The Book of Acts isn't just for Dispensationalists!!!

Contenders Edge said:

That all depends on what period of Jewish history you are referring to. Jewish theology has its foundation in the Torah (five books of Moses) to which the rest of the Old Testament scriptures were later added. It is these scriptures which Jesus said spoke of Him and to which the Apostles appealed in their case for the Gospel.

As for the Mitzvot, I do not know what that is or at what point in Jewish history that came about. As for the Talmud, that did not come about until as early as the third century A.D. and from what I understand, it has been regarded as a commentary or series of commentaries on the Torah and Jewish tradition.

As for the establishment of oral laws, that is not possible or even practical for any society. Any political or religious system that is reliant on oral law and tradition lacks stability and ultimately fails within a short amount of time. In order for a set of laws to be firmly established, they have to be in written form and any government or religious system must be founded on a written precepts and creeds in order survive and be preserved.

Yet whatever the case may have been, it was these traditions that the Pharisee had imposed upon the people and which were condemned by our Lord because they were not a part of the laws of Moses by which the Pharisees professed to abide in and it was these traditions and laws that Jesus said they were teaching for doctrine instead of the actual scriptures. (Mt. )

The Jews rejected Christ because they were expecting a Messiah who would deliver them from their Roman occupiers but there is no evidence, biblically speaking, that any pseudopigrapha writings influenced the Jews to reject Jesus. He was rejected for reasons other than anything the pseudopigraphal writing may have said. If the psuedopigraphal writings had been a prominent influence in the thinking of the people, the inspired scriptures would have addressed the fact.

If there are Messianics who do not accept Jesus as being divine, then they are false professors of the faith.

Never does scripture call Christ Israel. He is their King just as he is our King, but He is never called Israel and scripture makes it clear that the promises made to Israel were never made null and void despite their rejection of Christ and that they are still invited to receive forgiveness just as the rest of us are. (Rom. 11) The promises made to the Jews are still in effect and we are warned not to exalt ourselves against the Jews (Rom. 11:18-21) and it is written that they will not continue to remain in unbelief. (Rom. 11:15)

Even before the reestablishment of Israel as a nation, God had not cast off His chosen people entirely and He never will. As long as God keeps His promises to the Jews, we can also be confident that He will also keep the promises that He has made to us; His Church.

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Is there a nation God has cast off? What does that look like when He does?

God kept his promise to the Jews. That is fulfilled now.

Carl Emerson said:

The first 5 chapters are an embarrassment to the church...

Preachers skip the bits about sharing and community.

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Probably because they don’t understand the history or the Bible well. Same with Revelation and any of the promises that have conditions although the latter is likely from a desire to please people.

Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24 either goes ignored or twisted beyond recognition to mean something else. These three verses hold the key to properly interpreting Paul's reference to "law" and "works" in his letter to the Galatians and his letter to the Romans. Christians were being deceived by a sect of Jews to think they had to FIRST be circumcised in order to be saved instead of FIRST trusting God's grace through faith in Christ. For if a person makes circumcision the basis of the foundation of their faith, then they are making a work (or the Law) as the basis for their faith and it would not be God's grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. This is why Paul spoke in the way that he did. Paul was not speaking against all law or all works as many in the Belief Alone Camp propose.

The Old Covenant is no more.
We are under a New Covenant with New Commands.

Grip Docility said:

I appreciate your feedback, and understand your perspective.

What I meant about the 11 is that they were Jews.... by practice for quite a bit into acts.

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I guess I don’t see a problem with them being Christ-believing Jews or Christian Jews. To me it’s not either or. It is today but it certainly wasn’t for them, from what I read. Christians were originally thought of as a Jewish sect.

Paul took the ceremonies, Law keeping and so forth out of the System of Christianity... and placed emphasis on faith.

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Well Peter was really the first to do this from a vision he had from God.

2P2P is a lens to over divide scripture to see the difference between the Diaspora Epistles and the Gentiles focused epistles.

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What does it mean? Why P and why 2?

The notation is there that Jesus preached a strongly Jewish message in preparation for the covenant shift, thus Jesus gospel is different, as it is to the Jews, Pre DBR.

