Why did Adam and Eve sin if there was no sin?

bling

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The difference is that what we want is really made evident by what we do. We can say we want anything-but in truth we may well worship the creature more than the Creator. Talk is cheap. In heaven we genuinely want only God because we finally know Him "face to face". He completely satiates any and all hunger and thirst.

Sin is evidence of lack of love in some area, love for God and also for neighbor. We should begin to move towards love in this life-and are "equipped" as Christians to do so. But the flesh is weak, and we're suspicious that we may "miss out" if we give in to God and give up pet sins. But the more we know Him the more we love Him and the things of this world then grow dimmer. But it's hard-it's a process that takes time. And it can be easier for people to just throw up their hands instead and say, 'Oh well, I'm just a snow-covered dung-heap, forgiven due to my faith but unable to refrain from sin.' That's not the gospel, however. God helps us, with grace, to move on wards and upwards overall even if we slip back now and then-and expects and even demands that as part of our Christian walk. We're "new creations", not just forgiven worthless worms. But His demand is only a good one: simply that we love-and His promise is that He'll build that justice in us as we're willing to accept it, as we're able to recognize and value it as superior to the sin that otherwise tempts us away from love, away from Him.
Earth is not heaven and is not designed to be heaven.

God allowed Adam and Eve to sin for a reason, the same reason God allows all mature adults to sin.

It takes a lot more than a strong motive to keep from sinning, since Adam and Eve had a strong motive not to sin and only one way to sin, yet they sinned.

When deity dwelled within a human body unquenched that person did not sin (Christ), so if you allow the indwelling Holy Spirit to be active and unquenched within your body can you stop sinning?

Do you first have to quench the Spirit in order to sin?

Sin has purpose for the nonbelieving sinner and helps some to become children of God, but sin does not have purpose for the Christian and is definitely not needed in heaven.

Sin created an unbelievable huge debt for the sinner.

Sin hurts God.

Yes, if we had not sinned Christ would not have had to go to the cross, but if I had not sinned, I would not have accepted God’s charity (Love/grace/mercy) in the form of forgiveness and thus not have obtained Godly type Love.

God does not want us to sin.

For the most part all the verses on sin do not address: “why God allows us to sin and the benefits of sin”, but you can look at Luke 7.

There is an unbelievable huge benefit to accepting God’s forgiveness for our sins, since Jesus has taught us (Luke 7:36-50) “…he that is forgiven much Loves much…”, so if you are forgiven (and accept that forgiveness as pure charity) of an unbelievable huge debt created by sin, you will automatically have an unbelievable huge Love (Godly type Love) and I see no other way for humans to obtain this unbelievable huge Love but will listen to you?

If it takes being forgiven of an unbelievable huge debt created by sin to obtain Love, than you will first have to sin? (Sin would have purpose/benefit at least for the person prior to obtaining their initial portion of Godly type Love.)



Briefly:
We do not sin in heaven for at least the following reasons:


Satan is not there.

We have already experienced satan, evil, sin and all the hardships associated with sin.

We do not have a sexual body which causes all kinds of temptations, conflicts, and selfish desires.

There is nothing more to be gained, “We have it all”. Yes, we do not have the same degree of Godly type Love others have, but that just means they Love me more than I can Love them so is that something to envy, lust after, take pride in?

Some might think they would desire to “rule” in heaven, but God/Christ has shown spiritual “rulers” are those who unselfishly serve others, so is it something to really lust after?

Right now, the Spirit is literally “at our elbow”, but He is not visible to us so we can easily quench Him, but with spiritual eyes we will literally see Him, walk with Him, talk with Him, 24/7.

It is not that we “cannot sin”, but there is no reason to sin, no satan to tempt us, and we have lots of wonderful things (helping others most likely without Godly type Love) and the Spirit as a full time partner.
 
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fhansen

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Earth is not heaven and is not designed to be heaven.

God allowed Adam and Eve to sin for a reason, the same reason God allows all mature adults to sin.

It takes a lot more than a strong motive to keep from sinning, since Adam and Eve had a strong motive not to sin and only one way to sin, yet they sinned.

When deity dwelled within a human body unquenched that person did not sin (Christ), so if you allow the indwelling Holy Spirit to be active and unquenched within your body can you stop sinning?

Do you first have to quench the Spirit in order to sin?

Sin has purpose for the nonbelieving sinner and helps some to become children of God, but sin does not have purpose for the Christian and is definitely not needed in heaven.

Sin created an unbelievable huge debt for the sinner.

Sin hurts God.

Yes, if we had not sinned Christ would not have had to go to the cross, but if I had not sinned, I would not have accepted God’s charity (Love/grace/mercy) in the form of forgiveness and thus not have obtained Godly type Love.

