The Moral Argument (revamped)

createdtoworship

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So you’re losing on purpose to free up space in Heaven? Ok then.
I would not say that. It's that God wants quality, there is a purpose for the gospel, to free from sin, in order to Glorify God. Modern evangelism says come to God He wI'll give you fulfillment and joy. Instead of pick up your cross and follow Him . Jesus never wanted believers only, He wanted followers.
 
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Sanoy

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I have intentionally avoided this thread because of it's size. I only now opened it because I wondered how far off topic it is. We Christians have a large space to roam whereas the non Christians have but a small realm to monitor and get involved in stuff as it comes up. There is a lot we just miss. I personally feel it's disrespectful to bust into a thread without reading it through first, and I feel many of us roamers feel the same and so that may be why there are few of us here.
 
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gaara4158

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I would not say that. It's that God wants quality, there is a purpose for the gospel, to free from sin, in order to Glorify God. Modern evangelism says come to God He wI'll give you fulfillment and joy. Instead of pick up your cross and follow Him . Jesus never wanted believers only, He wanted followers.
The atheists here were neither believers nor followers at the time you showed up. What do you think you have accomplished by representing your side so poorly?
 
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createdtoworship

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I have intentionally avoided this thread because of it's size. I only now opened it because I wondered how far off topic it is. We Christians have a large space to roam whereas the non Christians have but a small realm to monitor and get involved in stuff as it comes up. There is a lot we just miss. I personally feel it's disrespectful to bust into a thread without reading it through first, and I feel many of us roamers feel the same and so that may be why there are few of us here.
welcome! join in on the debate.

It has been side tracked for several pages.

so far we have discussed how sacrificial love is not found in nature, and thus it has it's origins in God. Christian theology teaches a love for ones enemies but this is not emulated in nature, signifying that it's source is beyond nature (metaphysical).
 
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createdtoworship

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The atheists here were neither believers nor followers at the time you showed up. What do you think you have accomplished by representing your side so poorly?

Oh I have only provided what the Bible says, I am just a messenger. I didn't write the message, I wish I would have, it's genius. But it would not have the same authority as God obviously.
 
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gaara4158

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Oh I have only provided what the Bible says, I am just a messenger. I didn't write the message, I wish I would have, it's genius. But it would not have the same authority as God obviously.
So what do you think you have accomplished by representing your side so poorly?
 
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Uber Genius

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Oh I have only provided what the Bible says, I am just a messenger. I didn't write the message, I wish I would have, it's genius. But it would not have the same authority as God obviously.
Some individuals have no interest in thinking or weighing evidence. They consistently misrepresented arguments, offered genetic fallacies, refused to ground their view, and offer ad hominem attacks. As you put it, you offer "Logical debate," and some individuals responds with rhetorical flourish, personal attack, fallacious appeals. Why not just put them on "Ignore" rather than be dragged off topic and away from the argument?

There are many serious arguments for atheists and theists to discuss without wasting time responding to the class clowns.
 
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createdtoworship

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Some individuals have no interest in thinking or weighing evidence. They consistently misrepresented arguments, offered genetic fallacies, refused to ground their view, and offer ad hominem attacks. As you put it, you offer "Logical debate," and some individuals responds with rhetorical flourish, personal attack, fallacious appeals. Why not just put them on "Ignore" rather than be dragged off topic and away from the argument?

There are many serious arguments for atheists and theists to discuss without wasting time responding to the class clowns.
As soon as you make headway they just start mocking, some in fact have told me that they have no reservations against mocking other people's viewpoints. It's not really about evidence for them, it's about not wanting to be accountable to God for their fornication, drunkenness, homosexuality, and inappropriate contentography.
 
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ToddNotTodd

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So what do you think you have accomplished by representing your side so poorly?
Well, he’s mentioned trying to weed out Christians who might deconvert when shown what they feel are bad arguments for the Christian god’s existence.

So presumably he’s set up a win win situation for himself. If someone deconverts because of his arguments, great. And if someone converts because of his arguments, great.

What’s funny is that I can use the same reasoning to create a win win for myself. Although my ego doesn’t need that kind of thing...
 
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createdtoworship

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Well, he’s mentioned trying to weed out Christians who might deconvert when shown what they feel are bad arguments for the Christian god’s existence.