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What’s DBR? His message was the same but to the Jew first and then the Gentiles in my view.

The Diaspora writings are uniquely more Works focused than Paul’s epistles to Gentiles.

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I don’t know what those are.

Personally, I see all the NT as congruent... but... 2P2P did help me with context.

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I still don’t get it.

I’m not 2P2P... in my understanding.

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Since I still don’t know what that is, Icannot comment.

Thanks for your response.

To All Who Will Hear:

The context of Galatians 2:4 is Galatians 2:3 that says,

"But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:" (Galatians 2:4).

It is talking about the same circumcision (i.e. Circumcision Salvationism) in the Jerusalem Counsel in Acts 15. This is obvious, unless somebody wants to distort the text beyond recognition to defend an incorrect belief. Basically what many do today is that they insert their presuppositions or world views into the text when they read it, and they do not derive their belief from Scripture. They hear some Pastor give ear tickling messages and so they latch on to this belief and then they try to somehow make it work when reading the Bible (When in reality it doesn't fit or work).

To All Who Will Hear:

The claim that there are 1,050 New Testament commands is inaccurate. Finis Jennings Dake came up with this list and he bases the commands off verbs and not as how they naturally appear. There are also a lot of of identical repeat commands, as well. It's his own arrangement of the commands, and not how the commands normally appear in the New Testament.

I have counted approximately 600 plus New Testament commands, and the list is being carefully re-worked over to determine the accuracy of what is a valid general set of NT commands for the church today. These commands are in our Bible, and Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). Even Paul said that what he had written should be regarded as the Lord's commandments (1 Corinthians 14:37). So if a person is against the commands in the Bible, they are against God because the commands are not given to us as helpful optional suggestions but they are given to us as commands or things that we must do.

What is silly is that some may try to quote verses to refute the necessity of obeying God's commands, but it will not work. The commands will still be there in their New Testament as a testament against the one who tries to speak against them.

One proposed list here is pretty obvious that they don't know what they are talking about by the kind of verses that they quote.

Isaiah 29:13, Mark 7:7, 1 Timothy 4:1-3, and Titus 1:14 are talking about the commandments of men and not the commandments of God. If a person were to do a study on God's commands in the New Testament, they would see lots of commands from God that they are told to obey.

1 Timothy 1:4 does not even mention God's commands.

Colossians 2:18-20 is talking about the ceremonial laws from the Old Law (the Torah) and it is not talking about the commands given to us by Jesus and His followers. The individual conveniently left out the part of the context that tells us that these are ceremonial laws.

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days." (Colossians 2:16).

These ceremonial commands are a part of the Torah (the Old Law), and they do not repeated in the New Law or New Testament commands (given to us by Jesus and His followers).

Proverbs 30:5-6 is instruction that a person should take themselves if they say that we do not have to obey the many commands given to us by Jesus and His followers. For Jesus says, why do you call me Lord, Lord if you do not do what I say?" (Luke 6:46).

As for the quote of 1 Corinthians 15:2:
The gospel was never in disagreement with the necessity of holy living as a part of God's grace or salvation. In fact, the purpose Christ died for us was to cleanse the church with the washing of the water of the Word so that Christ may present to Himself a church that is holy and blameless (See Ephesians 5:25-27). For the grace of God does not teach us to minimize sin. The grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should righteously and godly in this present world (See Titus 2:11-12). For if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus and the doctrine according to godliness, they are proud, and they know nothing (See 1 Timothy 6:2-4). James says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble (James 4:6).

Grip Docility said:

Excellent!

On the Apostle Paul...

Because Judas was a (type) for Satan (AntiType)... we see that Judas was blessed to work with God the Son and even had access to follow through in faith, beyond Christ’s DBR to salvation. Unfortunately, Judas never believed and instead betrayed God the Son. He is recorded as lost, which is very rare in scripture.

The Apostles, after Christ ascended... in Acts Of the Apostles 1:21-26, chose two men, prayed, then cast lots over the men to see who was to replace Judas. Mathias was Chosen.

This is a grey area. Jesus had instructed the Apostles to wait for Pentecost. It is conjecture to number Mathias one of the 12 or not.

