Is Salvation not good enough?

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Grip Docility

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I will do what you will not do.
I will explain the verses.



Sorry, I beat you to it on quoting 2 Peter 3:16; Either that or you are copying me again. Anyways, in my defense of quoting 2 Peter 3:16, I provided a ton of verses using 8 points proving why Paul was speaking as a Pharisee in Romans 7:14-24 (and not as a Christian) (See Post #211).

In fact, your belief in no way is supported by your quoting of 2 Peter 3:16.
Try going back to the previous chapter and re-read it.
For if a person were to read 2 Peter 2 carefully, they will notice that Peter talks about false teachers in 2 Peter 2:1, and then he mentions how these false teachers are identified in the fact that they do not cease from sin (2 Peter 2:14).
How exactly does a sin and still be saved belief work if Peter condemned those for doing so?



"Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression." (Romans 4:15).

What Law is Paul referring to?
All law?
Or the 613 Old Testament laws from the Law of Moses?
I would say it was the Old Law because Paul is referring to circumcision in the previous chapter (See: Romans 3:1).

Paul said elsewhere that if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ, and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (See: 1 Timothy 6:3-4).

Paul mentioned that there is a Law called: The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus in Romans 8:2.
Is that the Law of Moses?
Or is that a New Covenant Law?
Does this Law not include walking after the Spirit and not after the flesh (i.e. sin)? (See Romans 8:1).

Also, why does the Law work wrath?
It's because you could be physically killed for disobeying the Old Testament Law of Moses.
This is not the case in the New Covenant.
The law of the land is supposed to judge men and not God's people.



This is clearly talking about the Law of Moses, because the context is in reference to Israel (See Romans 10:1). The Israelites followed the Old Law and not the laws by Jesus and His followers. But of course you have to take verses like this out of context to make your belief work here.



And if you were to skip back a chapter (Hebrews 3), you would realize that a person can harden their hearts by the deceitfulness of sin and thereby depart from the living God by doing so (See Hebrews 3:12-14).



A person is only to be restored back if they follow the protocol in James 5:19-20.
If a believer is to struggle with sin, they are to confess of that sin and other believers can pray for that believer to overcome their grievous sin (See 1 John 5:16-17).
This is what it means to bear one another's burdens.

But my guess is you have no idea what these passages even say.
For passages like these have to go either ignored or changed in your belief.



First, how can love cover a multitude of sins if all future sin is paid for by having a belief in Jesus.
Second, skip back up to 1 Peter 4:1-2.
Verse 1 essentially says that the person who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin (Note: I believe this is referring to grievous sin). Verse 2 says we are not to live the rest of the time here on Earth to the lusts of the flesh, but to the will of God.



Skip back up and read the context. In verse 14, it says they have eyes full of adultery, and they cannot cease from sin. Do you just skip passed verses like 2 Peter 2:14?



Both of these chapters are talking about the Justification Process and they are not talking about the Sanctification Process that follows Justification. For it is clear that Ephesians 2 is talking about "Initial Salvation" because Ephesians 2:1 talks about how we are quickened. Believers are quickened one time. Ephesians 2:8 talks about how we are saved by God's grace through faith is like a gift. Gifts are received one time. Ephesians 3:17 says that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith.

Galatians 3 is also talking about "Initial Salvation" because the "Law" (the Old Law) was a school master to bring us unto Christ. The Old Law was never for the Gentiles but it was only for the nation of Israel. Granted, the Gentiles by nature sometimes obeyed the Moral Law within the Old Law (See Romans 2). So the Moral Law shows a person that they have broken it, and they need a Savior. Again, this would be "Initial Salvation" because the Old Law was a means to pointing us to Christ.

I seriously appreciate your fervor for God. In witness, I approach all as more righteous than myself, and deliver the hope, from that stance.

You might even say, I'm hoping the person allows me to take the LOWEST SERVANT's Job, by "Washing their Feet".