God does not want us to sin.

For the most part all the verses on sin do not address: “why God allows us to sin and the benefits of sin”, but you can look at Luke 7.

There is an unbelievable huge benefit to accepting God’s forgiveness for our sins, since Jesus has taught us (Luke 7:36-50) “…he that is forgiven much Loves much…”, so if you are forgiven (and accept that forgiveness as pure charity) of an unbelievable huge debt created by sin, you will automatically have an unbelievable huge Love (Godly type Love) and I see no other way for humans to obtain this unbelievable huge Love but will listen to you?

If it takes being forgiven of an unbelievable huge debt created by sin to obtain Love, than you will first have to sin? (Sin would have purpose/benefit at least for the person prior to obtaining their initial portion of Godly type Love.)



Briefly:
We do not sin in heaven for at least the following reasons:


Satan is not there.

We have already experienced satan, evil, sin and all the hardships associated with sin.

We do not have a sexual body which causes all kinds of temptations, conflicts, and selfish desires.

There is nothing more to be gained, “We have it all”. Yes, we do not have the same degree of Godly type Love others have, but that just means they Love me more than I can Love them so is that something to envy, lust after, take pride in?

Some might think they would desire to “rule” in heaven, but God/Christ has shown spiritual “rulers” are those who unselfishly serve others, so is it something to really lust after?

Right now, the Spirit is literally “at our elbow”, but He is not visible to us so we can easily quench Him, but with spiritual eyes we will literally see Him, walk with Him, talk with Him, 24/7.

It is not that we “cannot sin”, but there is no reason to sin, no satan to tempt us, and we have lots of wonderful things (helping others most likely without Godly type Love) and the Spirit as a full time partner.
Just saying-God wants more from-and most importantly for -us than we often imagine. And He promises to help us achieve it as only He can. Humble faith and willingness is our only part.

And sin has a lot more to do with things other than just sex or sins of the flesh BTW. :) Pride and greed are big factors. Either way we'll continue to struggle with concupiscence, but the Spirit also helps us overcome it.
 
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DM25

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Wait "a test"? So if we pass the test we go to heaven and if we fail the test we go to hell?
Do you see this as man's objective while here on earth?
How are you defining "His will"?
you might read my post 57 also.
Umm no, when did I ever mention salvation in my post when I said a "test"? Do you see you are assuming here? Stop putting words in my mouth. God testing his children has nothing to do with salvation. God tested people all throughout scripture for various reasons, including Abraham. Rewards, blessings, and other reasons all play a role. It's his will to see how his creation and his people behave and who chooses to follow him.
 
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DM25

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It is not that we “cannot sin”, but there is no reason to sin, no satan to tempt us, and we have lots of wonderful things (helping others most likely without Godly type Love) and the Spirit as a full time partner.
Yes it is we cannot sin, and the bible says so

1 John 3:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

When we get glorified bodies WE ARE NOT CAPABLE OF SIN. Our spirits cannot sin, not now or in heaven, as scripture plainly states. Only reason we sin now is because of our fallen flesh, and satan is still around to tempt us too and he will be gone in heaven as well.
 
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bling

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Umm no, when did I ever mention salvation in my post when I said a "test"? Do you see you are assuming here? Stop putting words in my mouth. God testing his children has nothing to do with salvation. God tested people all throughout scripture for various reasons, including Abraham. Rewards, blessings, and other reasons all play a role. It's his will to see how his creation and his people behave and who chooses to follow him.
I ask a question about what "test" you are talking about.
You are suggesting with "to see how" God is gaining information from the "testing", but the test can be only for our benefit where we learn through being tested (it is educational for us and not God).
Can you give some of these "various reasons"?
What "rewards, blessings and other" things are you talking about?
 
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bling

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Yes it is we cannot sin, and the bible says so

1 John 3:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

When we get glorified bodies WE ARE NOT CAPABLE OF SIN. Our spirits cannot sin, not now or in heaven, as scripture plainly states. Only reason we sin now is because of our fallen flesh, and satan is still around to tempt us too and he will be gone in heaven as well.
1 John 3:9 is in the present tense and not something like you suggest in the future when we get our “glorified bodies”. John says NOW “he cannot sin…” yet we know Christians do sin?

If it is “not physically possible” for a person “born of God” to “sin”, than “sin” has to be defined, and not changing the tense. John tells us these “sinless” people are born of God and have God’s seed in them and John does not say: “with glorified bodies”?

Did the angel who went with satan have glorified spiritual bodies?

