Treasury will again borrow $1 trillion to pay for Trump tax cuts, spending

Acts2:38 said:

Yes, he did double.

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wrong question. My answer was in regards to "double standard"

Double standard = In the sense no one complained about it
...Just wanted to point out a simple fact, that no one complained about the doubling of debt, which is indeed true.

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iirc, quite a few were concerned about it. At the time, it was mostly Republicans but to say "no one" complained is incorrect.

The topic is deficits. You jumped into the conversation talking about Obama increasing the debt. Forgive me for presuming you, as many others, don't know the difference.

Acts2:38 said:

Yes, he did double.

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No, he didn't double it. He may have come close, but he didn't get there. Obama didn't even take office until Q2 of FY2009. FY 2009 is the one in which the deficit:GDP ratio more than tripled - some of that debt was racked up before he even took office. There's no way to skew these numbers to say that he actually doubled it:


US Federal Debt - plus charts and analysis

Never said otherwise. Just wanted to point out a simple fact, that no one complained about the doubling of debt, which is indeed true.

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Acts2:38 said:

First, this comment wasn't applied to you.

Second, The OP'er is basically trashing on conservatives about this topic, yet I highly doubt they were concerned when the same happened under obama. That, my friend, is a double standard on their part.

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Again, there are good reasons and bad reasons to accrue debt. Some are elective; some are force on you. An actual double standard in this case would require that the conditions under which that debt was accrued were at least roughly comparable. But they weren't, so your allegation is flawed.

rambot said:

You slash your income.
And the problem remains the expenditures?

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Tax revenue has increased since the tax cuts took effect. So yes expenditures are the problem.

grasping the after wind said:

Tax revenue has increased since the tax cuts took effect. So yes expenditures are the problem.

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Federal tax revenue declined 0.4% in 2018 (source WSJ)

grasping the after wind said:

Tax revenue has increased since the tax cuts took effect. So yes expenditures are the problem.

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FenderTL5 said:

Federal tax revenue declined 0.4% in 2018 (source WSJ)

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So, at a time when the population, theoretically could handle their tax burden because of a booming economy, tax revenues go down?

How does that help?

FenderTL5 said:

Federal tax revenue declined 0.4% in 2018 (source WSJ)

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Yet this source says differently.

Why 2018 Federal Tax Collections Rose Even Though Corporate Tax Revenue Fell | Craig Eyermann

rjs330 said:

Yet this source says differently.

Why 2018 Federal Tax Collections Rose Even Though Corporate Tax Revenue Fell | Craig Eyermann

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I'd be inclined to believe a statement from the Treasury department over a blog with a graphic labelled "Author's calculations". NOT to say they're wrong; that's just my immediate response.

FenderTL5 said:

Not really. debt and deficit are not the same thing.
Yes, the debt doubled but the Obama administration at least made an effort to reduce the deficit. Given the deficit increases, without being addressed, Trump will increase the debt dramatically more than Obama did.

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Our great (and great great) grandchildren are probably “good for it”.

And spending IS a problem. Neither side can cut back on spending. Government is addicted to our money. It doesn't matter who's in office or whose in control of Congress. They can't stop spending.

I don't think they want to because as long as they are handing money people will vote for them. And that includes conservatives as well as liberals. What do your conservative congressmen say? That they will bring money to your state. What if they said "im going to Congress to make sure we cut our revenue from the Feds" Would they get voted in? It always seems we want money cut, just not ours. Just like the liberals want higher taxes, but when they get hosed on higher taxes they complain.

rjs330 said:

And spending IS a problem. Neither side can cut back on spending. Government is addicted to our money. It doesn't matter who's in office or whose in control of Congress. They can't stop spending.

I don't think they want to because as long as they are handing money people will vote for them. And that includes conservatives as well as liberals. What do your conservative congressmen say? That they will bring money to your state. What if they said "im going to Congress to make sure we cut our revenue from the Feds" Would they get voted in? It always seems we want money cut, just not ours. Just like the liberals want higher taxes, but when they get hosed on higher taxes they complain.

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I agree with most of what you said here. For the number of times my taxes have increased compared to how often I complain about them, I feel like I'm actually pretty darn good!

But here's the thing: Government spending is IMPORTANT and inevitable. Suggesting the government "needs to spend less" is like a doctor saying "don't forget to breathe".

