphere without providing any heat for anyone.

OldWiseGuy · Jun 7, 2019

RichardY said:
@mukk_in Shakedown. Climate changes anyway, so Climate Change is a non-sequitur.

If governments and large electronic corporations were concerned about the environment, they could start with standardising electronics components and make them easier to repair. They'd see a crash in sales probably. Less resources used, less pollution, but they're not concerned anywhere near enough.

True. It's always a balance between the economy and the environment. The only way to satisfy both is for population to decline significantly.

OldWiseGuy · Jun 7, 2019

Zoii said:
Here's a tip:

You own a car - its an expensive car. Do you go asking Donald Trump or a random christian here to fix your car. No I figure you would go to someone qualified. Someone who has credentials as a car mechanic and preferably with a ton of frontline experience in your kind of car.

But hey yours is a very expensive car - so maybe you will get a few expert opinions from those with appropriate credentials. If one guy says there's nothing to worry about but the other ten say 'listen up - you have a major problem', then I figure you will go where the consensus of experts sit.

So what on earth is this ridiculous debate we have - Christians are the worst for this - the classic climate deniers. We have literally tens of thousands of climate scientists who have tendered their collective opinion - and we still have people like you lot saying....wellllll the guy next door says...or the looney on the radio says....

You have your experts - Its just that too many of you don't want to listen.

I think Christians are more cynical fatalists than climate deniers.

Carl Emerson · Jun 7, 2019

Zoii said:
So when you have an issue with your Ferari motor car, you take it to 50 Ferrari specialists who say ýou have a problem. Now you go to a mechanic who has no expertise in Feraris, who disagrees....who are you listening to

Is your advice to listen to the one who disagrees and doesnt even have a research background in climatology?

Track down his paper and read it - then come back with a comment.

Carl Emerson · Jun 7, 2019

USincognito said:
Meaning the UK, which didn't exist until tge 1800s never exported wine.

Are you seriously denying that wine was produced and exported from parts of what is now England and Scotland even, in the warm period around 1500-1600 ? and also in Roman times.
This is well documented.
We have periodically had warm periods and we are headed for another one.
The issue is to adapt to the changing climate, not worry about the sky falling in.

Orthodoxjay1 · Jun 7, 2019

Of course the sky falling to them, enviormentalism is the new religion among the progressives since most left Christianity all together. There quick to become Green Crusaders.

USincognito · Jun 7, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
Are you seriously denying that wine was produced and exported from parts of what is now England and Scotland even, in the warm period around 1500-1600 ? and also in Roman times.
This is well documented.
We have periodically had warm periods and we are headed for another one.
The issue is to adapt to the changing climate, not worry about the sky falling in.

Go back and read what I wrote again.

Carl Emerson · Jun 7, 2019

USincognito said:
Go back and read what I wrote again.

Sorry friend, I am honestly not understanding you, could you please spell out your point in a bit more detail.

Climate change - hoax or reality?

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