Blessed are the meek (treasure in heaven)

curty said:

What say you - are motivations more important than deeds?

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Yes, motivations matter, and anything that doesn't come from faith is missing the mark. (Romans 14)

In this case you are causing harm (Romans 13) to yourself.

I think you are misunderstanding the word "meek" as it is used in the Bible. Jesus was described as meek, but he wasn't a doormat. Meekness is power under control, not lack of power. In the Biblical sense, it's using your power with wisdom and discernment. Very different from how the word is used in our culture.

We are called to be wise and speak the truth in love. If you are allowing people to walk all over you because you are frightened, then you won't have a witness. You will be seen as weak and without credibility.

By fearing criticism and enabling people to use you, you put yourself in a place to be continually used. If you are a pushover, people will push you over. That's not to say that you should insist on your way, not at all. However, in wisdom, you need to gather the courage to speak boldly, kindly, and with grace when it's called for.

I think you are already answering your own question, by understanding how at times you are helping people do what is not good for them.

But I have enjoyed letting people have what they want with me so I can share with them and personally love them. I mean things like someone wants to take a walk, so I walk with the person even if I might not really care about the walking. I care about the person, and I don't want my own preferences and ways which don't really matter to isolate me from other people.

But there are times when someone will ask me what I want, and I might tell the person and let the person do it for me or give it to me or do it with me. This can be letting someone be with me so we can share in a good way, and learn how to love.

curty said:

Do you think I am gaining treasure in heaven by not asking or pushing for what I want? Will I be rewarded for giving others what they want when at times it is probably not in their best interest in the long term to have it? I know sometimes I'm enabling those around me to persist with selfish or unhealthy lifestyles. What say you - are motivations more important than deeds?

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Hi Curty, we are called (as @turkle just said) to be wise, and to speak the truth in love to others .. Ephesians 4:15. However, if you always choose to say nothing, or to tell your friends what you think they 'want' to hear (rather than what they 'need' to hear), you are disobeying the entirety of that command (IOW, you are neither speaking the truth of God to them, nor are you being loving towards those who need to hear the truth).

Remember too that "loving" others cannot be done by denying or avoiding the truth. As St. Paul said elsewhere,


Psalm 85:10b tells us that righteousness and peace have "kissed" one another. The very same can be said for truth and love. So, always remaining silent, or saying things (especially as a Christian) that cause someone who is outside of Christ to feel good about their sin/sinful lifestyle, is actually the opposite of loving them, isn't it?

As for "enabling" these friends of yours to persist in their sinful lifestyles, I don't think you are doing that, but you are encouraging them (especially if they know that you are a Christian). You have to be wise in how and when you approach them, of course, but if you persist in your silence and never tell them the truth, they will take your ongoing silence as a tacit approval of their behavior.

Praying for them, for their salvation, is the best place to begin, I think, and then pray that the Lord would give you the opportunity to speak to them about Him as well. And if they won't receive the truth when you try, then go back to praying for them again (and for future opportunities to speak to them, for yourself and for others). Sometimes we never know what our prayers and our words mean to others, but God makes us a wonderful promise about not losing heart/persisting in doing good for others, yes .. Galatians 6:9

Look, I know we live in tough times to be a Christian/speak as a Christian, and I know it's no fun to make people, especially your friends, feel bad, but if we don't love them by speaking the truth to them, who will? Personally, I FAR prefer people pleasing silence to speaking up, so much so that I used to justify my silence by that famous quote that is credited to St. Francis (that he actually neither wrote nor lived), "Preach the word always, if necessary, use words". Now I try to remember the words of Ligon Duncan instead (see his quote in my signature line below).

Ask the Lord for His help with loving others properly, and then choose to be brave, especially while we have the kind of opportunity to speak the truth of God openly that we do today (because the time may be just around the corner when sharing the truth of the Gospel with others could end up getting us thrown into prison or worse).

Praying for you.

God bless you!

--David
p.s. - I'll add my favorite Spurgeon quote as well, as a means of encouragement, not admonishment

curty said:

Thanks for your replies. I could use more clarification around the grey areas. Say I want to sleep with my wife but I sense she's not interested - she seems tired or just not in the mood. Is it laudable that I choose not to approach her?
Going without night after night makes me more stressed, feeling unloved and eventually resentful. Will God reward that?

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St. Paul speaks to that very scenario in 1 Corinthians 7:3-5.

That said, I think it's important to 'talk' to your wife about what your needs are, rather than just "sensing" that she's not interested in fulfilling them. Maybe she'll say she is too tired when you do (as you are sensing that she will), but hopefully she'll plan her life in such a way that she is not too tired tomorrow night, yes

Just like we have to do with the lost, we have to use "words" with our wives too, or they may never know what we want or need. Do you think it might be possible that she is interpreting your silence as 'you' not being interested in her?

--David

It sill sounds like you need to talk to her about what's going on with you, how/what you feel, and/or you need to talk to your pastor about it, hopefully with your wife (though if you want to run things by him first to see if there's anything else you could be doing on your end to make things better/perhaps make her feel more appreciated, then don't hesitate give him a call or go in to see him).

