Rev. 20:4, No Mention of Physical Earthly Reign

ebedmelech

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"he who believes in Me will live --->even if he dies.

It means that I have to die first before I can be resurrected. Jesus is just saying that it's a done deal, you can take it to the bank and that it's as good as gold. He's not superseding or circumventing the rest of scripture including His most recent information found in Revelation 20.
No it doesn't. it means you must be spiritually resurrected first before you die.

John 3 - "You MUST be born AGAIN...

Romans 6:1-11

Ephesians 2:1-10

If you're not resurrected spiritually in Christ FIRST...the only resurrection you have is that of the dead in trespasses and sins'
Paul said that there those who are "asleep" and that we should not grieve as others do who have no hope. Asleep means dead in the grave right? There's untold millions of people from all ages who are asleep. But then he said we who are alive will not precede those who have fallen asleep. And the dead in Christ will rise first. That means ALL the dead in Christ right?
(not the wicked dead because the rest of the dead will not come to life until the thousand years are finished) [completed]
Reconcile that with Jesus saying “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die."...as well as Paul saying "Absent from the body, present with the Lord".

This is how Jesus can say "even if we die, we live". Remember "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God"? Our ultimate redemption is when we receive our immortal bodies...in the meantime our spirit is with the Lord.
Just ALL the dead IN Christ.
Wrong. The focus is on the dead in Christ. In no way is the apostle addressing the lost here. He's addressing those who have died in Christ and what happens to them. Jesus put it this way in John 5:28-29:
28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.


The consistency of this is in what Jesus said in of judgement of the SHEEP and the GOATS...one judgment but two classes...sheep and goats.
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words.
Once again...answering the concern of believers trying to understand what has happened to believers that have died. The body sleeps...the spirit is in Christ's presence.
The main takeaway here is that we all go as a group, it's not an individual resurrection for each and every saint.
Who says it is? It's one resurrection. Jesus said "a time is coming in which ALL who are in the grave will hear HIS VOICE..." ALL MEANS ALL.

If you refer to the numberless multitude from revelation 7 then you are correct. They are seen by John in vision in Heaven after our end time tribulation right at the start of the thousand years from Revelation 20:

“These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

“Therefore they are before the throne of God,
and serve him day and night in his temple;
and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence.
They shall hunger no more, neither thirst anymore;
the sun shall not strike them,
nor any scorching heat.
For the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd,
and he will guide them to springs of living water,
and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”​
Please point to where anything says this is an end time tribulation...because it doesn't. You surmise that.

It sounds simple to me. The rest of the dead will not live until the thousand years are finished or completed. When we "have completed" our thousand year reign with Jesus it will be finished.

fin·ish/ˈfiniSH/verb
1.bring (a task or activity) to an end; complete.
2.complete the manufacture or decoration of (a material, object, or place) by giving it an attractive surface appearance.
If a 1000 years are a thousand years...why does John say WHEN the thousand years are completed?
Cattle and hills can be symbolic, time cannot. In the books of Daniel and Revelation there are 18 prophetic time periods but none of them are symbolic. I submit that it would undermine the very purpose of apocalyptic prophecy to attempt to change the definitions of their time periods. How would the beast feel if he was given 42 months of symbolic authority that was realized as 32 literal months. See what I mean? Prophecy would then become like a nose of wax that could be squished, bent and molded around to suit anyones taste.

Same answer as above.
Context is the determining factor though. Daniel's prophecy explains that is a literal period. However the Psalms are poetry, and in poetry one has to listen to the poet to understand.
I know some have read this to be 6 millennial days of 1000 years each with the thousand years of Revelation 20 being the 7 thousandth year. It seems self evident as the Bible genealogies speak of about 6000 years since the fall. Which may mean that it's just about that time for us to get ready for a really big shew.

But in no way does 2 Peter 3:8 or Psalm 90:4 violate the literal 1000 year prophetic time period from Revelation 20. It's actually the Revelation that reinforces the literalness of the two previous Scriptural mentions of a thousand years.
Really? Let's deal with what Peter is saying. Because his point (when read properly) is God's salvation plan...which is ongoing even now. "WITH THE LORD..a 1000 years is like one day...". It is not literal because the comparison is time from God's viewpoint...He is outside of time!!!
 
