Aldebaran

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These are same people that applaud the NFL for restricting the speech of football players. Because taking a knee is blasphemy, but neo-Nazis and white supremacists must have their voices heard. I just don't get it... :scratch:

The football field is hardly comparable to the internet. It would be the same as comparing the office where someone works as being the same as a public park.
 
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dzheremi

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I see it as a conservative vs liberal issue because of the rank hypocrisy of conservatives.

Then why is it organizations that are often stereotyped by conservatives as being 'liberal' like the ACLU that are standing up for free speech on the internet? I would imagine that the conservative hypocrisy would still be there regardless (since the example you've given is clearly driven by money, not free speech concerns), so isn't this a bit of a different issue? Saying who should have the right to say what, or what they should have the right to say, on the basis of whether or not their view can be label as 'hateful' or whatever is a different question than companies deciding to do what most benefits themselves economically. Besides, do you not think that YouTube, et al. are doing the same? Doesn't Facebook or YouTube lose all the ad revenue that would've been generated in Pakistan every day they are banned there, forcing them to play ball with Pakistan re: blasphemy laws, essentially for economic reasons?

Seems to me like everyone is a hypocrite, and everyone likes money more than they like freedom of speech, no matter what they say. With that out of the way, can we please talk about the kind of society that we want to have? Because I don't want to live in a society where football players or neo-Nazis are denied the right to free expression, so long as it doesn't cross the line into hurting people. Again, this used to be the standard. No yelling fire in a crowded hall. Now it seems that people are fine with these giant companies (which already have all their personal data) deciding who can even be in the hall to begin with. And you don't see a problem with that because conservatives are hypocrites? That's your reasoning? What about if everyone's a hypocrite...then who or what decides who gets to have a voice on what are essentially the premier public platforms in the entire world? (i.e., Facebook for non-video, or YouTube for video.)

This may be the kind of thing where down the line you'll regret winning the battle, because you'll ultimately lose the war when somewhere down the line what you say is deemed 'extreme'. Since we're on a Christian message board, I think it would be good to remember Christ's warning in John 16:2 that there would come a time when those who will kill you will think they are offering a service unto God. This is not that extreme of course, but it can effectively 'kill' a person, socially/financially/politically/etc. That's a lot of power. We should be wise when considering how it ought to be wielded, and not give it up to an unaccountable group or algorithm that we don't even really know anything about.
 
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rambot

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Will extreme left-leaning videos be removed as well? Antifa, BLM, LGBT pride and other such videos would have to be scrutinized for removal unless Youtube is only going after conservative groups.
If they are extremists who call for violence (oh man....SOOOOOO many LGBT videos like that, no doubt), then I would desperately hope they WOULD get taken down. Is there something in the link that suggests hate and violence filled videos from antifa and BLM would NOT get taken down?
 
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rambot

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The football field is hardly comparable to the internet. It would be the same as comparing the office where someone works as being the same as a public park.
Really? What is the TV viewership and newscoverage of your workday look like?
 
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mala

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While no doubt there are many clear-cut cases where such a policy is advisable and commendable, I wonder if many people trust YouTube and/or their team or algorithm or whatever/whoever is deciding what is "extreme" and what isn't to do the job of removing the videos. I've seen plenty of pro-ISIS/pro-Islamist terrorism Twitter accounts skate by with no repercussions (presumably because they primarily communicate in Arabic or other languages that the monitors don't/can't read or understand), while those of ex-Muslims who are now critical of the very movements that they themselves used to be a part of get deleted or suspended for "inciting racial hatred", "inciting violence", etc. From what I've heard in the ex-Muslim community on YouTube, it is much the same, with many videos being removed for pointing out the supremacist ideologies inherent in this or that hadith or section of the Qur'an (stuff about the Jews and Christians being "the sons of apes and pigs", while the Muslims are the "best of people ever created" or whatever). Surely there is some latitude regarding what is 'extreme' when it comes to religious texts written in the pre-modern era (so long as they aren't Christian in any way...), but if suddenly pointing out that the attitudes that some adopt as a result of their fidelity to their religion and its texts (or rather their understanding of it, I suppose) becomes in itself 'extremism', then I have very little hope that this kind of wide-reaching mandate will be anything but a breeding ground for abuse and enforcement of group-think.

Since YouTube, et al. are so much of the 'digital public square' these days, I personally think they ought to be taken out of the hands of private companies and run like utilities. You can't cut off a guy's phone service because he's a Nazi, but you can prosecute him for racist hate crimes planned over said phone line. That sort of distinction would be great, rather than YouTube's current system wherein if a view is merely unpopular with a particularly loud segment of society, it gets flagged as 'hate' when what it really is is criticism that they do not like to hear, but that others should still be allowed to say, assuming that they don't say it in a way that itself invokes racial/ethnic/religious extremism. (And, yes, all of this should apply to Christians, too. Why wouldn't it? We're not strangers to having our religion criticized from every corner and under every possible guise, and anyone else should be too if they're going to use these platforms. I just fear that there will be some very bad unintended consequences of this very well intended plan, which may enable certain kinds of extremism to grow unchallenged.)
that's ridiculous.
there is nothing stopping another company from forming their own youtube.
in fact there are plenty of 'tube clones out there.
it's a private platform and always has been. the fact that so many people use it is irrelevant.
people on the right seem to want to take it out of the public square since they have these childish paranoid delusions that they are apparently the only ones being removed from these private systems.
it basically comes down to wanting to use government to oppress more people.
 
