Is Salvation not good enough?

Verses on the Error of Christians saying they cannot walk uprightly:

Jesus says,


Jesus also says,


And Peter says,

Paul says,

Jason0047 said:

To All Who Will Hear:

Also, believers can sometimes sin on occasion, but this is not supposed to be the norm. For Paul says we used to be sinners (Ephesians 2:2-3) (Colossians 3:5-7). John says that If a believer sins, they are supposed to confess of their sin (1 John 1:9), and forsake it (1 John 1:7, 1 John 2:1) (Also see: Proverbs 28:13).

As for the Belief Alone Proponents common false use of the works of the flesh in reference to good works:

Actually, the Bible says the works of the flesh are certain sins (See: Galatians 5:19-21).

As for the Belief Alone Proponent's mention of Humility:

It is not the same as the Bible's teaching on humility.
Again, 1 Timothy 6:3-4 teaches that being proud (the opposite of being humble) is to NOT agreeing with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness.
Most Belief Alone Proponents I have encountered speak against the words of Jesus in Luke 10:25-28, Matthew 19:17-19, Matthew 5:22, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46.

As for the Belief Alone Proponent's View on the Lord's Commandments:

Many of them are confused on this issue. They think God's commands are the Law of Moses (Which is no longer in effect in regards to salvation). Others in the Belief Alone Camp think the NT Law is in effect, but not many. But they all think that obedience to God's commands does not deal with eternal life (Which runs contrary to the words of Jesus - Luke 10:25-28, Matthew 19:17-19, and the words of their followers like John - 1 John 2:3-4, 1 John 3:15, etc.).

Many Belief Alone Proponents I have encountered have mocked the believer's walk in striving to live holy. Yet, they fail to understand that without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). They fail to understand that he that does righteousness is righteous (1 John 3:7).


Side Note:

Please take note that I fixed a few typos from my previous post (leaving it blank), and reposted my post again here.

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Jason0047 said:

Verses on the Error of Christians saying they cannot walk uprightly:

Jesus says,

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 5:16).​

Jesus also says,

"You give glory to my Father when you produce a lot of fruit and therefore show that you are my disciples." (John 15:8 GW).​

And Peter says,

"Be careful to live properly among your unbelieving neighbors. Then even if they accuse you of doing wrong, they will see your honorable behavior, and they will give honor to God when he judges the world." (1 Peter 2:12 NLT).​

Paul says,

"That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" (Philippians 2:15).​

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Jason0047 said:

. Not all sin is the same. I explained this at length with Scripture already in Post Numbers 243, and 244. Also, believers can sometimes sin on occasion, but this is not supposed to be the norm. For Paul says we used to be sinners (Ephesians 2:2-3) (Colossians 3:5-7). Peter says that If a believer sins, they are supposed to confess of their sin (1 John 1:9), and forsake it (1 John 1:7, 1 John 2:1) (Also see: Proverbs 28:13).

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When will the list of acceptable sin be drafted?

These "Typos" were found in the lost and found. Still waiting.

Grip Docility said:

This is a random giphy posted for no reason whatsoever.

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Ever see the GIF from "Scanners"?

The Gospel Truth... Posted Randomly, for no reason, whatsoever.

Jason0047 said:

Not sure it is worth arguing with you.

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Ultimately, it's not really me you're having this discussion with. I know atheists, Hindus and the rest. They say that when they read or hear things similar to the post you made, it gives them a very distorted view of what Christianity is.

Putting aside yours and my religious disagreements, is it really that hard for you to admit that there's a better way?

To All Who Will Hear:

To the Belief Alone Proponents out there who propose that "Heart Circumcision" is the same as "Circumcision Salvationism."

Such a statement needs no real defense because we know that they are not the same thing.

Circumcision of the Heart is another way of saying "Born Again" or to be spiritually changed in the heart. This happens when a person genuinely repents (seeks forgiveness) with the Lord with the intention that they will forsake their sin. To learn more about this, see this old thread here at CF.

Belief Alone Proponents have also falsely suggested that Jesus was not talking literally in his warning on sin in Matthew 5:28-30 based on the fact that Jesus told us to pluck out our eyes, etc. But this is a misconnect. Surely we use metaphor or slang words in our literal conversations all the time. People can say, "That's cool." (When they are saying that it is really neat). Or people can that somebody "bought the farm" within a literal sentence and yet it is talking about how somebody died. It does not mean that the rest of the sentence is metaphorical just because people use slang. Besides, the Bible warns elsewhere that adulterers will not inherit the Kingdom of God (See Galatians 5:19-21).

Some in the Belief Alone Camp suggest that is impossible to obey Jesus perfectly to be saved:

But again, they fail to understand that not all sins are the same (as mentioned in my previous posts). 1 John 5:17 teaches that there is not a sin unto death. So again, not all sin is the same.