2 cor. 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Is Paul saying: it is not physically possible for a Christian to be unequally yoked to unbelievers, or warning them to not allow themselves to be unevenly yoked.
 
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PROPHECYKID

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I have a theory on the age-old question. If Adam and Eve were supposed to live in paradise for eternity, and there was no sin, why did they sin? Most people reply bluntly with "free will". But if that were the case, wouldn't the same argument be made when we get to heaven we will have free will to sin? Of course not... So this is what I think.

Well I have always had a question which sort of goes along with this. The question I used to wonder is, if we will have free will in heaven, how do we know that we won't sin again like how Satan did when before him, there was no sin.

I asked that question at my church and an older brother answered by saying that in heaven we won't have free will. I never heard that said before. But he said, the choice we are making now, is to spend eternity with God so when we are finally saved, the choice we made is already sealed so it would be now impossible to sin and we wont be able to choose to sin.
 
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bling

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Well I have always had a question which sort of goes along with this. The question I used to wonder is, if we will have free will in heaven, how do we know that we won't sin again like how Satan did when before him, there was no sin.

I asked that question at my church and an older brother answered by saying that in heaven we won't have free will. I never heard that said before. But he said, the choice we are making now, is to spend eternity with God so when we are finally saved, the choice we made is already sealed so it would be now impossible to sin and we wont be able to choose to sin.
Read my post 61
 
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DM25

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1 John 3:9 is in the present tense and not something like you suggest in the future when we get our “glorified bodies”. John says NOW “he cannot sin…” yet we know Christians do sin?

If it is “not physically possible” for a person “born of God” to “sin”, than “sin” has to be defined, and not changing the tense. John tells us these “sinless” people are born of God and have God’s seed in them and John does not say: “with glorified bodies”?

Did the angel who went with satan have glorified spiritual bodies?

2 cor. 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Is Paul saying: it is not physically possible for a Christian to be unequally yoked to unbelievers, or warning them to not allow themselves to be unevenly yoked.
Sprit vs flesh. The spirit cannot sin, it's impossible, and the spirit goes to heaven (along with the new glorified body). The flesh can still, we still have the flesh that will die. Our spirit is perfected and can't sin as scripture says. Therefore we can't sin in heaven.

1 John is indeed talking about present-tense. How our spirit in the present-tense can't sin. Our new spirit is born of God, our flesh is born of Adam which has sin.
 
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DM25

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Well I have always had a question which sort of goes along with this. The question I used to wonder is, if we will have free will in heaven, how do we know that we won't sin again like how Satan did when before him, there was no sin.

I asked that question at my church and an older brother answered by saying that in heaven we won't have free will. I never heard that said before. But he said, the choice we are making now, is to spend eternity with God so when we are finally saved, the choice we made is already sealed so it would be now impossible to sin and we wont be able to choose to sin.
It's not that we won't have free will. It's just we can't sin. God has free will, but he cant sin. Where there is no evil and no devil there is no sin, so it's physically impossible. We still have free will, but when sin is not in the picture, we can't do it anyway!
 
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JohnRabbit

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I don't see any reference to a set of commandments or a set of laws until Moses. The Scripture says that death reigned between Adam and Moses, but the actual written law for the children of Israel did not come into being until Mt Sinai when Moses received the Ten Commandments.
interesting!

God spoke to cain about sin in genesis 4:7, which means sin was in the world at that time, which means there was law! (see also romans 4:15)

death reigned between adam and moses because sin was obviously imputed.

in genesis 39, potiphar's wife demanded that joseph sleep with her and joseph refused.

here's what joseph said
"How then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?”

so how did joseph know that it was a sin against God to commit adultery?

paul tells us how in romans 7:7
"I would not have known sin except through the law".

so, adam and eve broke the first commandment, in that, they listened to satan rather than God - see romans 6:16.

they broke the fifth commandment by disobeying their parent - see luke 3:38.

they took what was not theirs to take, thereby breaking the eighth commandment.

and finally, they broke the tenth commandment, by coveting what wasn't theirs, from genesis 3:6 -
it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise

so now let's look at this verse:

Romans 5:13(NKJV)
13(For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

which simply means that until the law was given in codified form to the COI, the law was in place and sin was being imputed, the next verse 14 says so! :oldthumbsup:
 
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Doveaman

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I have a theory on the age-old question. If Adam and Eve were supposed to live in paradise for eternity, and there was no sin, why did they sin? Most people reply bluntly with "free will". But if that were the case, wouldn't the same argument be made when we get to heaven we will have free will to sin? Of course not...
The premise of your reasoning is not credible.

In heaven we will have free will to sin just as Adam and Eve did, but, unlike them, we will freely choose not to.
 
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DM25

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The premise of your reasoning is not credible.