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tulc

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The football field is hardly comparable to the internet. It would be the same as comparing the office where someone works as being the same as a public park.
uhmmm...actually people are free to start their own social media platforms on the internet. Facebook and the rest of those things aren't the internet. :wave:
tulc(just thought that should be pointed out) :)
 
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SummerMadness

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I forgot to mention, comparing this to a baker is a bad example. If YouTube refused to allow users on their platform based on religion, race, ethnicity, sex, gender, or sexual orientation, then it would be comparable. YouTube is not disallowing certain users from using the platform, it is restricting certain forms of speech on their platform, much like this site censors certain speech (e.g., “do not curse” replacing particular words here).

YouTube and Facebook are no different than this forum.
 
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Ironhold

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Oh, and I'm now hearing reports that at least one channel getting videos removed for "hate speech" is a channel someone was maintaining as a resource for history teachers.

The channel apparently included a fair bit of historical footage, including footage from WWII.

Thanks to this Maza person, it seems that even talking about WWII is now off-limits.
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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mala

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one is a nation.
the other represents a group of people whom are born with differences from the supposed majority.
one has no feelings.
the other is made up of real people really being oppressed by the majority.
it's simply astounding how you are failing to understand or accept as simple a concept as this. you are trapped in a bubble of either your own or your environments creation and have been doing yourself a massive disservice. i feel sorry for you in that regard.
 
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SummerMadness

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Targeting a government versus targeting a group of people, there is a difference. But I do enjoy the hypocrisy of free market people wanting to control the free market. Don't create your own website, just try to control the website you want to use.
 
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Trogdor the Burninator

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Oh, and I'm now hearing reports that at least one channel getting videos removed for "hate speech" is a channel someone was maintaining as a resource for history teachers.

The channel apparently included a fair bit of historical footage, including footage from WWII.

Thanks to this Maza person, it seems that even talking about WWII is now off-limits.

IMO the problem is that youtube lets users flag content as hate speech, and then responds to those users - meaning people can organise to target a particular channel such as a historical one, even if it is not advocating hate speech. There seems to be very little human intervention, or what there is is perhaps unprofessional.

The pace of uploads are going to make any more methodical method very hard to implement, and anything youtube does is going to be very scattergun in implementation, just because of the way social media works.
 
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Shiloh Raven

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that's ridiculous.
there is nothing stopping another company from forming their own youtube.
in fact there are plenty of 'tube clones out there.
it's a private platform and always has been. the fact that so many people use it is irrelevant.
people on the right seem to want to take it out of the public square since they have these childish paranoid delusions that they are apparently the only ones being removed from these private systems.
it basically comes down to wanting to use government to oppress more people.

Godtube is one of these 'tube clones' and the Terms of Use for the site are very restrictive.
 
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Ironhold

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IMO the problem is that youtube lets users flag content as hate speech, and then responds to those users - meaning people can organise to target a particular channel such as a historical one, even if it is not advocating hate speech. There seems to be very little human intervention, or what there is is perhaps unprofessional.

The pace of uploads are going to make any more methodical method very hard to implement, and anything youtube does is going to be very scattergun in implementation, just because of the way social media works.

I'm now also seeing reports that a channel dedicated to cataloging people who express "hate speech" for research purposes (namely, exposing who these people are and what views they hold) has also been hit for "hate speech", even though the goal of the channel was to fight it by exposing it for what it is.
 
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mala

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Godtube is one of these 'tube clones' and the Terms of Use for the site are very restrictive.
obviously the government should step in and take it over for the good of the people to have a public discussion free from the ramifications of god and its tubes.
 
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Orthodoxjay1

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Targeting a government versus targeting a group of people, there is a difference. But I do enjoy the hypocrisy of free market people wanting to control the free market. Don't create your own website, just try to control the website you want to use.
Yes the same people said it free speech for the leftists to spit on our troops, and call them baby killers when they returned home from Nam.
 
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mala

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So it would be OK if YouTube purged also far-leftists, antifascist, sjw, ecoterrorist, left wing anarchist, anti-Christoan videos or is it only videos you personally find offensive you want purged, whatever happened to "I may not like his views, and he wrong, yet I'll fight for his right to free speech" should we be like Communist china and throw the "extremists" onto "red-education camps"?
free speech is one thing. hate speech that incites people to hurtful acts or violence is another. please go yell fire in a theater or yell he's got a gun in a mall.
 
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