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ebedmelech

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I'm not forcing Isaiah into a literal statement, the bible is.

Whew! At least you don't believe the Lord has returned already. See ya in the 1000 year reign with Christ on earth. He'll be reigning as King and High Priest. Zechariah 14:9 Zechariah 14:16.
Let me qualify that...
One has to understand Daniel 12:1-2 to get this correct:
“Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.
2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.


This was Christ coming in judgement of Jerusalem/Israel! Notice this is DANIEL'S PEOPLE and it is judgement of A NATION. Some don't want to acknowledge that Christ came in judgement, which is not a physical coming of Jesus. He pronounced it on Jerusalem before He gave the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 23, which ascribes the WOES and Jesus says at Matthew 23:37-39:
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
38
Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!
39
For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!
’”

Zechariah 14 cannot stand alone. What do you do with Jesus saying in Matthew 28:18:

18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

How about Hebrews 1 where Jesus is sitting at the RIGHT HAND OF GOD? Do you realize what that means? Stephen saw it as He died in Acts 7:56:

56 and he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

Then you have 1 Corinthians 15:25:

25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.

Jesus reigns right now! This is the point of 2 Peter 3:8-9

8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.


The reason Jesus has not come already is HIS PATIENCE for all to come to repentance who will! This is why Jesus said in John 6:37-
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
38
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39
This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
40
For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.
 
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Fusion77

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Let me qualify that...
One has to understand Daniel 12:1-2 to get this correct:
“Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.
2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.


This was Christ coming in judgement of Jerusalem/Israel! Notice this is DANIEL'S PEOPLE and it is judgement of A NATION. Some don't want to acknowledge that Christ came in judgement, which is not a physical coming of Jesus. He pronounced it on Jerusalem before He gave the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 23, which ascribes the WOES and Jesus says at Matthew 23:37-39:
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
38
Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!
39
For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!
’”

Zechariah 14 cannot stand alone. What do you do with Jesus saying in Matthew 28:18:

18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

How about Hebrews 1 where Jesus is sitting at the RIGHT HAND OF GOD? Do you realize what that means? Stephen saw it as He died in Acts 7:56:

56 and he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

Then you have 1 Corinthians 15:25:

25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.

Jesus reigns right now! This is the point of 2 Peter 3:8-9

8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.


The reason Jesus has not come already is HIS PATIENCE for all to come to repentance who will! This is why Jesus said in John 6:37-
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
38
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39
This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
40
For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.
One has to understand that the book of Daniel is sealed up until the end times Daniel 12:9 it was not
Let me qualify that...
One has to understand Daniel 12:1-2 to get this correct:
“Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.
2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.


This was Christ coming in judgement of Jerusalem/Israel! Notice this is DANIEL'S PEOPLE and it is judgement of A NATION. Some don't want to acknowledge that Christ came in judgement, which is not a physical coming of Jesus. He pronounced it on Jerusalem before He gave the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 23, which ascribes the WOES and Jesus says at Matthew 23:37-39:
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
38
Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!
39
For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!
’”

Zechariah 14 cannot stand alone. What do you do with Jesus saying in Matthew 28:18:

18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

How about Hebrews 1 where Jesus is sitting at the RIGHT HAND OF GOD? Do you realize what that means? Stephen saw it as He died in Acts 7:56:

56 and he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

Then you have 1 Corinthians 15:25:

25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.

Jesus reigns right now! This is the point of 2 Peter 3:8-9

8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.


The reason Jesus has not come already is HIS PATIENCE for all to come to repentance who will! This is why Jesus said in John 6:37-
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
38
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39
This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
40
For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.
look at Daniel 12:1 At that time. What time? Daniel 11:21-45 tells us what time. Because Daniel 12:1 tells us it's referring to the time just described. This describes the coming up and ultimately the end (destruction) of the AC. Don't try and use Daniel to apply things to the past like, that the AOD was fulfilled in those past times. Daniel 12:9 is REAL clear that the book of Daniel is to be sealed up until the End Times. What times? End times, where we're at now. Any description of past events, are for our benefit now. So, yes it describes past events, but those past events are for our benefit today. The prophecies are sealed up for these end times.