In Acts 7, a man Named Saul guarded the cloaks of the men that stoned Steven and fervently HUNTED Christians... as “Saul” eludes and Acts reveals later.

Saul was the poster boy for the Jew that desires to serve God By stomping out “the false insurrection of The Way - Jewish term for followers of Jesus at the time-“.

Just as The Children Of Israel heard God in the Pentateuch, so Saul, while on the road to Damascus heard God. Saul is asked why he is persecuting God. Saul asked, who he was Persecuting. God replied; “I AM Jesus”. (Acts Of the Apostles 9)

Saul became Paul... and was forever changed!

Paul began his ministry and had to deal with the whole... “Oh, you’re not here to kill us, but guide us as the Chosen Of Jesus” gig for quite a while.

Paul, a fervent Pharisee Of Pharisee, Who by His own admission, kept the Law better than most Pharisee’s began to do something, even Peter hadn’t done.

Paul dismantled the Jewish customs and even railed against attempting to keep the Law for Salvation. Read Deuteronomy 1 - Deuteronomy 31:26 to get the full picture of what this meant.

Paul became the Gentile Dog (Goyem) ambassador of the Gospel and planted a major portion of the 7 churches, through travel and writing. We have 14 of his epistles in the NT (Hebrews is up to dispute as Paul’s, though it seems his work)...as only St. Paul would place even the Stone 10, in the Old Covenant.

Paul, boldly swept away the Judaising that attempted to bind the BOC back to the Old Covenant... and thusly is the very foundation of what we know to be “Christian Doctrine”... Post Red Letters.

From the epistles of Romans all the way to Philemon... we know Paul is the author. All following books are geared towards Messianic Jews. All scripture is for the BOC, but paying attention to Context within the Diaspora writings (or Jew centric NT writings is imperative!

Paul is unique to all Post Christ writers, because he attributes all of his words to DIRECT revelation from Jesus Christ, Ascended.

This is why it is difficult to name Paul one of the 12, or to say he is simply the Sole Ambassador to the solidifying doctrine of the BOC, as we know it today.

If Paul was not in scripture... Sola Fide (Faith Alone) would be enormously complex to proof.

Suggestions on more info on Paul?

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“Paul became the Gentile Dog (Goyem) ambassador of the Gospel”


I just call him a Jewish ambassador to the Gentiles on behalf of the Gospel though the other Apostles in both scripture and history were also taking the Gospel to the Gentiles as well. But that Paul preached the Gospel to more Gentiles than all the rest of the Apostles cannot be denied.


“Paul dismantled the Jewish customs and even railed against attempting to keep the Law for Salvation. Read Deuteronomy 1 - Deuteronomy 31:26 to get the full picture of what this meant.”


What Paul did was make clear that we are not saved by keeping the law, but that we are saved by grace through faith alone (Eph. 2:8) and he went to great lengths to explain what that means throughout many of his epistles, but it would be inaccurate to say that he went about to abolish Jewish customs. That was never the objective of the Apostles. Their objective was simply to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ and salvation by way of God's grace. It is also made clear that works serve as evidence of a transformed life in Christ.

Do not forget where Paul wrote that when he was among his Jewish brethren, he conducted himself as a Jew and when he was with the Gentiles, he conducted himself as a Gentile, meaning, he did not impose Jewish customs upon Gentiles nor Gentile customs upon the Jews (1 Cor. 9:20) in order that He might be better able to win both to Christ. He also had his disciple Timothy circumcised so as not to offend the Jews amongst whom he lived (Acts 16:1-3), yet it was done with the clear understanding that the reasons for Timothy’s circumcision had nothing to do with salvation.


“Paul, boldly swept away the Judaising that attempted to bind the BOC back to the Old Covenant... and thusly is the very foundation of what we know to be “Christian Doctrine”... Post Red Letters.”