Sin and Satan are REAL! It grips people like nothing else and they not only feel condemned and like Lepors in their hearts, but they feel HOPELESS.

This is and always will be my stance.

God Bless you, fervent Brother of the Law. Please listen! Do not empty the Cross of it's absolute, Sovereign Power, endowed by YHWH.


That LOVE UNCONDITIONAL of JESUS CHRIST does this:

TO1zDG.gif

But, Brother! Go and learn what being WISE as a SERPENT, BUT HARMLESS as a DOVE means.
 
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To Jason,

If you don't understand that Righteousness is the Covering of God (Galatians 3:27 ; 1 Peter 3:11 ; 1 Peter 3:21)... I fear you will present this to Him (Isaiah 64:6)

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." (Galatians 3:27).

This is talking about overcoming grievous sin.

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" (Romans 6:3).

"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Romans 6:6-7).

"Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body,
that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof." (Romans 6:12).

"For the wages of sin is death; but
the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:23).

Again, the true imputation of Christ's sacrifice that you will ignore is 1 John 1:7.
It essentially says that if we walk after the light as He (Christ) is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ CLEANSES us (not covers) of all sin.

Walking in the light is loving your brother (See 1 John 2:9-11).
For hating your brother means that one is like a murderer and no eternal life abides in them (See: 1 John 3:15).

Hebrews 5:9 essentially says that Christ is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him.

As for your quote of 1 Peter 3:11 out of context:

If you were to only read and believe the next verse, it would refute your belief here.

"For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil." (1 Peter 3:12).

The Lord is against them that do evil.
So if you are doing evil, the Lord is against you.
That is what it is saying.

1 Peter 3:21 is talking about how baptism itself (as a command) is not about putting away sin, but that baptism is a picture or symbol of Christ's death and a picture or symbol of how we have died to ourselves by crucifying the affections and lusts (See Galatians 5:24).
 
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thecolorsblend

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So are you saying that you don't believe a person needs to be first saved by God's grace through faith?

If so, what about Ephesians 2:8-9?
What I'm saying is nonsense like that sends literally the opposite message to non-believers than what was probably intended.

All the scripture quotations in the world won't change their mind on that point.
 
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As for Isaiah 64:6:

Again, please read the entire chapter. It is not talking about obeying God's commands. That's insane. It's talking about trying to be righteous on one's own terms without following God's commands.
 
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Grip Docility

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"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." (Galatians 3:27).

This is talking about overcoming grievous sin.

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" (Romans 6:3).

"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Romans 6:6-7).

"Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body,
that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof." (Romans 6:12).

"For the wages of sin is death; but
the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:23).

Again, the true imputation of Christ's sacrifice that you will ignore is 1 John 1:7.
It essentially says that if we walk after the light as He (Christ) is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ CLEANSES us (not covers) of all sin.

Walking in the light is loving your brother (See 1 John 2:9-11).
For hating your brother means that one is like a murderer and no eternal life abides in them (See: 1 John 3:15).

Hebrews 5:9 essentially says that Christ is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him.

As for your quote of 1 Peter 3:11 out of context:

If you were to only read and believe the next verse, it would refute your belief here.

"For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil." (1 Peter 3:12).

The Lord is against them that do evil.
So if you are doing evil, the Lord is against you.
That is what it is saying.

1 Peter 3:21 is talking about how baptism itself (as a command) is not about putting away sin, but that baptism is a picture or symbol of Christ's death and a picture or symbol of how we have died to ourselves by crucifying the affections and lusts (See Galatians 5:24).

Without Jesus, we're all Godless reprobates. Evil is not what many make it out to be.

You can wield the Scriptures to bring hope, or condemnation. Jesus literally did the same thing in parable, by leaving the key to repentance or self sufficiency.

You have choice and with that... I'll leave you to it.

Matthew 9:13
 
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What I'm saying is nonsense like that sends literally the opposite message to non-believers than what was probably intended.

All the scripture quotations in the world won't change their mind on that point.