2 Corinthians 4:4 states the god of this world (satan) is blinding eyes. He's still in around deceiving, and is even referred to as the god of this world. We are given the seal of the Holy Spirit when we believe Ephesians 1:13-14 but He is the pledge of our inheritance which is yet to come 2 Corinthians 1:22 but we don't yet take full inheritance.

Satan still has his grip on the world and the Lord has not yet taken complete control. Revelation 12:10-12 shows a picture of what will happen when satan is permanently removed from heaven. Notice power and kingdom then become Christs. The devil will be cast down at that point knowing he has but a short time, and will bring wrath upon the earth. Revelation 12:12 after his wrath which lasts 3.5 years. Shortly sfter he will be cast into the lake of fire and then the kingdoms of the world are the Kingdoms of His Christ. Revelation 11:15.

We'll obviously have to agree to disagree.
 
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Dave Watchman

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No it doesn't. it means you must be spiritually resurrected first before you die.

John 3 - "You MUST be born AGAIN...

I think the Amils just over spiritualize certain Scriptures. And I know Christians go around saying "I'm born again","I'm born again" but it's really talking about a literal seconded birth into a new life form where we are born into the family of God. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with Christians announcing themselves as being "born again" it's just that in the days of the trumpet call to be sounded by the 7th angel it becomes the real thing and not just an ideological concept.

Reconcile that with Jesus saying “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die."...as well as Paul saying "Absent from the body, present with the Lord".

This is how Jesus can say "even if we die, we live". Remember "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God"? Our ultimate redemption is when we receive our immortal bodies...in the meantime our spirit is with the Lord.

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Soul = נָ֫פֶשׁ (nephesh), the same word used to describe animals and living creatures.

We ARE a living soul, we don't have a soul.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Who says it is? It's one resurrection. Jesus said "a time is coming in which ALL who are in the grave will hear HIS VOICE..." ALL MEANS ALL.

ALL <- 1000 YEARS -> ALL

Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to

ALL#1:the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to
ALL#2:the resurrection of judgment.


I can't figure out why the Amils hate Revelation 20 so much. There's nothing wrong with Daniel 12 or the Gospels. But if you are seriously trying to build an end time chronology, Revelation cannot be ignored. It's our latest update, it's hot off the press.

"For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
Only ALL those who looks on the Son and believes in Him will be raised up on this last day resurrection. The rest of the dead will not come to life until the thousand years are finished.

At the "resurrection of life" all the saints who ever lived will be alive at the same time. This is the first time in recorded history that Paul's judgment will even be possible. This will keep us busy for a long time, probably for the better part of a thousand years.

"Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts? Do you not know that we will judge angels?


“These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Please point to where anything says this is an end time tribulation...because it doesn't. You surmise that.

"Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Woops, I almost forgot. This is from chapter 20. Amils don't read that one.

If a 1000 years are a thousand years...why does John say WHEN the thousand years are completed?

I didn't understand this question the first time around. WHEN means when the thousand years are finished but not before. It means not after 500 or 800 or even 999 years. Only after a full one thousand years will Satan be released from his prison. That's WHEN.

New International Version
When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison

New Living Translation
When the thousand years come to an end, Satan will be let out of his prison.

English Standard Version
And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison

Berean Study Bible
When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison,

Berean Literal Bible
And when the thousand years shall have been completed, Satan will be released out of his prison,

New American Standard Bible
When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,

King James Bible
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Holman Christian Standard Bible
When the 1,000 years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison

International Standard Version
When the thousand years are over, Satan will be freed from his prison.

NET Bible
Now when the thousand years are finished, Satan will be released from his prison

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And whenever the 1000 years are finished, Satan will be released from his imprisonment,

GOD'S WORD® Translation
When 1,000 years are over, Satan will be freed from his prison.

