The Book of Acts isn't just for Dispensationalists!!!

Grip Docility · Jun 6, 2019

mkgal1 said:
I agree - there's always been only one plan (and even one way to salvation - the law NEVER "saved" as no one was able to keep it besides Jesus).

Here, we part ways. I see the purpose of Israel fulfilled with Jesus and the formation of the New Body of His united church with the wall of hostility torn down.

Now - we are all equal......all can come to God through believing Him and His word and what He's accomplished.

ISTM that by placing Israel's fulfillment of prophecy still off in the future, it's denying what God HAD done and fulfilled in the past.

I understand... but as Gentiles once were, so is hardened, Unbelieving Israel.

Which exalts the true character of the One Who visited Sheol, upon His death?

Jake S. · Jun 6, 2019

Grip Docility said:
How many people have REALLY studied the Book of Acts of the Apostles?

I'm going to venture to say that many Christians, actually don't study the book. I'm going to hurt some feelings here, because the book of Acts is literally THE TRUE FORMATION OF THE EARLY CHURCH.

Before skisms and Isms... We have Acts of the Apostles... But I warn you... Acts will actually confirm several things...

1) The shift form Judaism to Christianity wasn't an easy matter.
2) The 11 Apostles weren't Christians, but Jews... long into the book of Acts.
3) Paul was the turning point of it all.
4) Israel and the BOC aren't the same entity.

So, yes, the Book of Acts isn't just for Dispi's!!! But, I've got to warn you.... by the time you've read from Acts of the Apostles 1 - Acts of the Apostles 28 ... You might end up infected with a more ancient form of Dispensationalism.

NO! I'm not talking about 2P2P... All of the books are for all of God's people!

But! CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT!!!!!!

Not sure where to reply. Have I replied in the correct place, testing....

Grip Docility · Jun 6, 2019

Jake S. said:
Not sure where to reply. Have I replied in the correct place, testing....

You have

Dorothy Mae · Jun 6, 2019

mkgal1 said:
But you do agree that the people originally called "Israel" were formed together and united into the Body of Christ - right?

Well, that is hard to say as the people originally called Israel were many and over millennia and weren't always formed together at all but even fought and killed each other. They enslaved each other too so I am not sure we can say they were particularly united throughtout their history at all and Christ was not there for that whole period.

After the resurrection the Jews certainly did not all believe and were not, therefore united. But maybe I do not understand what you mean.

Sm412 · Jun 6, 2019

dqhall said:
Peter’s church shared things in common. Peter worked diligently for any support he received from his flock.

Paul had to work with his hands to support his ministry. The church(s) in Macedonia were contributing to Paul’s missionary activities. Traveling from port to port would not have been possible without the support of people of some skill and wealth. One of Paul’s supporters named Philemon had a servant who was assisting Paul.

Several women were supporting Jesus. In Mark 14 one of these anointed his feet with nard worth a year’s wages. Some complained that it was wasteful. Jesus asked them not to scold her.

I see you don't know anything about communism. None of that refutes the communism of the early church, nor lends support for capitalism.

Dorothy Mae · Jun 6, 2019

Sm412 said:
I see you don't know anything about communism. None of that refutes the communism of the early church, nor lends support for capitalism.

Interesting comment, "communism of the early church." Most would not like that term because the early church volunteered to share their private property and everyone's needs were met. The communists stole the private property of others giving those in power nicer lives and millions died in the process. Not much in common.

Dorothy Mae · Jun 6, 2019

Grip Docility said:
Judaism prevailed until Paul. Acts 15

I think it prevailied until the fall of Jerusalem when the temple and all the records and materials was totally destroyed and the jewish believers killed or distributed elsewhere. It has never been Mosaic from that day forward.

Contenders Edge · Jun 6, 2019

Dorothy Mae said:
Is there a nation God has cast off? What does that look like when He does?

God kept his promise to the Jews. That is fulfilled now.

When God casts off a nation and completely, that nation no longer exists and its people are either scattered, live in obscurity or are completely annihilated by whatever means that may come. There may be not even be a chance of restoration.

Examples of this which can be cited from scripture are the Canaanite nations whom God commanded the Israelites to drive out. Those amongst those nations who were not killed were eventually absorbed into the Israelite civilization. The Jebusites had persisted through the reign of King David (2 Sam. 24:16-15, 1 Chr. 21:15-28) but after the reign of David, nothing more is said of them.