Also, many in the Belief Alone Camp do not realize that not all commands are for believers today. So they will try to be cute and quote verses like Mark 8:30. But the discerning believer knows better. They only will apply those commands that they can actually obey. Why would they try to obey a command that was only for specific individuals? It makes no sense. For surely we are not going to be building an Ark or anything. Oh, wait. Somebody did that already.

Some in the Belief Alone Camp will ask if believers such as me are obeying in secret:

Well, I am not above the Word of God anymore than anyone else is. So if it is in the Word of God, I am always striving to practice and apply those commands (like doing certain things in secret before the Father). But I will let God be my judge ultimately. But if a person does certain things to be seen by men, according to Scripture things will not go well for them. So yes, I believe there are CERTAIN things we must do in secret instead of in public for the Lord. The Bible clearly teaches this. Start with the Sermon on the Mount and this will become evident.

thecolorsblend said:

Ultimately, it's not really me you're having this discussion with. I know atheists, Hindus and the rest. They say that when they read or hear things similar to the post you made, it gives them a very distorted view of what Christianity is.

Putting aside yours and my religious disagreements, is it really that hard for you to admit that there's a better way?

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I think you are just hitting the disagree button for no good reason.
Please stop doing that.
Again, do you believe that we are saved by the following equation?


Please take note that Justification also includes believing in the gospel (i.e. believing in His death and resurrection for salvation); And this sometimes includes seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ.

If this is not the equation you agree with in regards to salvation, then by all means, tell me what you think the "Salvation" equation looks like.

Please also realize that I do believe in Glorification (Which is God coming to take us home). But that is entirely a work of God by the result of our faith and faithful obedience.

Jason0047 said:

"God's grace through faith in Jesus (Justification)
+ Works of Faith (Sanctification)
= Salvation"​

Please take note that Justification also includes believing in the gospel (i.e. believing in His death and resurrection for salvation); And this sometimes includes seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ.

If this is not the equation you agree with in regards to salvation, then by all means, tell me what you think the "Salvation" equation looks like.

Please also realize that I do believe in Glorification (Which is God coming to take us home). But that is entirely a work of God by the result of our faith and faithful obedience.

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You have the Works flowing from faith!!!!

You are literally omitting the most important part!

Faith IN Jesus = Works Of Jesus

Is this so hard to comprehend???

Faith in Jesus + Faith in Human Flesh = Trouble

Jesus’ Flesh? Well alright then!!!
Our Flesh?

What should be learned today?

Faith in Jesus = Salvation

God + Incarnation + God’s Works + Death + Burial + Resurrection + Ascension = Complete Work Of Salvation (X)

Faith * X = Complete in Christ


Post courtesy of one of those filthy “Faith In Jesus, Alone” proponents.

Jason0047 said:

I think you are just hitting the disagree button for no good reason.
Please stop doing that.
Again, do you believe that we are saved by the following equation?

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Again, this is not about what I do or don't believe.

Post #243 and thoughts which are similar to it are misleading to non-believers. It gives them a very wrong impression of the gospel. We Christians do not preach and teach a hollow form of moralism. Rather, we teach Our Lord and Him crucified.

It's amazing to think that it's taken this many posts to get through to you and I'm still not sure that I've done the job. So consider this my last attempt. You can have the final word since that seems to be your main priority anyway.

Belief Alone Proponents falsely accuse "Faith + Works of Faith" Christians that they are doing the works alone of their own effort alone. But nothing could be further from the truth.

I wrote the following below a long while back:


Hopefully this will show that their false accusations are just a false attempt to attack something that is does not exist for all "Faith + Works of Faith" Christians.

thecolorsblend said:

Again, this is not about what I do or don't believe.

Post #243 and thoughts which are similar to it are misleading to non-believers. It gives them a very wrong impression of the gospel. We Christians do not preach and teach a hollow form of moralism. Rather, we teach Our Lord and Him crucified.

It's amazing to think that it's taken this many posts to get through to you and I'm still not sure that I've done the job. So consider this my last attempt. You can have the final word since that seems to be your main priority anyway.

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Yes, it is.
If you do not answer a simple question, then that means you are just disagreeing with me for no real good reason. So again, I ask you how do you define the "Salvation Equation"?

If you do not answer, I am moving on from talking to you. I say this because it makes it seem like you have something to hide (Which could expose your strong disagreement with my words).

Grip Docility said:

Post taken from Here

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Aha! I agree with you. James isn't arguing against faith alone. James is agreeing with Jesus, where John 15 is written.

I'll craft an analogy...

Lets say there is a mighty body of water...



A piece of Bamboo can divert some of this water to be diverted by a system of Bamboo, for 100's of miles.



The Bamboo will have this water flowing from it, as long as it stays "in" the original water source.

This is Faith.

The water is not our own and merely flows through us as a result of our Faith.

Grip Docility said:

Attn: Gospel subject to Legal underwriting fine print.