New American Standard 1977
And when the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,

Jubilee Bible 2000
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison

King James 2000 Bible
And when the thousand years are ended, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

American King James Version
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

American Standard Version
And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Douay-Rheims Bible
And when the thousand years shall be finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go forth, and seduce the nations, which are over the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, and shall gather them together to battle, the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Darby Bible Translation
And when the thousand years have been completed, Satan shall be loosed from his prison,

English Revised Version
And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Webster's Bible Translation
And when the thousand years have expired, Satan shall be loosed from his prison,

Weymouth New Testament
But when the thousand years are at an end, the Adversary will be released from his imprisonment,

World English Bible
And after the thousand years, Satan will be released from his prison,

Young's Literal Translation
And when the thousand years may be finished, the Adversary shall be loosed out of his prison,
 
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ebedmelech

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One has to understand that the book of Daniel is sealed up until the end times Daniel 12:9 it was not
It was if you understand Jesus is opening those seals in Revelation.
look at Daniel 12:1 At that time. What time? Daniel 11:21-45 tells us what time. Because Daniel 12:1 tells us it's referring to the time just described. This describes the coming up and ultimately the end (destruction) of the AC. Don't try and use Daniel to apply things to the past like, that the AOD was fulfilled in those past times. Daniel 12:9 is REAL clear that the book of Daniel is to be sealed up until the End Times. What times? End times, where we're at now. Any description of past events, are for our benefit now. So, yes it describes past events, but those past events are for our benefit today. The prophecies are sealed up for these end times.
Just historical error. Daniel 12 is referring to AD 70. Daniel 11 happened at the hands of Antiochus IV Epiphanes before Jesus was even born into the world.
2 Corinthians 4:4 states the god of this world (satan) is blinding eyes. He's still in around deceiving, and is even referred to as the god of this world. We are given the seal of the Holy Spirit when we believe Ephesians 1:13-14 but He is the pledge of our inheritance which is yet to come 2 Corinthians 1:22 but we don't yet take full inheritance.

Satan still has his grip on the world and the Lord has not yet taken complete control. Revelation 12:10-12 shows a picture of what will happen when satan is permanently removed from heaven. Notice power and kingdom then become Christs. The devil will be cast down at that point knowing he has but a short time, and will bring wrath upon the earth. Revelation 12:12 after his wrath which lasts 3.5 years. Shortly sfter he will be cast into the lake of fire and then the kingdoms of the world are the Kingdoms of His Christ. Revelation 11:15.

We'll obviously have to agree to disagree.
Indeed we will...because I'm correlating scripture...and you aren't. Case in point would be this:
Jesus said in John 12:31-32:
31 Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”


Now...you compare that to Revelation 12:7
7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war,
8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him

Where did you expect Satan to go after Jesus judged him at the cross? NO PLACE WAS FOUND FOR HIM after Jesus offered Himself for the sins of HIS PEOPLE.

Indeed...we certainly disagree.


 
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ebedmelech

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I think the Amils just over spiritualize certain Scriptures. And I know Christians go around saying "I'm born again","I'm born again" but it's really talking about a literal seconded birth into a new life form where we are born into the family of God. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with Christians announcing themselves as being "born again" it's just that in the days of the trumpet call to be sounded by the 7th angel it becomes the real thing and not just an ideological concept.



"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Soul = נָ֫פֶשׁ (nephesh), the same word used to describe animals and living creatures.

We ARE a living soul, we don't have a soul.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die.



ALL <- 1000 YEARS -> ALL

Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to

ALL#1:the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to
ALL#2:the resurrection of judgment.


I can't figure out why the Amils hate Revelation 20 so much. There's nothing wrong with Daniel 12 or the Gospels. But if you are seriously trying to build an end time chronology, Revelation cannot be ignored. It's our latest update, it's hot off the press.

"For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
Only ALL those who looks on the Son and believes in Him will be raised up on this last day resurrection. The rest of the dead will not come to life until the thousand years are finished.

At the "resurrection of life" all the saints who ever lived will be alive at the same time. This is the first time in recorded history that Paul's judgment will even be possible. This will keep us busy for a long time, probably for the better part of a thousand years.

"Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts? Do you not know that we will judge angels?





"Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Woops, I almost forgot. This is from chapter 20. Amils don't read that one.