It is written,

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." (1 Corinthians 1:18).
 
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It is written,

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." (1 Corinthians 1:18).

Right,

Why would God, perfect God, ... God the Son, who was sent by God the Father, Die for Sinners, so He could impart His precious Holy Spirit to them....

Wait for it....

WHILE THEY WERE YET SINNERS?
 
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I have a deal... I have a "Free Gift" to give everyone here...

2 months later I'll start charging daily installments to each who gratefully receives this free gift.

I just need addresses and bank accounts. You're welcome, in advance.
 
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John 4:34 is Jesus saying that is His work. The commandments of God are to Love Him and our Neighbor.

We are told to follow Christ as an example (See 1 John 2:3-6).
Also, not everyone who says unto me, Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but He that does the WILL of the Father (Matthew 7:21). We know that God's will is our Sanctification (1 Thessalonians 4:3).

You said:
By tying up heavy burdens of the Law of Sin on peoples backs, thy neighbor is being Hated. People can say they are saying one thing, then say another. This is why people are called duplicitous that are weak in faith. It's either Jesus saves, or a person Saves themselves. No in-between.

I have and always will proclaim.. To God Alone, be the Glory.

This is merely your own thoughts and not anything from the Bible.
Chapter and verse please.
 
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bcbsr

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Right,

Why would God, perfect God, ... God the Son, who was sent by God the Father, Die for Sinners, so He could impart His precious Holy Spirit to them....

Wait for it....

WHILE THEY WERE YET SINNERS?
And not only that Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! For if, when we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!
 
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Without Jesus, we're all Godless reprobates. Evil is not what many make it out to be.

You can wield the Scriptures to bring hope, or condemnation. Jesus literally did the same thing in parable, by leaving the key to repentance or self sufficiency.

You have choice and with that... I'll leave you to it.

Matthew 9:13

Jesus said He calls sinners to repentance.
Repentance is calling on the Lord Jesus for forgiveness over one's sins (Matthew 12:41) (cf. Jonah 3:6-10) (Acts of the Apostles 8:22); This includes forsaking sin (Proverbs 28:13) because why would a person say they are sorry if they are going to go and do evil again? It makes no sense. Such a person would not really be sorry if they plan to sin again.

For example: Is a husband really sorry over his cheating on his wife, if he just keeps saying he is sorry and he does not plan to ever stop? No. He may feel bad about it, but unless he stops, he is not truly sorry.

Anyways, I am moving on from talking to you.

Your posts from here on out will be addressed generally to all people.
 
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Jason - why hijack this thread when there are a dozen or more in the Forum with your pet agenda, some of which you may have started?

I believe that I ought to obey God rather than men.

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine." (2 Timothy 4:2).
 
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Grip Docility

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Anyways, I am moving on from talking to you.

Your posts from here on out will be addressed generally to all people.

? Huh

When you chain up the Free Man... and post it as "To All who Read This"... it's to me? I already knew this.

Bad news.... The Same Spirit (Romans 8:9) that resides in me, will be there to post back, long after I'm gone. (Catholic and Protestant) alike.
 
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thecolorsblend

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It is written,

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." (1 Corinthians 1:18).
What you've done isn't preaching the cross. Quite the opposite, you've preached Christianity as a therapeutic model of moral rearmament... which is why non-Christians don't find stuff like...

Please understand that it is not possible for a person to obey God's commands without them first being saved by Jesus Christ and His grace

... persuasive in the least. If anything, they feel affirmed by their own perceived moral virtue as you yourself describe it in post #243 rather than recognize their need for a savior.
 
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To all:

There is a difference between Corporate Salvation (Unlimited Atonement), and Individual Salvation. Christ dying for us while we were yet sinners is referring to "Corporate Salvation" (Where Christ died for the sins of the whole world) so that man can be offered the free gift of salvation. Individual Salvation is talking about those who actually receive the gift of Christ and they are responsible with such a gift.
 