But those of direct Canaanite descent persisted into the New Testament. (Mt. 15:22) Even one of the Apostles was called a Canaanite (Mt. 10:4, Mk. 3:18) but eventually, even the Canaanites, as we know them, faded from existence.

The last we ever hear of the Amalekites, a bandit nation and people whom God destined for destruction for preying on the most vulnerable of God’s people as they were taking their journey from Egypt through the wilderness to the promised land, (Deut. 25:17-19, 1 Sam. 15) is during the era of the Persian Empire. In the book of Esther, you will read about a man called Haman who was called an Agagite which suggests that he was of Amalekite descent. Agag was an Amalekite king whom the prophet Samuel had executed. The Amalekites were not supposed to have persisted as long as they had. Saul, the first king over Israel, was supposed to destroy the Amalekites entirely as God had commanded him through the prophet Samuel (1 Sam. 15) but his disobedience may be the reason why those of Amalekite descent may have persisted into Queen Esther’s day but until that time, remained in obscurity after almost all of them had been annihilated by the Israelites.

The last anyone ever reads about the Philistines is in the book of Zechariah who foretold their eventual and final demise. (Zech. 9:6)

Other than what we read about in the Bible, not much else is known about the nations and peoples whom God destroyed.

But though the Jews had been scattered and chastised, God never completely cast them off. They still retained their identity and their culture. And that Israel is restored to their land once again is a major proof that there is a God in Heaven who can be trusted to keep His promises.

If the promises of God to one group of people are kept and fulfilled, then we can be sure that He will do the same for us, for the integrity of our God is tied to His faithfulness in fulfilling His promises.

Yet no other people or nation is guaranteed the preservation that the nation of Israel has been promised and this ought to give us all the more reason to fear the Lord our God and devote ourselves to faithful obedience and service to Him, going about our Fathers business by calling and persuading as many people as possible to repentance through Christ Jesus by whose death and resurrection we are saved through the forgiveness of sins and kept from being sentenced to an unimaginable everlasting punishment.

And when we are told about the demise of other nations and kingdoms of which are named in history such as, for example, the Mayans, Incas, and Aztecs, the one thing that should be searched out is what was the moral and spiritual state of that society and civilization before their downfall? It should never be counted a coincidence when we read of the accounts of the rise and fall of nations, kingdoms, and empires. There is a cause to their rise and a cause to their fall from which we might do well to learn for in doing so, we might just have a hand in keeping the nations in which we dwell from a complete and total destruction.

Now, to the best of my knowledge, no such destruction of a nation or people has ever been witnessed in recent times, but should we ever in our time witness the death of an entire people or nation, we should stop to consider and search out the cause and learn from it that we ourselves might be spared such a fate.

For just as God as made examples of such nations and people in past times, I foresee that such may happen in our time to a people and nation whose hearts against their Maker have become so hardened that nothing can make them repent of their sins and turn toward Him, and the wickedness thereof having reached to such a height that God will have no choice but to wipe them out of existence. Should we witness such a thing, it ought to serve as a warning to the rest of us lest we suffer the same fate but I would wager that you and I are both hoping and praying that the our respective countries will not be the ones of whom God may have to make an example, at least not in our lifetime and I am sure anyone else reading this post is hoping and praying that their respective nation will not be made a divine example of either.

It is a very terrifying and dreadful thing to think about. So what do we do? Be about our Father’s business, preaching the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ to as many as we can and be in prayer for the respective nation in which we dwell whether that be America, Switzerland, Britain, Canada, and so forth.

Yet inevitably and due to their persistently unrepentant wickedness, there will be nations and peoples who will be destroyed when our Lord returns to reign upon the earth, it is written that there will be a judgment of nations as illustrated in the parable of the sheep and the goats (Mt. 25:31-46 ) in which the sheep enter into the millennial kingdom and the goats are cast into the everlasting fire to be punished.

The sheep represent peoples and nations who go into the millennial kingdom for their faithfulness to Christ, and the goats represent the nations who perish and are no more due to their evil. Make absolutely sure you are one of our Lord's sheep and not one of Satan's goats.

Contenders Edge · Jun 6, 2019

Dorothy Mae said:
I think it prevailied until the fall of Jerusalem when the temple and all the records and materials was totally destroyed and the jewish believers killed or distributed elsewhere. It has never been Mosaic from that day forward.