I didn't understand this question the first time around. WHEN means when the thousand years are finished but not before. It means not after 500 or 800 or even 999 years. Only after a full one thousand years will Satan be released from his prison. That's WHEN.

New International Version
When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison

New Living Translation
When the thousand years come to an end, Satan will be let out of his prison.

English Standard Version
And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison

Berean Study Bible
When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison,

Berean Literal Bible
And when the thousand years shall have been completed, Satan will be released out of his prison,

New American Standard Bible
When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,

King James Bible
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Holman Christian Standard Bible
When the 1,000 years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison

International Standard Version
When the thousand years are over, Satan will be freed from his prison.

NET Bible
Now when the thousand years are finished, Satan will be released from his prison

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And whenever the 1000 years are finished, Satan will be released from his imprisonment,

GOD'S WORD® Translation
When 1,000 years are over, Satan will be freed from his prison.

New American Standard 1977
And when the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,

Jubilee Bible 2000
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison

King James 2000 Bible
And when the thousand years are ended, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

American King James Version
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

American Standard Version
And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Douay-Rheims Bible
And when the thousand years shall be finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go forth, and seduce the nations, which are over the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, and shall gather them together to battle, the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Darby Bible Translation
And when the thousand years have been completed, Satan shall be loosed from his prison,

English Revised Version
And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Webster's Bible Translation
And when the thousand years have expired, Satan shall be loosed from his prison,

Weymouth New Testament
But when the thousand years are at an end, the Adversary will be released from his imprisonment,

World English Bible
And after the thousand years, Satan will be released from his prison,

Young's Literal Translation
And when the thousand years may be finished, the Adversary shall be loosed out of his prison,
I didn't expect you to get it Dave. No offense, but I really didn't.

The beauty of this is we'll certainly see if "Amils spiritualize"...or if you literalize. That time is coming.

Jesus said...that which is born of the flesh is flesh, that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. So indeed you go counter to what Jesus says.
 
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stephen583

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Once again, this thread has descended into a theological battlefield between Christians who believe they are "grafted" into the Abrahamic Covenant, but remain Christian's Spiritually.. and those who want to be called "Spiritually" Jews, (as though they have now become God's chosen people, and the original semitic descendants of Abraham are now all disinherited).

Frankly, I think a great deal of time and effort is being wasted in these threads arguing about a "difference without any distinction". If you want to call yourself a "Reformed Jew" or a grafted into the Abrahamic Covenant "Christian".. I don't see where it matters one iota.

As for the millennial (thousand year) reign of Christ on Earth. My sense is, I don't buy it either.
 
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Dave Watchman

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As for the millennial (thousand year) reign of Christ on Earth. My sense is, I don't buy it either.

I believe that the thousand years are literal time but that it will be impossible for anyone to live here during that time.

Why would God want us to know about the thousand years of Revelation 20? Probably not so that we could argue in these threads about it.

Maybe because He knew that we would add up all of those genealogies and find out that the Bible only speaks about 6000 years of history from Adam until the start of the millennium.

So it will take seven millennial "days" to eradicate sin from the universe.

And time must be just about used up on the 6th day.
 
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ebedmelech

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Matthew 28:18:
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

Clear declaration by Jesus that He began to reign after His resurrection!

1 Corinthians 15:25 say of Christ:
25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.

and again...Ephesians 1: 18
18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
19 and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe.
These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might
20 which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.


Jesus reigns NOW!

Hebrews 1 is a clear declaration Christ received the reign after His resurrection!


...and again...Revelation 1:8
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Carry on...
 
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stephen583

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Here's an interesting theory I don't believe anyone has put forth yet concerning the "thousand year" millennial reign. Now, I have no interest in being stoned today for committing "heresy or contradicting Scripture", so everyone relax and keep in mind this is nothing more than a hypothetical, that even I have not measured against everything else written in Bible Prophecy. But it might be interesting.

"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this ONE thing, that ONE DAY is with the Lord as a THOUSAND YEARS, and a thousand years as ONE DAY" (2 Peter 3:8).