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Grip Docility

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To all:

There is a difference between Corporate Salvation (Unlimited Atonement), and Individual Salvation. Christ dying for us while we were yet sinners is referring to "Corporate Salvation" (Where Christ died for the sins of the whole world) so that man can be offered the free gift of salvation. Individual Salvation is talking about those who actually receive the gift of Christ and they are responsible with such a gift.

:| :doh: :sigh:

Attn: Gospel subject to Legal underwriting fine print. :help:

2297956ffb4de3a30a543ddc48ab69f0--attorney-humor-law-school-humor.jpg

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:16 subset (A)... legal underwriting... This Complete Policy is thus revealed as unlimited until it's no longer unlimited, upon acceptance of it's limitless clause, which thus, duly reverts it back to a "Limited" clause. Thus you, the Salvee, accepts this "partially free" gift that was hereby ratified as free, by the Divine attorney, who deemed it a free offer, but due to Spiritual constraints and a desire to prevent exhaustion of Divine Righteousness offered in "Asset Clause", from "Righteousness" Annuity, that is globally offered, but individually received, must understand that thus this "unlimited asset" is limited upon acceptance.

- Signed by The Management

Galatians 1:1-6
The Paul clause: any attempt to alter the "Free Gift" upon "Belief clause" will duly be rendered per the Galatians 1.1.6 clause, and all Righteousness promised by Jesus, is thus reinstated to the insuree... in full, under the Divine gift clause.
 
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To Those Have Ears to Hear:

As for those who may quote Romans 8:9 in defense of Eternal Security or Belief Alone-ism:

The Bible says that the Holy Ghost is given to those who obey Him,

"And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." (Acts of the Apostles 5:32).​

For if one lives after the flesh (sin) they will die (For the wages of sin is death - Romans 6:23), but if you through the Spirit mortify (put to death) the deeds of the body (sin), you shall live (have eternal life).

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." (Romans 8:13).​

For we have to walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh (sin) in order to not be under the Condemnation (See Romans 8:1 in the KJV).

Galatians 5:16 says to walk after the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. The lusts of the flesh is described as certain grievous sin like adultery, murders, and idolatry, etc. in Galatians 5:19-21. Paul says that they who do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
 
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Grip Docility

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To Those Have Ears to Hear:

As for those who may quote Romans 8:9 in defense of Eternal Security or Belief Alone-ism:

The Bible says that the Holy Ghost is given to those who obey Him,

"And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." (Acts of the Apostles 5:32).​

For if one lives after the flesh (sin) they will die (For the wages of sin is death - Romans 6:23), but if you through the Spirit mortify (put to death) the deeds of the body (sin), you shall live (have eternal life).

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." (Romans 8:13).​

For we have to walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh (sin) in order to not be under the Condemnation (See Romans 8:1 in the KJV).

Acts of the apostles 15:10

:| :doh: :sigh:

Attn: Gospel subject to Legal underwriting fine print. :help:

2297956ffb4de3a30a543ddc48ab69f0--attorney-humor-law-school-humor.jpg

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:16 subset (A)... legal underwriting... This Complete Policy is thus revealed as unlimited until it's no longer unlimited, upon acceptance of it's limitless clause, which thus, duly reverts it back to a "Limited" clause. Thus you, the Salvee, accepts this "partially free" gift that was hereby ratified as free, by the Divine attorney, who deemed it a free offer, but due to Spiritual constraints and a desire to prevent exhaustion of Divine Righteousness offered in "Asset Clause", from "Righteousness" Annuity, that is globally offered, but individually received, must understand that thus this "unlimited asset" is limited upon acceptance.

- Signed by The Management

Galatians 1:1-6
The Paul clause: any attempt to alter the "Free Gift" upon "Belief clause" will duly be rendered per the Galatians 1.1.6 clause, and all Righteousness promised by Jesus, is thus reinstated to the insuree... in full, under the Divine gift clause.
 
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