Judaism is still Mosaic even today but other traditions have been added to that Mosaic foundation over time for several reasons even before the destruction of the Temple.

Dorothy Mae · Jun 6, 2019

mkgal1 said:
80 Gospel of Luke written by the Apostle Luke; Titus dedicates Colosseum, site of the martyrdom of many early Christians.

96 Gospel of John written by Apostle John.

I am of the view that the Gospels were written before the fall of Jerusalem along with the Revelation of Jesus Christ written by John. Luke wrote Acts which seems to end with Paul still being alive. Wasn't that written after the gospel of Luke?

Dorothy Mae · Jun 6, 2019

Contenders Edge said:
Judaism is still Mosaic even today but other traditions have been added to that Mosaic foundation over time for several reasons even before the destruction of the Temple.

True, Jesus spoke of this addition of the teaching of men to what God gave Moses. Judiasm was no longer completely what God had given Moses in Jesus' day.

But I am curious, which parts of Judiasm do you think are still from the mosiac covenant? The main elements of worship are completely gone. No journeys to the temple, no animal sacrifices, no Levites as the records of birth were lost so no priesthood. The leaders are called "Rabbi" now right?

Dorothy Mae · Jun 6, 2019

Contenders Edge said:
When God casts off a nation and completely, that nation no longer exists and its people are either scattered, live in obscurity or are completely annihilated by whatever means that may come. There may be not even be a chance of restoration.

Examples of this which can be cited from scripture are the Canaanite nations whom God commanded the Israelites to drive out. Those amongst those nations who were not killed were eventually absorbed into the Israelite civilization. The Jebusites had persisted through the reign of King David (2 Sam. 24:16-15, 1 Chr. 21:15-28) but after the reign of David, nothing more is said of them.

But those of direct Canaanite descent persisted into the New Testament. (Mt. 15:22) Even one of the Apostles was called a Canaanite (Mt. 10:4, Mk. 3:18) but eventually, even the Canaanites, as we know them, faded from existence.

The last we ever hear of the Amalekites, a bandit nation and people whom God destined for destruction for preying on the most vulnerable of God’s people as they were taking their journey from Egypt through the wilderness to the promised land, (Deut. 25:17-19, 1 Sam. 15) is during the era of the Persian Empire. In the book of Esther, you will read about a man called Haman who was called an Agagite which suggests that he was of Amalekite descent. Agag was an Amalekite king whom the prophet Samuel had executed. The Amalekites were not supposed to have persisted as long as they had. Saul, the first king over Israel, was supposed to destroy the Amalekites entirely as God had commanded him through the prophet Samuel (1 Sam. 15) but his disobedience may be the reason why those of Amalekite descent may have persisted into Queen Esther’s day but until that time, remained in obscurity after almost all of them had been annihilated by the Israelites.

The last anyone ever reads about the Philistines is in the book of Zechariah who foretold their eventual and final demise. (Zech. 9:6)

Other than what we read about in the Bible, not much else is known about the nations and peoples whom God destroyed.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. We can assume that He is casting off no living nation today, right?

But though the Jews had been scattered and chastised, God never completely cast them off. They still retained their identity and their culture. And that Israel is restored to their land once again is a major proof that there is a God in Heaven who can be trusted to keep His promises.

If the promises of God to one group of people are kept and fulfilled, then we can be sure that He will do the same for us, for the integrity of our God is tied to His faithfulness in fulfilling His promises.

Yet no other people or nation is guaranteed the preservation that the nation of Israel has been promised and this ought to give us all the more reason to fear the Lord our God and devote ourselves to faithful obedience and service to Him, going about our Fathers business by calling and persuading as many people as possible to repentance through Christ Jesus by whose death and resurrection we are saved through the forgiveness of sins and kept from being sentenced to an unimaginable everlasting punishment.

Amen!!

And when we are told about the demise of other nations and kingdoms of which are named in history such as, for example, the Mayans, Incas, and Aztecs, the one thing that should be searched out is what was the moral and spiritual state of that society and civilization before their downfall? It should never be counted a coincidence when we read of the accounts of the rise and fall of nations, kingdoms, and empires. There is a cause to their rise and a cause to their fall from which we might do well to learn for in doing so, we might just have a hand in keeping the nations in which we dwell from a complete and total destruction.