Apparently, this one teaching is so crucial to understanding God's Word, The Apostle Peter mentions it in this verse as being singularly important among all his other teachings. "Be not ignorant of this one thing". God does not reckon time the way we do. A thousand years passes here on Earth, and to Him it's like one day has passed. Try to wrap your head around that ?! That means the way God perceives time, Jesus was crucified and resurrected a little over two days ago.

When Jesus and his Apostles said, the "Time Was At Hand" and the "Last Days Had Begun".. they were essentially correct. They were however, speaking in the "spiritual" sense of time and the way God perceives it, not mankind. So now the Historists and Futurists can "kiss and make up". Turns out they're both right, it's just a matter of which perception of time you happen to be talking about. It never was a case of one being right and the other being wrong.

Where it becomes interesting, is why the Apostle Peter curiously reverses the wording in the last seven words of the verse ? Was he just feeling poetic at the moment ?! Or instead, was there a deliberate purpose behind the nature of these prose we have yet to consider ?! In Bible numerology the number seven is associated with nearly every work of God. It appears a total of 287 times in the Scripture.

The number seven is also sacred to the Hebrews, it represents "a perfect world which is crowned by heaven". So seven denotes completeness through the "union of earth with heaven". That sounds very much like what the "thousand year millennial reign" describes, doesn't it ?!

Now lets take the next step in logic and ask the question you know is coming. Was the last seven words of 2 Peter 3:8 a direct reference to the millennial reign and the manner in which it will be fulfilled ?! Was the Apostle Peter saying the millennial reign will only consist of one day, according to the way we reckon time ?! How's that for an absolutely mind blowing hypothesis ?!

 
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parousia70

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Here's an interesting theory I don't believe anyone has put forth yet concerning the "thousand year" millennial reign. Now, I have no interest in being stoned today for committing "heresy or contradicting Scripture", so everyone relax and keep in mind this is nothing more than a hypothetical, that even I have not measured against everything else written in Bible Prophecy. But it might be interesting.

"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this ONE thing, that ONE DAY is with the Lord as a THOUSAND YEARS, and a thousand years as ONE DAY" (2 Peter 3:8).

Apparently, this one teaching is so crucial to understanding God's Word, The Apostle Peter mentions it in this verse as being singularly important among all his other teachings. "Be not ignorant of this one thing". God does not reckon time the way we do. A thousand years passes here on Earth, and to Him it's like one day has passed. Try to wrap your head around that ?!
that ONE DAY is with the Lord as a THOUSAND YEARS, and a thousand years as ONE DAY"

What's even harder to wrap your brain around is that not only is 1000 earth years as one day to God, one earth Day is as 1000 years to God.

So according to How God perceives time, the passing of one earth day can satisfy the passing of 1000 years to Him.
 
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parousia70

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I think the Amils just over spiritualize certain Scriptures.

Amils hardly have a corner of the over spiritualization market.

There are over 100 NT scriptures that pre mils over spiritualize to suit their paradigm.

Soon, at hand, shortly, about to take place, without delay, this generation shall not pass, I will come TO YOU, ect ect ect...

The immanency that saturates the NT is completely, overtly spiritualized away to render it meaningless.
 
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ebedmelech

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Let's think about how God uses the term 1000.

God says He's faithful to the 1000th generation...OR He own the cattle on a 1000 hills. In each case 1000 is used by God to indicate He's faithful to ALL generations and He owns ALL the hills.

Now the 2 Peter 3:8-9 passage is often misunderstood....look at it:
8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.


The very point here is God's patience when it comes to all who are to be saved! That's the real point. When God's salvation plan is complete Jesus will come as the judge of ALL. Even here the 1000 years is figurative of a very long period of time because God is outside of time. 1000 = X...and X is unknown!
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Revelation 20:4 says,

"...and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,...and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."


This passage says nothing about Jesus coming to this earth and establishing a worldly Kingdom at Jerusalem. Those that teach this are duty-bound to prove their doctrine with scripture.

Did you know that the phrase "thousand year reign of Christ" does not appear anywhere in scripture? Neither does the term "millenium." Yet, the doctrine is prevalent among so many denominations.

Where does this passage mention Christ's second coming?


