Climate change - hoax or reality?

mukk_in said:

During his ongoing state visit to the UK the President suggested that developing countries like India, China and Russia are irresponsible polluters. Although cities like Delhi have the worst air quality, the American Lung Association (www.lung.org/our-initiatives/healthy-air/sota/) reported in 2018 that 133.9 million Americans are living in highly polluted environments. That number is up from 2017. Big cities like New York, LA, Chicago, Houston, Philadelphia, Indianapolis, Fairbanks are all on that list.

As someone who's done considerable testing for the EPA on PM, VOC and THC emissions from wood burning stoves frequently used for winter heating, I was wondering who really is responsible for pollution and global warming. Is it even real? If so, how do we fix it?

All are welcome to debate.

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it could be both/and type thing. The earth does have warming-cooling cycles but human activity probably accelerates it. whos at fault? those who have the highest populations are probably the worst contributors. Developing nations typically don't have recycling programs or responsible waste management and garbage is dumbed or burned to get rid of it not to mention clean energy power stations or green environments are not a priority but instead whatever is cheapest. Developed nations, on the other hand, have a lot of clean energy (nuclear power is considered clean energy) have a lot of recycling programs and have very refined waste management systems but tend to have a high consumption rate per person so "waste" is relative.

the west doesn't like the idea of using less energy if it means changing their lifestyle. they will buy LEDs to replace their CFs that replaced their incandescents but they won't change their habits to use less energy. Everywhere else uses LEDs not to save energy but to save money, they are driven by what is most cost-effective where the west is driven by convenience.

mukk_in said:

During his ongoing state visit to the UK the President suggested that developing countries like India, China and Russia are irresponsible polluters. Although cities like Delhi have the worst air quality, the American Lung Association (www.lung.org/our-initiatives/healthy-air/sota/) reported in 2018 that 133.9 million Americans are living in highly polluted environments. That number is up from 2017. Big cities like New York, LA, Chicago,

Houston, Philadelphia, Indianapolis, Fairbanks are all on that list.

As someone who's done considerable testing for the EPA on PM, VOC and THC emissions from wood burning stoves frequently used for winter heating, I was wondering who really is responsible for pollution and global warming. Is it even real? If so, how do we fix it?

All are welcome to debate.

Click to expand...

The presidents point is valid. The issue is not Climate Change (the preferred term now, because it is so imprecise) but doing something significant ABOUT Climate Change.

It is foolish to take seriously the notion that if the worst polluters in the world have no interest in stopping what they do, and we cannot prevent them from polluting, that a secure, pollution-free planet is attainable in fairly short order IF ONLY the USA were to change its policies.

And that is to say nothing about our ability to do so (highly questionable) or the motives behind the politicians who want the power to control almost every aspect of life, using "Climate Control" as their justification (worth examining).

@DamianWarS It's not though, the fuel cycle never got closed. And a large supply of fissile material that fuels French nuclear reactors, is linked to slavery in Niger

The focus should be making sure people have enough land that they can live on. And not running down the environmental and capital stock.

Albion said:

The presidents point is valid. The issue is not Climate Change (the preferred term now, because it is so imprecise) but doing something significant ABOUT Climate Change.

It is foolish to take seriously the notion that if the worst polluters in the world have no interest in stopping what they do, and we cannot prevent them from polluting, that a secure, pollution-free planet is attainable in fairly short order IF ONLY the USA were to change its policies.

And that is to say nothing about our ability to do so (highly questionable) or the motives behind the politicians who want the power to control almost every aspect of life, using "Climate Control" as their justification (worth examining).

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Maybe the US could impose tariffs on the high polluters?

RichardY said:

@DamianWarS It's not though, the fuel cycle never got closed. And a large supply of fissile material that fuels French nuclear reactors, is linked to slavery in Niger

The focus should be making sure people have enough land that they can live on. And not running down the environmental and capital stock.

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I'm not sure what you mean by this. nuclear energy has a byproduct that is contained and not released into the atmosphere thus is considered clean energy. irresponsible sourcing of the materials involved doesn't make it less clean. It's like saying my iPhone isn't a smartphone because it was made in a sweatshop. The latter might be true but it doesn't void the benefits of the device. I'm from Canada where their CANDU reactors are the safest in the world and fuel costs are low so I might be approaching this from a best-case scenario.

Carl Emerson said:

English wine was made in Roman times and in the 1500-1600 period

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And that proves what? Wine is made in the UK now, and wine is made where I live, which has a similar climate.

RichardY said:

@Zoii Experts on the payroll, of States and Corporations. A self-reinforcing system.

No one is a climate denier, it's an absurd proposition and pseudo-religious.

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If you have a solid research background and academic qualifications in Climatology, I shall accept your opinion. Otherwise you are like a bicycle shop giving advice on how to repair a Ferrari.

My generation cannot afford to listen to the ignorant, only the qualified. Its too serious a topic.

mukk_in said:

During his ongoing state visit to the UK the President suggested that developing countries like India, China and Russia are irresponsible polluters. Although cities like Delhi have the worst air quality, the American Lung Association (www.lung.org/our-initiatives/healthy-air/sota/) reported in 2018 that 133.9 million Americans are living in highly polluted environments. That number is up from 2017. Big cities like New York, LA, Chicago, Houston, Philadelphia, Indianapolis, Fairbanks are all on that list.