Now, to the best of my knowledge, no such destruction of a nation or people has ever been witnessed in recent times, but should we ever in our time witness the death of an entire people or nation, we should stop to consider and search out the cause and learn from it that we ourselves might be spared such a fate.

For just as God as made examples of such nations and people in past times, I foresee that such may happen in our time to a people and nation whose hearts against their Maker have become so hardened that nothing can make them repent of their sins and turn toward Him, and the wickedness thereof having reached to such a height that God will have no choice but to wipe them out of existence. Should we witness such a thing, it ought to serve as a warning to the rest of us lest we suffer the same fate but I would wager that you and I are both hoping and praying that the our respective countries will not be the ones of whom God may have to make an example, at least not in our lifetime and I am sure anyone else reading this post is hoping and praying that their respective nation will not be made a divine example of either.

It is a very terrifying and dreadful thing to think about. So what do we do? Be about our Father’s business, preaching the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ to as many as we can and be in prayer for the respective nation in which we dwell whether that be America, Switzerland, Britain, Canada, and so forth.

Yet inevitably and due to their persistently unrepentant wickedness, there will be nations and peoples who will be destroyed when our Lord returns to reign upon the earth, it is written that there will be a judgment of nations as illustrated in the parable of the sheep and the goats (Mt. 25:31-46 ) in which the sheep enter into the millennial kingdom and the goats are cast into the everlasting fire to be punished.

The sheep represent peoples and nations who go into the millennial kingdom for their faithfulness to Christ, and the goats represent the nations who perish and are no more due to their evil. Make absolutely sure you are one of our Lord's sheep and not one of Satan's goats.

Pretty good post. I asked the question because when people say God has not abandoned Israel or is not finished with Israel, I wonder if they would know if He had or not since we don't think God has done that to any nation we know on earth right now. Means God has not abandoned India or God is not finished with Iran either. Means Israel as a nation is not treated differently than any other nation if we look at world events.

Dorothy Mae · Jun 6, 2019

mkgal1 said:
ISTM that by placing Israel's fulfillment of prophecy still off in the future, it's denying what God HAD done and fulfilled in the past.

I agree totally. Understanding the fulfillment of scripture in the past is very powerful.

Contenders Edge · Jun 6, 2019

Grip Docility said:
Many people miss the difference between Israel and the BOC. I bind Gentiles to dogs to refer to the scraps off the masters table verse.

He became all things to all men. I only hold back on this because people that are not Sola Fide are too in the milk to fully understand it’s implications.

To the Jew, like a Jew.
To the gentile, like the gentile.
To the weak in faith, like the weak in faith.
To the one not under the law, not under the law, though upholding the law of Christ.

I became all things to all men... that the imperishable treasures can be won for Christ.

Paraphrased by myself

“Many people miss the difference between Israel and the BOC.”

You can thank that damnable Replacement Theology doctrine for that; among the worst falsehoods and heresies to enter into the Church

“I bind Gentiles to dogs to refer to the scraps off the masters table verse.”

But in Christ, we are dogs no longer.

“He became all things to all men. I only hold back on this because people that are not Sola Fide are too in the milk to fully understand it’s implications.”

But it is important that its implications are understood. That is what both the Epistles to the Galatians and Hebrews were written for. It is also equally important to understand that that the grace by which we are saved is not to be used as a permission slip to live a sinful lifestyle because there are those who use the grace of our God to do just that, having no desire to faithfully serve and obey Christ despite their profession of faith.

Sm412 · Jun 6, 2019

Dorothy Mae said:
Interesting comment, "communism of the early church." Most would not like that term because the early church volunteered to share their private property and everyone's needs were met. The communists stole the private property of others giving those in power nicer lives and millions died in the process. Not much in common.

Communism exists on a spectrum concerning government power. Anarchism is a communist system in which people voluntarily share things in common and meet the needs of the community. So yea, the early church was communist, in the anarchist sense.

Communism simply means that the economic means of production are collectively owned. It can and has been done with and without government.

Dorothy Mae · Jun 6, 2019

Sm412 said:
Communism exists on a spectrum concerning government power. Anarchism is a communist system in which people voluntarily share things in common and meet the needs of the community. So yea, the early church was communist, in the anarchist sense.

anarchism

belief in the abolition of all government and the organization of society on a voluntary, cooperative basis without recourse to force or compulsion.
- a political force or movement based on belief in anarchism.