Where does it mention a reign on earth?

Where does it mention Christ on earth?

Those who believe in a future earthly reign of Christ on earth for a thousand years make the same mistake that the Jews who crucified Christ made -- they were not satisfied with a spiritual Kingdom; they had to have a literal, worldly, physical Kingdom.

The truth of the matter is not that Christ will reign for a thousand years some time in the future, but that Christ is reigning now, and will continue to reign for eternity. We do not have to wait for His Kingdom to come sometime in the future before He starts reigning over our lives, for Christ's Kingdom is here now, and He desires that we reign with Him now, whether we choose to recognize it or not.
Great thread.
The truth of the matter is not that Christ will reign for a thousand years some time in the future, but that Christ is reigning now, and will continue to reign for eternity. We do not have to wait for His Kingdom to come sometime in the future before He starts reigning over our lives, for Christ's Kingdom is here now, and He desires that we reign with Him now, whether we choose to recognize it or not
Jesus seemed to imply that the Kingdom of God was going to appear after the 70ad destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple.


Matthew 21:43
Therefore I am saying to ye, that the Kingdom of God shall be being taken-away from Ye , and it shall be being given to a Nation doing the Fruits of it.

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Luke 19:11 Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately.
Luke 21:31“So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
Matthew 21:43 Therefore I am saying to ye, that the Kingdom of God shall be being taken-away from Ye, and it shall be being given to a Nation doing the Fruits of it.

Kindgdom Bible Studies Kingdom of God Part 1
KINGDOM OF GOD — KINGDOM OF HEAVEN

There are many strange ideas around about the difference between the terms “Kingdom of God” and “Kingdom of Heaven”. It has been taught that the Kingdom of God is spiritual and heavenly, whereas the Kingdom of Heaven is temporal and earthly, and that the two cannot be mixed. Actually, if there were any truth in that, it still sounds backwards!
Some say that the Kingdom of God is an eternal kingdom of God over all and that the Kingdom of Heaven is an earthly and temporal program, some future divine dynasty to be established on earth, and that it is of special significance only to the Jews, who, still awaiting their Messiah, will see His righteous government in control of the world, and in their hands, during the Millennium.
Others assume that the Kingdom of Heaven means a kingdom in heaven, so they are waiting to die so they can go to their kingdom in heaven where they intend to spend eternity strumming harps and dancing up and down the streets of gold.

Ignorant men have long tried to make a distinction between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven, as though they were two separate kingdoms. They often explain that the Kingdom of Heaven embraces the “Church age” and the Kingdom of God will be set up during the “Millennium”.
The simple truth is that the two terms are used interchangeably in numerous places in scripture. To cite only a few of several examples, when Matthew recorded the Sermon on the Mount he quoted Jesus as saying, “Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” But when Luke recorded the same saying of Jesus he said, “Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.” Again, Matthew quoted the Lord, “And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. For all the law and the prophets prophesied until John” (Mat. 11:12-13). Luke says, “The law and the prophets were until John: from that time the gospel of the kingdom of God is preached, and every man entereth violently into it” (Lk. 16:16). In these two passages the messenger spoken of in both cases is John.
His message was said to begin where the law and the prophets left off. His message was announcing a kingdom. In one passage that kingdom is called the Kingdom of God, while in the other it is called the Kingdom of Heaven. The time was the same, the man was the same, the message was the same, and the kingdom was the same in both cases.

Our Lord’s instructions upon sending out the twelve were, according to Matthew, “And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Mat. 10:7). According to Luke, “He sent them forth to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick” (Lk. 9:2). Certainly Jesus did not preach two conflicting messages at the same time! Certainly He was not announcing two separate and distinct kingdoms and declaring them both to be at hand! These, and many other passages, show the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven are one and the same. Yet — there is a difference! God does not have TWO KINGDOMS — He has only ONE.