We need actionable steps: WHAT programs need to be slashed?

rjs330 said:

And spending IS a problem. Neither side can cut back on spending. Government is addicted to our money. It doesn't matter who's in office or whose in control of Congress. They can't stop spending...

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True, and true to form the Trump Administration/GOP increased spending over 4% in 2018 (same WSJ article linked above).

rambot said:

I agree with most of what you said here. For the number of times my taxes have increased compared to how often I complain about them, I feel like I'm actually pretty darn good!

But here's the thing: Government spending is IMPORTANT and inevitable. Suggesting the government "needs to spend less" is like a doctor saying "don't forget to breathe".

We need actionable steps: WHAT programs need to be slashed?

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Here's a few.

46 Stupid Ways The Government Spends Your Tax Money

These are just examples of government waste. And how government wastes our money.

Here's some more. Top 10 Obsolete Government Programs

Personally I think military spending could be cut. There are billions wasted in the military.

The Dept of Education could be eliminated.

Those are just two that come to mind.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) said:

In the face of an economy that's booming right now, I'll take it. The long term looks good. (as long as Trump gets another term anyway)

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Maybe if we borrow a few trillion more the economy will look even better!

ArmenianJohn said:

Treasury will borrow $1 trillion for 2nd straight year to pay for Trump's tax cuts, spending

More fiscal irresponsibility and smoke and mirrors by the GOP/Trump. The conservatives want free stuff - free money, so they get to save a hundred or two hundred in taxes (if that) and in exchange they are happy for the country to plunge $trillions further into debt.

This why nobody believes any Republican who whines about the deficit because they clearly don't care one whit.

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Who are we borrowing from?

Maria Billingsley said:

Who are we borrowing from?

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People and entity's that buy US treasury bonds.

ArmenianJohn said:

This is a silly assertion. It's like saying people are addicted to air, or people are addicted to water. People NEED those things, they are not addictions.

Government is not "addicted" to our money or to spending our money - government NEEDS our money to exist and to do its job. Government is entitled to receive and then spend our money. It is literally government's job to collect our money in the form of taxes and then spend it for our general welfare as a nation (or state or city, etc.).

It's fine if you want to argue that our government is not doing it's job well, not spending wisely, etc. That's fine and that can be argued. But they can't be addicted to our money because as soon as they stop getting our money they cease to exist. And this is Biblical - God's Word says that we are to pay taxes for our government to be in authority over us as ordained by God as His ministers unto us for justice.

To say "government is addicted to our money" is some kind of out there libertarian fantasy phrase, not based in any reality whatsoever.

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It's an addiction if you continually demand more and more and more. It's an addiction if you can't cut spending. And Government is really an arm of us. We are addicted to the money. Just try and take away money from a program. The weeping and wailing and knashing of teeth that would take place would be catastrophic. We would love to cut money from everyone else's programs, but don't touch mine.

Need in and of itself is not addiction. The government needs our money. It doesn't need all the money it gets or demands. So it IS addicted to our money. And when I say it, I am also referring to us. The government is always coming up with new programs that demand more money. More money, more money. The yearly budget just keeps climbing higher and higher. That is an addiction. When you constantly need more and more of something your addicted to it. And I am not talking about reasonable expectations, such as my medical bills went up so I need more money to cover them. Why is it we tax payers can be expected to live on less because the government takes more. But the government can never live on less?

rjs330 said:

Just try and take away money from a program. The weeping and wailing and knashing of teeth that would take place would be catastrophic.

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Yes, when you tell parents living in poverty that they can't have money to feed their kids, or tell unemployed people that you're going to take away any assistance that helps them to survive, then yes there is indeed weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.

But hey, I'm sure you wouldn't have any complaints were the situation reversed..

Kentonio said:

Yes, when you tell parents living in poverty that they can't have money to feed their kids, or tell unemployed people that you're going to take away any assistance that helps them to survive, then yes there is indeed weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.

But hey, I'm sure you wouldn't have any complaints were the situation reversed..

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The same kind of wailing and gnashing of teeth takes place when you tell military contractors that they will no longer get billions to build planes that won't fly (like the F-35).
I understand the necessity of taxes and funding government, my challenge for the most part, is how/where the money is spent.