That is definately NOT what the Christians believed nor practiced. Again, I do not agree that the early Christians practiced communism. And they did not all do this all the time anyway. It was particular to Jersusalem for that particular church.

Communism simply means that the economic means of production are collectively owned. It can and has been done with and without government.

I donot see that the early Christian collectively owned the economic means of production. They individually owned the produce of their labor and voluntarily gave it up for the common good for a time. But they did not share the means of production, just the products. No companies were jointly owned by the whole church. No businesses were attached to the rest of the church as a whole. Everyone still owned their own means of production.

Dorothy Mae · Jun 6, 2019

Contenders Edge said:
“I bind Gentiles to dogs to refer to the scraps off the masters table verse.”
.

Where does this quote come from?

Sm412 · Jun 6, 2019

Dorothy Mae said:
anarchism

belief in the abolition of all government and the organization of society on a voluntary, cooperative basis without recourse to force or compulsion.

a political force or movement based on belief in anarchism.

That is definately NOT what the Christians believed nor practiced. Again, I do not agree that the early Christians practiced communism. And they did not all do this all the time anyway. It was particular to Jersusalem for that particular church.
I donot see that the early Christian collectively owned the economic means of production. They individually owned the produce of their labor and voluntarily gave it up for the common good for a time. But they did not share the means of production, just the products. No companies were jointly owned by the whole church. No businesses were attached to the rest of the church as a whole. Everyone still owned their own means of production.

It doesn't have to be a company or business jointly owned, simply resources jointly owned, which they did. It can be done voluntarily, which it was. Resources were collectively owned and distributed according to need. That's communism. Sorry that this interferes with your rugged, revere-the-rich, hate-the-poor, conservative capitalist ideology. Jesus had a few things to say about the rich as well.

That definition doesn't do anarchism justice. It's quite a bit more than that. It operates on the same basis as the early church in terms of resource distribution, which is where I'm making the comparison.

Sm412 · Jun 6, 2019

Dorothy Mae said:
anarchism

belief in the abolition of all government and the organization of society on a voluntary, cooperative basis without recourse to force or compulsion.

a political force or movement based on belief in anarchism.

That is definately NOT what the Christians believed nor practiced. Again, I do not agree that the early Christians practiced communism. And they did not all do this all the time anyway. It was particular to Jersusalem for that particular church.
I donot see that the early Christian collectively owned the economic means of production. They individually owned the produce of their labor and voluntarily gave it up for the common good for a time. But they did not share the means of production, just the products. No companies were jointly owned by the whole church. No businesses were attached to the rest of the church as a whole. Everyone still owned their own means of production.

It would be a lot easier to have this conversation if you knew anything at all about communism and anarchism. Your knowledge seems to be limited to webster definitions and Fox News.

Contenders Edge · Jun 6, 2019

Dorothy Mae said:
Thanks for the detailed explanation. We can assume that He is casting off no living nation today, right?
Amen!!

Pretty good post. I asked the question because when people say God has not abandoned Israel or is not finished with Israel, I wonder if they would know if He had or not since we don't think God has done that to any nation we know on earth right now. Means God has not abandoned India or God is not finished with Iran either. Means Israel as a nation is not treated differently than any other nation if we look at world events.

Let us be clear about something: God has been very patient with the nations of the world not willing that any should perish but that all would come to repentance. (2 Pet. 3:9) Only Israel is guaranteed preservation and that is a promise made to them by God for the sake of their forefathers who feared and faithfully served Him and God is no promise breaker. They have been brought back into their land and there they will remain; never to be uprooted or scattered again.

No other nation or people have ever been given such a promise.

And just because we have not seen the total destruction or annihilation of any existing nation or people in our day yet, that does not mean it will not happen in our day and what a sobering thing it would be to witness. But we can be sure of this: Israel will never face destruction. The scripture makes that clear.

The same is not guaranteed for other nations and peoples. The days of their existence is dependent upon how long the fear of the Lord remains in them. Even a small number of God-fearing people is enough to spare a nation. Remember that God would not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah until Lot and his family were removed from the vicinity

But we can rest assured that because God is faithful in keeping His promises to the Jews who will eventually come to a saving faith in Christ (Rom. 11:15, 26) He will also be faithful in keeping His promises to us.

The Book of Acts isn't just for Dispensationalists!!!

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