In heaven we will have free will to sin just as Adam and Eve did, but, unlike them, we will freely choose not to.
Umm no 1 John says we CAN'T sin. How can our new spirit and new glorified body sin? This is ridiculous.... God can't sin and he has free will. Just as we can't and we will still have free will. How can you possibly say we will be able to sin when scripture says the devil and all evil and sin will be wiped out? Absolutely ludicrous. I think it's borderline satanic to make the notion that when we are in heaven with God we can still have the free will to sin but we won't want to... That's just plain wrong and I question your motive for saying that.

Unlike them we will freely choose not to? Umm the devil tempted them to sin, the devil will not be around in heaven. So you are WRONG. There will NOT BE ANY SIN IN HEAVEN AND IT WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE TO SIN BECAUSE OF THAT. That's plainly satanic what you said that there will still be an opportunity for sin in heaven.
 
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interesting!

God spoke to cain about sin in genesis 4:7, which means sin was in the world at that time, which means there was law! (see also romans 4:15)

death reigned between adam and moses because sin was obviously imputed.

in genesis 39, potiphar's wife demanded that joseph sleep with her and joseph refused.

here's what joseph said
"How then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?”

so how did joseph know that it was a sin against God to commit adultery?

paul tells us how in romans 7:7
"I would not have known sin except through the law".

so, adam and eve broke the first commandment, in that, they listened to satan rather than God - see romans 6:16.

they broke the fifth commandment by disobeying their parent - see luke 3:38.

they took what was not theirs to take, thereby breaking the eighth commandment.

and finally, they broke the tenth commandment, by coveting what wasn't theirs, from genesis 3:6 -
it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise

so now let's look at this verse:

Romans 5:13(NKJV)
13(For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

which simply means that until the law was given in codified form to the COI, the law was in place and sin was being imputed, the next verse 14 says so! :oldthumbsup:
I wonder if it was having a godly conscience, such as was described by Paul for those who were without the law in Romans?
 
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I have a theory on the age-old question. If Adam and Eve were supposed to live in paradise for eternity, and there was no sin, why did they sin?

There was sin so the issue is with the assumption there was no sin. Also, someone can sin if sin didn't exist because there was a first sin whereas before that first sin there was no sin yet.
 
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JohnRabbit

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I wonder if it was having a godly conscience, such as was described by Paul for those who were without the law in Romans?
well if we look at it, i wouldn't think that to be the case.

they were like babes with no propensity to do good or evil.

notice in genesis 3:7 that after eating the fruit, adam and eve's mindset changed.

God stated in verse 22 that at that time, they came to know good and evil.

so since adam and eve did not share the same mindset at that time with the group to which paul refers, i don't see the corollary.
 
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JohnRabbit

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the assumption there was no sin.
"where there is no law there is no transgression"


Also, someone can sin if sin didn't exist because there was a first sin whereas before that first sin there was no sin yet.
"where there is no law there is no transgression"
 
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JohnRabbit

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Umm no 1 John says we CAN'T sin.
well let's take a look at that.

first let's back up to verse 7:

1 John 3:7(NKJV)
7
Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

so if you practice something it becomes your habit to do as you practice, and so in verse 8, john is also saying that if you practice sinning then that's what you're really all about.

so how does one practice righteousness?

1 John 2:4-6(NKJV)
4
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
6He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

we practice righteousness by keeping the commandments! (see psalms 119:172) :oldthumbsup:

remember, in exodus 16:4, God said of the COI "that I may test them, whether they will walk in My law or not"


1 John 1:6-7(NKJV)

6If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness (practice sinning), we lie and do not practice the truth.
7But if we walk in the light as He is in the light (practice righteousness), we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

john is making a distinction between the children of God and the children of satan in how they live their lives.

in verse 9, using nkjv and kjv:


1 John 3:9(NKJV)
9
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

1 John 3:9(KJV)
9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

the word "born" in this context would've been more properly translated "begotten", which would better make the distinction to which john was pointing.

the word "born" in the verse is from the greek "gennaō". in 1john 5:1, the word is used three times in the same sentence and it gets different translations in the kjv's versions.

here's how young's translated the verse:


1 John 3:9(YLT)
9
every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten.

it's little better but they still say "he is not able to sin", which is misleading.

and here's esv's version:


1 John 3:9(ESV)
9
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.

they get the sentiment right, but use "born" rather than "begotten", which would translate the verse correctly.

No one begotten of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been begotten of God.

not that he "cannot" sin or is "no able to", but rather cannot keep sinning.

john simply lets us know the difference between those of us who are practicing righteousness and the ones who are practicing sinning.
 
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