Spoiler

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:16 subset (A)... legal underwriting... This Complete Policy is thus revealed as unlimited until it's no longer unlimited, upon acceptance of it's limitless clause, which thus, duly reverts it back to a "Limited" clause. Thus you, the Salvee, accepts this "partially free" gift that was hereby ratified as free, by the Divine attorney, who deemed it a free offer, but due to Spiritual constraints and a desire to prevent exhaustion of Divine Righteousness offered in "Asset Clause", from "Righteousness" Annuity, that is globally offered, but individually received, must understand that thus this "unlimited asset" is limited upon acceptance.

- Signed by The Management

Spoiler

Galatians 1:1-6

Spoiler

The Paul clause: any attempt to alter the "Free Gift" upon "Belief clause" will duly be rendered per the Galatians 1.1.6 clause, and all Righteousness promised by Jesus, is thus reinstated to the insuree... in full, under the Divine gift clause.

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You do realize that my point was that Paul said we are under obligation not to the flesh but to the Spirit right? Those who live according to the flesh must die but if we live according to the Spirit we do not partake of the sins of the flesh and we will live as God’s adopted children.

“So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh- for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.”
‭‭ROMANS‬ ‭8:12-14‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Notice his choice of words “we are under obligation to the Spirit”. This means we owe or are in debt to the Spirit. This is the Greek definition of the word used.

1) one who owes another, a debtor a) one held by some obligation, bound by some duty b) one who has not yet made amends to whom he has injured:

1) one who owes God penalty or whom God can demand punishment as something due, i.e. a sinner

Debt and obligation implies something we owe or must do. We owe The Spirit our loyalty and devotion (qualities of faith). Our walk in the Spirit is a choice that we must make. If we choose to walk in the flesh death will be our punishment and we will not receive life. That’s the message in Romans 8.

To Those Who Will Hear:

Again, not in disagreement that God does the good work through believers in the Sanctification Process or in doing good works.
I have believed that for a long time now.

See Post #315.

Grip Docility said:

Aha! I agree with you. James isn't arguing against faith alone. James is agreeing with Jesus, where John 15 is written.

I'll craft an analogy...

Lets say there is a mighty body of water...

A piece of Bamboo can divert some of this water to be diverted by a system of Bamboo, for 100's of miles.

The Bamboo will have this water flowing from it, as long as it stays "in" the original water source.

This is Faith.

The water is not our own and merely flows through us as a result of our Faith.

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How does verse 2 fit into this analogy? The bamboo is in the water but there’s none coming out.

BNR32FAN said:

You do realize that my point was that Paul said we are under obligation not to the flesh but to the Spirit right? Those who live according to the flesh must die but if we live according to the Spirit we do not partake of the sins of the flesh and we will live as God’s adopted children.

“So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh- for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.”
‭‭ROMANS‬ ‭8:12-14‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Notice his choice of words “we are under obligation to the Spirit”. This means we owe or are in debt to the Spirit. This is the Greek definition of the word used.

1) one who owes another, a debtor a) one held by some obligation, bound by some duty b) one who has not yet made amends to whom he has injured:

1) one who owes God penalty or whom God can demand punishment as something due, i.e. a sinner

Debt and obligation implies something we owe or must do. We owe The Spirit our loyalty and devotion (qualities of faith). Our walk in the Spirit is a choice that we must make. If we choose to walk in the flesh death will be our punishment and we will not receive life. That’s the message in Romans 8.

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I would Word it far different, but you posted the scripture without injecting Salvic Requirement beyond the cross.

The Lillie’s of the field are provided for.

How much more wonderfully does God cloth those with Faith in Him.

BNR32FAN said:

How does verse 2 fit into this analogy?

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People can produce false fruit. Only fruit that naturally flows from a heart of sincere honesty and gratitude to Christ Alone is going to carry the True seed that will bear more fruit as the message is sewn.

People eat the fruit and are then led towards embracing the Seed of the Fruit, which has to be Jesus.

False fruit will produce a crop of false fruit.

In Revelation, the fine linen is described as the righteousness of the saints (Revelation 19:8).
This would be both God's grace through faith, and the working of God to do good works within the believer. But make no mistake, doing righteousness makes one righteous.

For 1 John 3:7 says "he that does righteousness is righteous."
The imputed aspect of Christ's blood is applied when we walk in the light (See 1 John 1:7).
Walking in the light is loving your brother (See 1 John 2:9-11).
Not loving your brother (i.e. hating your brother) means that one does not have eternal life abiding in them (See 1 John 3:15).

Jason0047 said:

In Revelation, the fine linen is described as the righteousness of the saints (Revelation 19:8).
This would be both God's grace through faith, and the working of God to do good works within the believer. But make no mistake, doing righteousness makes one righteous.

For 1 John 3:7 says "he that does righteousness is righteous."
The imputed aspect of Christ's blood is applied when we walk in the light (See 1 John 1:7).
Walking in the light is loving your brother (See 1 John 2:9-11).

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Then Love your brother and look to their Heart, not their flesh...

Isn’t that what Jesus did?