You are very welcome. Here are my comments to your last post. First of all, Jesus is both man & God. As God He willingly gave His life, being sent by the Father as the Last Adam, to reconcile all things, both visible & invisible, by His perfect death, burial & resurrection out from among the dead. Romans 5 shows this clearly for one of the main reasons why Christ suffered, died & rose again & the contrast between the first Adam & the last Adam, Christ.
"You said: Christ DID NOT HAVE TO nor did He really want to go through the torture humiliation and murder, but out of Love for us did it."
Christ DID HAVE TO GO THROUGH IT! Without it there is no salvation, there is no redemption, there is no reconciliation between God & mankind. As I showed, this was already pre-determined before the universe was even created. When the first Adam sinned, the whole universe came under the law of sin & death & corruption. Man was now an enemy of God & in rebellion to Him & His holy commands, separated & alienated from God because of His sins & spiritually dead, not having the life of God. All were by nature children of wrath. (Eph 2)
THAT is the bad news of Scripture. Man cannot redeem himself nor make himself right with God. He is lost, helpless & alienated from God because of his sin & rebellion.
Romans 5:6 For while we were STILL HELPLESS, at the right time Christ DIED for the ungodly. For if while we were ENEMIES, we were reconciled to God through the DEATH of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
Christ DID HAVE TO GO THROUGH IT because the whole of the Old Testament (OT) PROPHESIED THAT HE WOULD & Christ must fulfill ALL these prophecies in order to be the Messiah promised & the suffering Messiah predicted, that would go through all these things. God doesn't lie. It had to happen just as it was prophesied! 100%. Or there would be no salvation, no reconciliation, no righteous sacrifice that would atone for sin & satisfy the holy justice of God & meet His legal requirements for unrighteous human beings being justified before God.
Christ DID HAVE TO GO THROUGH IT to demonstrate that He is the only One who was perfect, who never sinned while being human on this earth, the Lamb of God without blemish or defect, holy & perfect in all His ways. It is obvious that as a human being, it was something that He didn't want to to face. But what was the thing He didn't want to face? You apparently did not understand Hebrews 12 as seen in your various statements.
"The writers say “endure” and “scorning its shame” suggesting a huge displeasure?"
Your misunderstanding of 'scorning its shame' is monumental. It actually means the opposite of what you are saying! The word "despising" is from a Greek word 'kataphroneo' & the Greek Lexicon defines it as meaning to "think little or nothing of."
Christ thought little or nothing of the shame of the cross. Why? Because Christ had nothing to be ashamed of! They were all false accusations! He had already made Himself of no reputation, humbling Himself & taking on the form of a Servant & even death on a cross.
Christ's mind was on other things while on the cross: the taking care of His mother, those who has crucified Him & were mocking Him, asking the Father to forgive them. He was thinking of the repentant thief crucified next to Him.
What truly caused our Lord to shrink from what He was facing? Since it obviously WASN'T the shame concerning the cross, then what was it? THE WRATH OF ALMIGHTY GOD FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD FELL ON CHRIST. He also had to be cut off from the land of the living & experience the power of death in Hades for us & then conquer it.
Isaiah 53:4-12 Surely He took on our infirmities & carried our sorrows; yet we considered Him stricken by God, struck down & afflicted. But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him & by His stripes we are healed. We all like sheep have gone astray, each one has turned to his own way & the LORD has caused the iniquities of us all to FALL ON HIM. He was oppressed & afflicted, yet He did not open His mouth.
He was led like a lamb to the slaughter & as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so He did not open His mouth. By oppression & JUDGMENT He was taken away & who can recount His descendants? For He was cut off from the land of the living; He was stricken FOR THE TRANSGRESSION OF MY PEOPLE.
9He was assigned a grave with the wicked & with a rich man in His death, although He had done no violence, nor was any deceit in His mouth. YET IT WAS THE LORD'S WILL TO CRUSH & CAUSE HIM TO SUFFER, WHEN HIS SOUL IS MADE A GUILT OFFERING [for mankind}
He will SEE HIS OFFSPRING, He will prolong His days & the GOOD PLEASURE OF THE LORD WILL PROSPER IN HIS HAND. After the anguish of His soul, He will SEE THE LIGHT OF LIFE & BE SATISFIED. By His knowledge My righteous Servant will JUSTIFY MANY & HE WILL BEAR THEIR INIQUITIES.
Therefore I will allot Him a portion with the great & He will divide the spoils with the strong, because He has poured out His life unto death & He was numbered among the transgressors. Yet He bore the sin of many & made INTERCESSION for the transgressors. (Matthew 27:57-61; Mark 15:42-47; Luke 23:50-56; John 19:38-42)
Christ experienced as a human being what it was like to be separated from God, alienated & experienced God's righteous judgment for all the sins of the world that fell on Him. He remained God throughout it, but could say as a human being, 'why have you forsaken me.'
"Does a soldier really want to give up his life in battle to save his comrades, but will out of Love for them? He was not happy doing it."
Here again you seem not to understand giving up one's life for another, especially in war. The thought of not liking it doesn't enter the mind but the willingness to sacrifice one's life for others he loves is the foremost. He would gladly give up his life for another, just as Christ did.
And most decisions are made in a matter of a few seconds--showing this decision has ALREADY BEEN MADE PRIOR TO making the sacrifice of one's life for another.
That is the JOY set before the soldier & that is the joy set before our Lord: His sacrifice leading to the salvation of millions; His shed blood purchasing people from every tribe & language & nation! He reconciliation of all things both visible & invisible! His undoing what the first Adam did.
"Would it have been better: if people could fulfill their earthly objective without sinning & thus not needing Christ to going to the cross (another way) or would that have taken the pleasure of helping people away from Christ?"