There is not one Kingdom of God and another Kingdom of Heaven. There is only one Kingdom. However each of these two terms is not without its special significance. For, you see, heaven is a REALM and God is a PERSON. The Kingdom has its origin in the REALM OF HEAVEN, and in the PERSON OF GOD. The term “Kingdom of Heaven” denotes, on the one hand, from whence (from what place, location, realm or dimension) the Kingdom proceeds, while the term “Kingdom of God” reveals, on the other hand, from whom (from what person or being) the Kingdom originates.
When we consider these two items, place and person, it immediately follows that as to REALM the Kingdom is out of the heavenlies, but as to PERSON the Kingdom comes from God. It is called the Kingdom OF God because it is from and by God. He is the Instigator and Head of the Kingdom. It is called the Kingdom OF Heaven because it has its inception in heaven — the invisible realm of Spirit.


 
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ewq1938

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Let's think about how God uses the term 1000.

God says He's faithful to the 1000th generation...OR He own the cattle on a 1000 hills. In each case 1000 is used by God to indicate He's faithful to ALL generations and He owns ALL the hills.



That's a different language and it's never used this way with years. When God tells us a number of years or months etc, it's literal numbers.


Now the 2 Peter 3:8-9 passage is often misunderstood....look at it:
8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.




The very point here is God's patience when it comes to all who are to be saved! That's the real point. When God's salvation plan is complete Jesus will come as the judge of ALL. Even here the 1000 years is figurative of a very long period of time because God is outside of time. 1000 = X...and X is unknown!

The point is that a long period of time doesn't seem as long to God as it does to us. To us the fulfillment of various promises seems like it's never going to happen but to God a long time is nothing. That doesn't make the thousand years not exactly a thousand years and a day not a day. This proves a thousand years is exactly that, a thousand years just as a day is exactly a day. So, the thousand years that Christ and his immortal saints rule over the nations of a rod of iron is exactly what he says, a period of a thousand years.
 
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ewq1938

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Jesus reigns NOW!


Yes but the rod of iron reign over the nations has not yet started:

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

That is the second coming.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the nations.

Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

After the second coming and after "the end" will the overcomers be given power over the nations, ruling them with a rod of iron. That proves the rod of iron rule over the nations for a thousand years does not even start until Christ has returned and has given overcomers this power to rule over the nations.
 
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ebedmelech

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That's a different language and it's never used this way with years. When God tells us a number of years or months etc, it's literal numbers.

What does God mean when He says He own the cattle on a THOUSAND hills?

What does God mean when he says he is faithful to the THOUSANDTH generation?

The point is that a long period of time doesn't seem as long to God as it does to us. To us the fulfillment of various promises seems like it's never going to happen but to God a long time is nothing. That doesn't make the thousand years not exactly a thousand years and a day not a day. This proves a thousand years is exactly that, a thousand years just as a day is exactly a day. So, the thousand years that Christ and his immortal saints rule over the nations of a rod of iron is exactly what he says, a period of a thousand years.

So let's allow God to make the point in His word as above...in each case "thousand" means ALL. That is the point being made.

To reign with Christ for a thousand years means FOREVER!!!
 
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ebedmelech

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Yes but the rod of iron reign over the nations has not yet started:

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

That is the second coming.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the nations.

Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

After the second coming and after "the end" will the overcomers be given power over the nations, ruling them with a rod of iron. That proves the rod of iron rule over the nations for a thousand years does not even start until Christ has returned and has given overcomers this power to rule over the nations.

Christ ruling the nations began when He made this statement at Matthew 28:18-20:
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”


Look at Ephesians 1:18-23
18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
19 and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might
20 which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.
22 And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church,
23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

It can't get any clearer than that. Nothing is happening since Christ received all authority from the Father without it being His will.

Just because we don't see all things in this world in subjection to Christ doesn't mean He doesn't have control of all things. It simply means this world is running its course according to the will of Christ until He returns in judgment!

Christ rules with a "rod of iron" right now...though it may not be what you expect it to be, it is how Christ wills it to be.

I encourage you to read Hebrews 2.
 
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ewq1938

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To reign with Christ for a thousand years means FOREVER!!!

No, it doesn't. Scripture clearly says the thousand years ends.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
 
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Christ rules with a "rod of iron" right now...

Not according to Christ who says in Rev 2 the rod of iron rule only starts after he has returned and he hasn't returned yet so that specific period of rule has not yet started.
 
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