So presumably he’s set up a win win situation for himself. If someone deconverts because of his arguments, great. And if someone converts because of his arguments, great.

What’s funny is that I can use the same reasoning to create a win win for myself. Although my ego doesn’t need that kind of thing...
being a christian is a win win situation, nearly every situation is a win win. You should try it. It's called believing God is on the throne, if someone deconverts, God is cleaning out the church, if someone gets saved God is expanding the church, God wins no matter what. God would rather have four quarters than a hundred pennies, He is into quality not quantity.
 
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createdtoworship

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So what do you think you have accomplished by representing your side so poorly?
I can only pray that my words are the words God has given me. The Bible clearly says they are not rejecting me, but the creator.
 
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gaara4158

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Well, he’s mentioned trying to weed out Christians who might deconvert when shown what they feel are bad arguments for the Christian god’s existence.

So presumably he’s set up a win win situation for himself. If someone deconverts because of his arguments, great. And if someone converts because of his arguments, great.

What’s funny is that I can use the same reasoning to create a win win for myself. Although my ego doesn’t need that kind of thing...
Doing God’s work and the Devil’s work at the same time ^_^
 
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gaara4158

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I can only pray that my words are the words God has given me. The Bible clearly says they are not rejecting me, but the creator.
If you’re wrong, you’re doing the devil’s work. Isn’t it safer not to bother?
 
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createdtoworship

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If you’re wrong, you’re doing the devil’s work. Isn’t it safer not to bother?

The Bible says resist the devil and he flees. He doesn't want anything to do with this. Our prayer and obedience wrecks his strong holds every day. But he is a formidable enemy, one to never underestimate.
 
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gaara4158

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The Bible says resist the devil and he flees. He doesn't want anything to do with this. Our prayer and obedience wrecks his strong holds every day. But he is a formidable enemy, one to never underestimate.
So who’s to say he’s not disguising himself as a holy voice or guidance in your head?
 
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createdtoworship

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So who’s to say he’s not disguising himself as a holy voice or guidance in your head?

the Bible says once you are saved that it is impossible to be possessed. And since I read the Bible daily and obey it as best I can, I can tell the difference between what satan says in my ear, versus God's truth. Sort of like when you work at a bank handling real cash all day every day, as soon as a counterfeit comes through, you can actually feel in it how the grains are in the paper. It just comes from being in the truth. If you read the Bible daily, it would affect you too. You too would start to see that God is real and that you have been living a lie.
 
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gaara4158

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the Bible says once you are saved that it is impossible to be possessed. And since I read the Bible daily and obey it as best I can, I can tell the difference between what satan says in my ear, versus God's truth. Sort of like when you work at a bank handling real cash all day every day, as soon as a counterfeit comes through, you can actually feel in it how the grains are in the paper. It just comes from being in the truth. If you read the Bible daily, it would affect you too. You too would start to see that God is real and that you have been living a lie.
OR... you only THINK you’re interpreting the Bible correctly when actually the Devil has simultaneously possessed you and convinced you you couldn’t possibly be possessed because you’re “saved.” Do not underestimate the Devil.
 
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createdtoworship

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OR... you only THINK you’re interpreting the Bible correctly when actually the Devil has simultaneously possessed you and convinced you you couldn’t possibly be possessed because you’re “saved.” Do not underestimate the Devil.

God's holy spirit possesses me, and I know I am saved because I have love for others. Sometimes it's a tough love but it's there. Before I was christian I couldn't care less about others. When God resides in your heart, He puts up a no vacancy sign. Satan is not allowed to go there. However there is a story in the Bible of a man who had a demon and it was cast out, and He never gave His life to the Lord, so it came back in force, and brought in more demons that it had before and found his heart swept and all clean, and perfect for demonic possession. See cleaning up your life, after a situation like that won't help. I can see the temptation for someone in witchcraft to give up alcohol, or drugs after being possessed, but that won't help demons will come back to a swept house. They must allow God to reside there. By asking Him into our heart as our Lord and saviour and repenting of any known sins, and giving our life over to God, we become saved. God no longer resides in heaven, but in our heart. The Bible says "He that is in you is greater than he that is in the world."
 
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