Pope Francis Approves Change To Lord’s Prayer

Tigger45 · Jun 4, 2019

Many times I see 'The Lord's prayer' rendered as "Save us from the time of trial," which I prefer.

Shimokita · Jun 4, 2019

timothyu said:
Everything revolves around Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom. As I have stated in this thread, this is just one more step away from the Kingdom and back to the world of man.

Anything you disagree with is a step away from the Kingdom, isn’t it?

Ken Rank · Jun 4, 2019

timothyu said:
Why did the Hebrew people of which Jesus was a part, believe God created/used the Tempter for a purpose? God is all, there is no outside creator, just rebels within. Man accepted what Jesus refused in the desert, Christianity accepted the same position of power and authourity so it is logical it will define and change scripture to suit it's own purposes, not God's.

I am just repeating Scripture, I can cite the sources for you.

James 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone

Yet, despite God not tempting man, Job was clearly allowed by God to test him (Job 1:6-12) and despite being the son of God, Satan was allowed to tempt Jesus.

So the fact that God will use Satan, or Pharaoh, or anyone else to bring glory to Himself is sometimes how He does things.

thecolorsblend · Jun 4, 2019

RichardY said:
I do not like it... Changing the prayer from asking for help. "lead us not into temptation." A plea for innocence.

To a commandment, on The Lord. "do not let us fall into temptation."

Was there a mistranslation of Jesus Christ's words???? Isn't there multiple warnings against this?

The Pope is advocating a more accurate translation of what Our Lord said.

Nothing, least of all a prayer, is being changed.

BNR32FAN · Jun 4, 2019

redleghunter said:
Pope Francis finally approved the changes he has long wanted to implement to the Lord's Prayer by replacing "lead us not into temptation" with "do not let us fall into temptation," reports UCatholic.

"On May 22nd during the General Assembly of the Episcopal Conference of Italy, President Cardinal Gualtiero Bassetti announced the approval of a third edition of the Messale Romano," reports the outlet. The revised translation will include changes to the Lord’s Prayer and Gloria. The Lord’s Prayer will change from 'and lead us not into temptation' to 'do not let us fall into temptation.'"

Pope Francis first spoke of his desire to update the "lead us not into temptation" part of the Lord's Prayer, arguing that it portrays God in a false light. "A father does not lead into temptation, a father helps you to get up immediately," the Pope said at the time.

"It is not a good translation because it speaks of a God who induces temptation," he added.

Remainder of the article here: Pope Francis Approves Change To Lord’s Prayer

Actually The Lord’s Prayer has already been added onto a very long time ago. I’m sorry I don’t know when it happened but scholars say that the statement “For thine is the kingdom and the power, and the glory forever and ever” was an addition and older texts do not include this sentence. I noticed this in the ASV version which omits this statement and at first I was very angry and rejected the ASV when I had previously preferred it because of its accuracy to the original Greek texts. Later I found out why the statement was omitted in the ASV among many others. Personally on the subject of Pope Francis’ change I say let Jesus’ words be His own and it should stay forever unchanged. That’s my opinion.

Ken Rank · Jun 4, 2019

thecolorsblend said:
The Pope is advocating a more accurate translation of what Our Lord said.

Nothing, least of all a prayer, is being changed.

I would maintain that this isn't expected to be a repeat after me prayer anyway. This is more like a formula, a model to follow. I have some evidence for that but need to get back to work. Hopefully, I will remember and can share later.

Be blessed.
Ken

tz620q · Jun 4, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
Actually The Lord’s Prayer has already been added onto a very long time ago. I’m sorry I don’t know when it happened but scholars say that the statement “For thine is the kingdom and the power, and the glory forever and ever” was an addition and older texts do not include this sentence. I noticed this in the ASV version which omits this statement and at first I was very angry and rejected the ASV when I had previously preferred it because of its accuracy to the original Greek texts. Later I found out why the statement was omitted in the ASV among many others. Personally on the subject of Pope Francis’ change I say let Jesus’ words be His own and it should stay forever unchanged. That’s my opinion.

I was asked this question once and looked up the answer. The phrase “For thine is the kingdom and the power, and the glory forever and ever” can be found in Lord's Prayer in the Didache, which is a very early Christian document. So if it was an addition, it happened quite early.

Shiloh Raven · Jun 4, 2019

Ken Rank said:
I don't believe God does the tempting... I think the scripture states that, but it also shows Him allowing it to happen by Satan.

As I commented earlier on, James 1:13-14 states that God does not tempt us.

Shiloh Raven · Jun 4, 2019

timothyu said:
Everything revolves around Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom. As I have stated in this thread, this is just one more step away from the Kingdom and back to the world of man.

And as I have stated at the beginning of this thread...

How is this any different from the multiple of various Bible translations and biblical interpretations that are available? Do you know how many Bible translations in English BibleGateway.com provides?

My questions have yet to be answered by anyone who is here to openly oppose the Pope.

Ken Rank · Jun 4, 2019

Shiloh Raven said:
As I commented earlier on, James 1:13-14 states that God does not tempt us.

Yes, I know... but I wasn't talking to you AND though God doesn't... He very clearly allows Satan to tempt. Could God not have stopped Satan in the wilderness when Yeshua was fasting? Did He not give Satan permission to test Job? God doesn't tempt... but the tempter is allowed to do what he does by God's will or he wouldn't be doing it!

Carl Emerson · Jun 4, 2019

Shiloh Raven said:
Pope Francis is correct because James 1:13-14 clearly states that God does not tempt us.

Matt 4
1 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

Lead us not into temptation...

BNR32FAN · Jun 4, 2019

tz620q said:
I was asked this question once and looked up the answer. The phrase “For thine is the kingdom and the power, and the glory forever and ever” can be found in Lord's Prayer in the Didache, which is a very early Christian document. So if it was an addition, it happened quite early.

Yes I’m sorry I can’t say what texts they found that they considered to be earlier.

PaulCyp1 · Jun 4, 2019

While the old translation is problematic, which I have recognized for many years, the new one doesn't sound quite right either. "Strengthen us in times of temptation" might be better. Well, the Catholic Church wrote the prayer, so they have the right to modify it.

timothyu · Jun 4, 2019

PaulCyp1 said:
Well, the Catholic Church wrote the prayer,

???

Quasiblogo · Jun 4, 2019

As a non-RCC Christian, I see the Our Father as a “Pray like this” matter. If the matter passes translation muster, then I would see the verbiage as an alternative example for how to pray, but that’s it—liturgy not being an issue to me.

crossnote · Jun 4, 2019

crossnote said:
I take it he is changing the wording in his liturgical books but not the Scriptures?

Looks like just The Missal...
https://www.ucatholic.com/news/pope...ges-to-lords-prayer-gloria-of-italian-missal/

StillGods · Jun 4, 2019

Matthew 4:1

Shiloh Raven · Jun 4, 2019

Again, I ask...

How is this any different from the multiple of various Bible translations and biblical interpretations that are available? Do you know how many Bible translations in English BibleGateway.com provides?

RichardY · Jun 4, 2019

@Shiloh Raven Because it's a commandment, and not asking. The form is wrong. "do not let us".

Matthew 6
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

chilehed · Jun 4, 2019

joymercy said:
I refuse to change the our father

So you only say it in Latin?

Pope Francis Approves Change To Lord’s Prayer

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