Those are just speculations that have nothing to do with the reality of the truth, as I have already shown. Christ wasn't just 'helping' us--He literally rescued us from the slavemarket of sin--He took the wrath of God for us rebellious & wicked people. He Himself reconciled unreconcilable people.
"What makes Christ’s blood “precious”, if Christ did not value that blood in His veins?"
Again you seem to think Christ did not value that blood in His veins? Where did you get such an idea that is foreign to the truth of Scripture. Christ humbled Himself as God becoming a man in every way like us, without sin. He CHOSE to tabernacle among us, He CHOSE to experience what we experience. Every drop of His blood was precious to Himself as well as to us because it was the very means by which we are redeemed & purchased & bought & justified before the living God.
The joy set before Christ had nothing to do with DISCIPLINE or going through it WITH us. He went through it FOR US not with us. It is what He did, not what we did. We can do nothing to save ourselves. He is the One who saves us.
Second, Christ brought redemption & taking away the sin of the world, for separated people from God (not His children but children of wrath) so that they COULD BE made right with Him upon their repentance & faith in the once for all sacrificial death, burial & resurrection of Christ.
Only THEN could we be given the power & right to BECOME ADOPTED children of God & no longer facing the wrath & condemnation of God through faith in His shed blood & life.
Heb 12:7,8 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left WITHOUT discipline, in which all have participated, THEN YOU ARE ILLEGITIMATE CHILDREN & NOT SONS.
"Again what makes it “precious” (Hard to give up)?"
Precious does NOT mean hard to give up! Precious means something 'highly treasured, something of great value that is highly esteemed & cherished. ' It means something of great value & worth like Jesus showed in some of His parables. It is so precious that all other things ARE WILLINGLY GIVEN UP in comparison to this precious treasure!
Matt 13:44-46 “The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, & then IN HIS JOY went & sold all he had & bought that field. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant looking for fine pearls. When he found one of GREAT VALUE, he went away & SOLD EVERYTHING HE HAD & BOUGHT IT.
"Death comes after the torture, humiliation & murder of Christ & it is really when the atonement sacrifice stopped, as Jesus said before His death 'it is finished'."
Again you are not accurate as to what Scripture teaches. Christ's atoning sacrifice DIDN'T STOP--it is continuing to be applied to us in all phases of our salvation: saving us from the penalty of sin, saving us now by conquering the power of sin in our lives & will be the future in saving us from the presence of sin & being in glory with our Lord.
So in one sense, 'His hour had come & was completed or finished.' But His atonement & sacrifice CONTINUED AFTER DEATH. He had to conquer death. No resurrection, no life in the Spirit. He had to proclaim His victory to the spirits in prison & over all the forces of evil in the heavenly places. He also had to redeem & take 'captivitity captive' & remove all those in Hades that were believers & take all of them in Paradise up into the third heaven, to be with Him.
Now none of us dying will have to go to hades, we will go directly into the presence of the Lord!
Third, as a faithful High Priest of the New Covenant in the Melchizedek priesthood, His atoning sacrifice continues, because He now lives to continually make intercession for His people.
Heb 7:22-26 This makes Jesus the guarantor of a better covenant. The former priests were many in number, because they were prevented by death from continuing in office, but He holds His priesthood permanently, because He continues forever.
Consequently, He is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. For it was indeed fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, innocent, unstained, separated from sinners & exalted above the heavens.
What I felt was great gratitude for what Christ did for me & still do every time I think of it. I cried tears of joy because He saved me & gave me eternal life & I was willing to do anything for Him in return. It was not a tragedy but a TRIUMPH!
Col 2:15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
2 Cor 4:14-17 But thanks be to God, who in Christ always leads us in triumphal procession & through us spreads the fragrance of the knowledge of Him everywhere. For we are to God the sweet aroma of Christ among those who are being saved & those who are perishing; to one a fragrance from death to death, to the other a fragrance from life to life. Who is sufficient for these things?
It is apparent you also do not understand 'the fellowship of His sufferings' as Paul expressed it.
Phil 1:29 For you have been given not only the privilege of trusting in Christ but also the privilege of suffering for Him.
Knowing Christ as more important than anything in this life includes the power of His resurrection & the fellowship or koinonia or what we have in common with Christ--sharing His sufferings, filling up what is lacking right now in the body of Christ & also our fellow brethren suffering around the world because of their witness for Christ to a world that hates Him & us. We suffer as HIS BODY, with Him as the Head.
"God is not the undeserving kidnapper nor is satan, but the unbeliever is himself is holding back the child of God from the Father, that child that is within every one of us. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished. I do not like the word “unpunished” since the same Greek word also means “undisciplined."
Again you pull this out of context, ignoring the whole context of chapter 3 of Romans & want to change the remission of punishment to simply mean undisciplined, which in the context does not mean that at all. What God did was overlook the sins of those before the Law & those nations without the Law. This is with a clear view of what Christ was going to do on the cross.
God had to be BOTH righteous & holy & just to punish sin & yet also the justifier of those who put their faith in the Messiah both before the cross & after the cross. God did not remove the punishment for the prior sins--all are held accountable, none is righteous, no not even one--but passed them over until the final atonement was made in Christ's once for all sacrifice, who took the punishment upon Himself.
Thus God could be both Just in holding all accountable & at the same time be the Justifier of the guilty by the sacrifice of Christ's perfect life, His substitutionary death, burial & resurrection.
The word propitiation is used there as well, which is the reality of true satisfaction of God's wrath & true forgiveness of sin. The OT blood of animals simply 'covered over' the sins of the people that kept God's wrath & judgment from being unleashed under the Law which had no mercy. In Christ, God's mercy can triumph over judgment & His shed blood does bring propitiation & true forgiveness of sins.