Doing good

fhansen · Jun 6, 2019

Wordkeeper said:
You know, the Holy Spirit didn't slide down Joshua's gullet and transform his heart. It was a cognitive act: Joshua said to himself, "Blimey, if the Boss can get me out of Egypt and stop hot pursuit, He can take me back there to help me get my mates out too!"

Yes, we're rational beings. Both reason and will are involved in the acceptance of His grace-and acting on it. But the gift is free in any case.

dad · Jun 6, 2019

Wordkeeper said:
You know, the Holy Spirit didn't slide down Joshua's gullet and transform his heart. It was a cognitive act: Joshua said to himself, "Blimey, if the Boss can get me out of Egypt and stop hot pursuit, He can take me back there and help me get my mates out too!"

I would think God does come in and that the acts afterward improve.

Wordkeeper · Jun 6, 2019

dad said:
I would think God does come in and that the acts afterward improve.

I'm saying that Joshua was motivated to come out of spiritual Egypt (as against geographical Egypt) by eating of spiritual food, witnessing signs in the wilderness.

Then comes the physical empowering, giving of the ability to feed the sheep:

Exodus 4
8Then the Lord said, “If they do not believe you or pay attention to the first sign, they may believe the second. 9But if they do not believe these two signs or listen to you, take some water from the Nile and pour it on the dry ground. The water you take from the river will become blood on the ground.”

KyleSpringer · Jun 6, 2019

dad said:
Yes. I think our rewards in heaven are based on works, not salvation. Some will shine brighter than others.
I would think it takes the love of God inside of us. Without Him, people are basically just putting on a show and trying in their own strength.
Won't argue with that.

And if the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts we will become more forgiving, loving, kind, etc etc. Him working in and through us. Not our own works.

Yes.

May God be with you!

Hammster · Jun 6, 2019

fhansen said:
Yes, and us cooperating with Him to work it out.

But that has no effect on our salvation. We can add nothing to justification.

Hammster · Jun 6, 2019

Wordkeeper said:
If you want to debunk the view that there are imperatives to do good because that's asking for the impossibility, then you should choose a passage that your opponents specifically say supports their view. Instead, you have chosen a passage which states the result of that imperative.

Why do you think I picked it? It was given as a proof text that works are necessary.

Hammster · Jun 6, 2019

fhansen said:
Of course we don't receive the Spirit by the works of the law; the law can accomplish nothing, besides conviction of sin, that is. We receive the Spirit by faith, which means we enter communion with God by faith, as I've stated. But receiving the Spirit doesn't mean that we'll continue to abide, or obey or cooperate. We can taste of the heavenly gift and still end up spitting it out. But as we do cooperate, as we "invest" our talents, He'll give us even more to invest, with justice increasing, and in and with this dynamic our salvation is worked out. This is why James can say we're not saved by faith alone-because faith does not guarantee this cooperation-and salvation is not some one-time event. It's all about what we do with the gift given-and continue to do throughout the course of our lives with whatever time we have.

You should read the rest of the passage I posted.

Hammster · Jun 6, 2019

Wordkeeper said:
Paul wasn't inveigling against good deeds but against those who were teaching that believers had to become Jews in order to be saved. It's also ironical that you chose this passage to prove that Christ did for us what we couldn't do for ourselves because Abraham did do it for himself. He made himself righteous by accepting God's word: he did a deed.

Please show any scripture that says he made himself righteous.

Hammster · Jun 6, 2019

dad said:
I am OK interpreting all verses in the light of what we know the heart of God to be.

Ah. Then you should do that.

KyleSpringer · Jun 6, 2019

Work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

This doesn’t infer that everything you do much be in utter terror, but as we are learning to walk in the spirit, we must be humbly reverent to the goodness of God.

It is because of God that we even know of God. We are blessed to even know of the salvation that is offered by our Savior God! Love the truth and love others as God has loved you, that we might glorify God in our character.

TheSeabass · Jun 6, 2019

Hammster said:
And that’s why we need the gospel.

The gospel will not save those who do evil - wicked - unrighteousness.

KyleSpringer · Jun 6, 2019

TheSeabass said:
The gospel will not save those who do evil - wicked - unrighteousness.

If they repent, the will absolutely be saved.

TheSeabass · Jun 6, 2019

KyleSpringer said:
If they repent, the will absolutely be saved.

Yes, and repenting is doing well, doing what is right, righteousness.

Blade · Jun 6, 2019

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live"

Seems the Dead had a choice. OR was it only based on doing good?

Its clear in the word there are those that have never heard of Christ or even GOD. So on what will they be judged? He said.. if you were blind you would have no sin.. you say you see your sin remains.

As He said.. since I believe on HIM that sent Him.. I am not judged.

Hammster · Jun 6, 2019

TheSeabass said:
The gospel will not save those who do evil - wicked - unrighteousness.

Those are the only ones it does save.

fhansen · Jun 6, 2019

Hammster said:
But that has no effect on our salvation.

Of course it does, because we can lose our state of justice; we can turn back away from God. Which means we must instead retain that state, continuing to do His will and expected to grow in doing it even better yet.

Hammster · Jun 6, 2019

fhansen said:
Of course it does, because we can lose our state of justice; we can turn back away from God. Which means we must instead retain that state, continuing to do His will and expected to grow in doing it even better yet.

That’s law, not gospel.

fhansen · Jun 6, 2019

Hammster said:
Those are the only ones it does save.

We're all evil, fallen in any case to begin with. Those saved, however, have turned away from evil and towards God, with His grace, and He then enables them to remain that way as they continue to abide in Him.

Hammster · Jun 6, 2019

fhansen said:
We're all evil, fallen in any case to begin with. Those saved, however, have turned away from evil and towards God, with His grace, and He then enables them to remain that way as they continue to abide in Him.

That’s pretty close.

fhansen · Jun 6, 2019

Hammster said:
That’s law, not gospel.

No, being under the law is to be under the onus of obeying by our own efforts. To be under grace is to be enabled to obey by God's "efforts", which is the way it's always meant to be. God didn't create us to sin after all.

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