Scripture indicates that the Judaizers were a constant problem for the Church. They first come on the scene in Acts chapter 15 where it is first mentioned of Paul’s disputes with them. As to whether the Gentiles should be taught to obey the Jewish laws was a debatable subject amongst the Apostles until James, with Peter concurring, declared that the Gentile believers be subject to none of the Jewish customs (the dietary and cleanliness laws) but to abstain from eating blood, the meat of strangled animals, idolatry, and sexual immorality. (Acts 15:20) knowing that they themselves fell short of keeping the Jewish laws. The debate, at least amongst the Apostles and accompanying elders had been settled, but the Judaizing of Gentile believers continued as is made plain in the book of Galatians and Hebrews.

It is a shame that followers of Christ are not nearly as bold in confronting heresy and false doctrine in this day as the Apostles were in their day and the false doctrines and heresies that have entered and established themselves within our ranks are more numerous than even in that first generation of believers.


“…it is difficult to name Paul one of the 12…”


Two evidences of Apostleship: Being personally commissioned and taught of Christ, which Paul was (Gal. 1:11-12) and possessed the same gifts of the Spirit that the rest of the Apostles did. And it is by these two things that claims of Apostleship must be tested.

Contenders Edge said:

“

“Paul dismantled the Jewish
What Paul did was make clear that we are not saved by keeping the law, but that we are saved by grace through faith alone (Eph. 2:8) and he went to great lengths to explain what that means throughout many of his epistlesJewish customs. That was never the objective of the Apostles. Their objective was simply to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ and salvation by way of God's grace. It is also made clear that works serve as evidence of a transformed life in Christ.

Do not forget where Paul wrote that when he was among his Jewish brethren, he conducted himself as a Jew and when he was with the Gentiles, he conducted himself as a Gentile, meaning, he did not impose Jewish customs upon Gentiles nor Gentile customs upon the Jews (1 Cor. 9:20) in order that He might be better able to win both to Christ. He also had his disciple Timothy circumcised so as not to offend the Jews amongst whom he lived (Acts 16:1-3), yet it was done with the clear understanding that the reasons for Timothy’s circumcision had nothing to do with salvation

It is a shame that followers of Christ are not nearly as bold in confronting heresy and false doctrine in this day as the Apostles were in their day and the false doctrines and heresies that have entered and established themselves within our ranks are more numerous than even in that first generation of believers.


“…it is difficult to name Paul one of the 12…”


Two evidences of Apostleship: Being personally commissioned and taught of Christ, which Paul was (Gal. 1:11-12) and possessed the same gifts of the Spirit that the rest of the Apostles did. And it is by these two things that claims of Apostleship must be tested.

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One is not allowed to point out heresy. One is not allowed to say that the Devil himself is not a Christian or one is silenced. Peace at any price.

Grip Docility said:

Diaspora gospels... To the 12 Tribes... these start with Hebrews and go forward to Revelations. These are Jew centric and focus on the works that naturally flow from Sola Fide. Paul focuses on the Gentiles.

As Galatians says... Galatians 2:8

2P calls Jesus pre DBR (Death Burial and Resurrection) Gospel the Jewish Kingdom Gospel, And Paul’s Gospel (Post DBR) the Gospel Of Grace.

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Why do you think Paul neither knew Christ nor understood him but had thoughts totally different?

(2 Plans)

Indeed Peter did receive the vision, but it was the Lords way of preparing him to understand Paul’s Coming message to the Gentiles. Remember it comes to him after Paul’s conversion... Acts of the Apostles 9... Peter has his vision in Acts 10.

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Why do you think that what Paul wrote he invented and Jesus knew nothing of grace but preached a gospel without grace?

I am not 2P2P... as I see the Diaspora Messages simply telling Works minded Jews why Faith Alone is superior to Works based thinking.

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What about works that come from faith being ultimately superior?

Grip Docility said:

Many people miss the difference between Israel and the BOC. I bind Gentiles to dogs to refer to the scraps off the masters table verse.

He became all things to all men. I only hold back on this because people that are not Sola Fide are too in the milk to fully understand it’s implications.

To the Jew, like a Jew.
To the gentile, like the gentile.
To the weak in faith, like the weak in faith.
To the one not under the law, not under the law, though upholding the law of Christ.

I became all things to all men... that the imperishable treasures can be won for Christ.

Paraphrased by myself

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Men not belonging to him are perishable