There's a Christian book one of my friends followed called, The Naked Marriage, I think, that did wonders to fire up his marriage. He loved it, but his wife loved it even more than he did

If you'd like, I'll check with him to make sure of the title and the author. Just let me know.

--David

I think you need to open up to your wife about your sexual frustration. It's not right for her to deny you of sex, she needs to tell you why she's never excited or never wants it with you, perhaps hygiene issues? whatever it is, she needs to open up to you about it.

Being a doormat isn't meekness especially when you're doing it because you're insecure. Meekness should be a deliberate act, it's a gift from the Holy Spirit. God bless

curty said:

I'm a naturally easy going person who generally avoids conflict at any cost. I concede and go without what I want nine times out of ten - closer to ten out of ten if I'm honest.
My reasons for doing so are mostly out of insecurity. I'm sensitive to criticism and when people challenge or disagree with me I feel it acutely. On the other hand it makes me feel good to do what others want especially when I don't want to and there is a cost to me.
Do you think I am gaining treasure in heaven by not asking or pushing for what I want? Will I be rewarded for giving others what they want when at times it is probably not in their best interest in the long term to have it? I know sometimes I'm enabling those around me to persist with selfish or unhealthy lifestyles.
What say you - are motivations more important than deeds?

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meek,
πραεῖς (praeis)
Adjective - Nominative Masculine Plural
Strong's Greek 4239: Mild, gentle. Apparently a primary word; mild, i.e. humble.

Being mild, and gentle, does not mean doormat. Being a meek person, does not mean letting people step on you.

I'm going to give you my take, and you need to get more advice than just me, and then see what you think is best.

To me, being a meek father for example, means someone who is strong and tough about right and wrong, but enforces it gently. I see a great father doing that by saying to his teenage daughter.... No, you are not going out wearing that.

"But but but my friends, and this is the in-style, and everyone thinks it's cute"

... yes I understand that, but I love you enough to say, no you are not going out like that.

Gentle... but strong.

The version of 'meek' that I see written in your post, is more of the doormat meek.

I don't think that version of meek, will get much reward in Heaven.

If King David had been that version of Meek, he would have been killed by Goliath, or killed by King Saul, before every becoming King.

When I think of the version of meek you wrote, I think of Eli from 1 Samuel.

You know Eli was exceptionally meek to his sons. When they started engaging in terrible acts, Eli gave a 3 minute speech, and did nothing.

What was the result? G-d had his two sons slaughtered, and Eli died, and his family was removed from the priesthood for generations. Read chapter 4 of 1 Samuel.

Being meek, doesn't mean just going with the flow. Being meek, means standing for whats right, and against what is evil... but doing so gently.

I'll be the first to admit, I have a hard time with being meek. I call stuff out how I see it, and tend to come across like a sledgehammer.

But your version of meek, is not good. You need to stand for what is right, and you need to accept criticism. In fact, the Bible even warns us to beware when everyone speaks well of us. If you are going through life, and no one ever criticizes you, then you are doing it wrong. That's bad sign. Lots of people go to hell, with endless accolades all the way there.

curty said:

I'm a naturally easy going person who generally avoids conflict at any cost. I concede and go without what I want nine times out of ten - closer to ten out of ten if I'm honest.
My reasons for doing so are mostly out of insecurity. I'm sensitive to criticism and when people challenge or disagree with me I feel it acutely. On the other hand it makes me feel good to do what others want especially when I don't want to and there is a cost to me.
Do you think I am gaining treasure in heaven by not asking or pushing for what I want? Will I be rewarded for giving others what they want when at times it is probably not in their best interest in the long term to have it? I know sometimes I'm enabling those around me to persist with selfish or unhealthy lifestyles.
What say you - are motivations more important than deeds?

Click to expand...

This is a topic that opinion are divided on in the church, which is okay because is is not a salvation issue, but I don't believe there are different levels of rewards in Heaven. There is only one reward, an eternal relationship with God.

In the specific case of the beatitudes, Jesus isn't saying "if you do this, then you get this". Especially since some of the things on the list aren't even moral choices. Mourning is something everyone experiences in life, but unsaved people will not be comforted when they die even though they have mourned. Jesus is pointing out characteristics of people that, in general, society tends to look down upon or pity or as having an unfulfilling life, and the fact that all those things will be rectified in Heaven for those who believe. The only thing that won't be rectified, and is thus worthy of pity, is unbelief.

As far as not asking or pushing for what you want goes, why would you do that? Well I guess you did just say it was out of insecurity, which I can totally relate to, but is that a good reason to something? No, not at all. What about if you enjoy helping and seeing others happy? If that is the case, then what if others what to have that same joy of helping you an seeing you happy? Both giving and receiving are important things to do. Receiving is not the same as taking, and asking is not the same as demanding. One person giving necessarily requires someone else to be receiving, so if receiving is a sin then giving is also a sin. You can make an effort to give more than you receive, but don't reject or feel guilty when someone gives to you.

Also, as you mentioned, giving someone something simply because they want it can sometimes be enabling. Drug addicts can be an example of this, but an even more common an example is children. If you want to be a good parent there will be lots of times you will have to say no. Developing the courage to tell someone no because it is the right thing to do or the best thing for them is something you'll have to develop as you become a more mature Christian.