As someone who's done considerable testing for the EPA on PM, VOC and THC emissions from wood burning stoves frequently used for winter heating, I was wondering who really is responsible for pollution and global warming. Is it even real? If so, how do we fix it?

All are welcome to debate.

Click to expand...

We have done better in some areas in regard to pollution, and we should continue that.

The biggest problems are in the big cities ... so start there. Give up their automobiles, give up their electricity, get rid of all flagellant animals etc. and see how it goes? I'm sure at least one of the cities would volunteer to set the example for the rest of the world.

What most of you are forgetting is that this Climate Change controversy is not--NOT--a matter only of what science or scientists think, not any more than the national economy is the sole domain of academicians.

It is nothing unless GOVERNMENTS (read politicians) are in charge of whatever policies are adopted, which of course they are!

But you don't want to hear that, I realize. And even less, take account of it.

Sparagmos said:

And that proves what? Wine is made in the UK now, and wine is made where I live, which has a similar climate.

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Just noting that we have had warm periods before...

Zoii said:

If you have a solid research background and academic qualifications in Climatology, I shall accept your opinion. Otherwise you are like a bicycle shop giving advice on how to repair a Ferrari.

My generation cannot afford to listen to the ignorant, only the qualified. Its too serious a topic.

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Check out Professor Duncan Steel who released a paper on how the earths axis and rotation has had a much greater effect on climate than previously thought, many times more than the so called 'greenhouse effect"

eleos1954 said:

We have done better in some areas in regard to pollution, and we should continue that.

The biggest problems are in the big cities ... so start there. Give up their automobiles, give up their electricity, get rid of all flagellant animals etc. and see how it goes? I'm sure at least one of the cities would volunteer to set the example for the rest of the world.

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So go back to the stone age? give up freedom? Give up automobiles, nope never, give up electricity, there would be riots, give up animals? This country is so attached to animals, they would rather give up their spouses or children before a animal. This enviormental extremism is a attack on man & civilization itself, the earth is going through a natural cycle, man can adapt, they will go where the climate is better.

Orthodoxjay1 said:

So go back to the stone age? give up freedom? Give up automobiles, nope never, give up electricity, there would be riots, give up animals? This country is so attached to animals, they would rather give up their spouses or children before a animal. This enviormental extremism is a attack on man & civilization itself, the earth is going through a natural cycle, man can adapt, they will go where the climate is better.

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well ... my answer was actually "in jest" .... but that is exactly what some are proposing to "solve" the c02 issues ;o)

Jonathan Walkerin said:

So you think the current levels of CO2 have nothing to do with human actions. Data really does not support this but rather shows that our current state of industrialization and increased CO2 emissions go together.

Current & Historical Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Levels Graph

But let us just pretend this is not happening, well some pretend it anyways. Why shouldn`t we limit our CO2 transmissions to slow climate change even if it was caused mostly by natural means like volcanic activity or whatever.

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Increased CO2 does not cause climate change, plain and simple. Increased temperature causes more CO2, not the other way around.

mukk_in said:

global warming. Is it even real? If so, how do we fix it?

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1st, let's define terms. By 'global warming', it is generally meant man-made or anthropogenic global warming (AGW). AGW is the greatest hoax in the history of mankind.

It is obviously political driven. EVEN IF everything alarmists say is true, I would still not support their agenda of increasing taxes and global control of energy. Why? Some generation of humans has to be the last. I pray they die free.

As Christians we understand our responsibility to treasure the gifts that we have been given. Indeed treasuring the gifts we have been given is in part a reflection of how we feel about the giver. The world and the wonder of its natural resources in which we live is a gift and our relationship with the environment reflects our relationship with God.

If we trash the garden it will not feed us. If we trash part of the garden and keep one part pretty we are hobbling its capacity to nurture us. Climate change is real, and there is no doubt many reasons for that, however since the Industrial Revolution we have seen increasing CO2 emissions and increasing populations, coupled with the destruction of forests (one of nature's ways of dealing with CO2) and I think we need to accept that we may not be so much till the garden as we might be plundering it.

It is no longer good enough to have pretty suburban streets living in an illusion and not seeing the filth emitting power station that supports it. This is one earth, and whilst this earth may have many gardens, in a very real sense it is one garden.


The fifth mark of mission is a response to our call to till and keep. In so doing we honor the Lord, the Giver and Sustainer of all.

Jonathan Walkerin said:

So we should not do any actions to save our planet because God is in control and it is futile anyway ?

Climate hoax is intended to hide God but cooking the planet will reveal him in all of his glory for all the dying species so what is to worry about ?

That sounds about as stupid thinking as I have seen on these forums.

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The planet doesn't need saving! The people on it do. We are not in control of cooking the planet, we can't stop it even if you wanted to.

It's common sense to not go on intentionally polluting the air. We want to breathe in clean air! We don't want to live in dirty air like in some Asian cities. But this has nothing to do with the warming of the earth and climate change. Simply respect God's earth, don't litter, recycle, don't pollute, be reasonable.... but don't fall for the man-made climate change hoax.

Quite certain there should be legit concern on climate change.

Some folks may blow the threat a tad out of proportion though, but we should be concerned.

bhsmte said:

Quite certain there should be legit concern on climate change.

Some folks may blow the threat a tad out of proportion though, but we should be concerned.

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There is nothing to be concerned about. Jesus is coming soon and God has full control and authority over the earth.