Is Salvation not good enough?

His student said:

Therefore the Catholics mentioned in the O.P. are insinuating that the parents are not saved yet.

Click to expand...

No, they're not. You're forcing a distinctively Protestant idea into a Catholic framework where it quite simply does not fit.

chilehed said:

No, they're not. You're forcing a distinctively Protestant idea into a Catholic framework where it quite simply does not fit.

Click to expand...

I like this idea... could you please expound on how the individuals were suggesting brick and mortar choice matters, but not affronting the Cross?

Is this a discussion on Sanctification?

chevyontheriver said:

I've been told I am going to hell because I am Catholic and not Protestant. Which is a step beyond even the situation in the OP.

Click to expand...

Actually, I've been told by a Calvinist (in real life, not on-line) that unless someone is a Calvinist they're unsaved, reprobate, ect. So this sort of thing goes on even between Protestants.

dqhall said:

Jesus was not with the Catholics in the killing of John Wycliffe.

Click to expand...

John Wycliffe died form a stroke, he was not killed by Catholics.

James Murphy said:

Actually, I've been told by a Calvinist (in real life, not on-line) that unless someone is a Calvinist they're unsaved, reprobate, ect. So this sort of thing goes on even between Protestants.

Click to expand...

Ahhhh yes... the old Denominational salvation requirement. Fortunately... not all of any denomination are so narrow minded... by the grace of Christ...

The “my way or the highway” crew (within all denominations) are going to have a rude awakening.

TuxAme said:

Define "hardcore". I'm a practicing Catholic, which means that I want all to enter the narrow gate. In other words, to enter into Jesus' own Church. Is this wrong?

Click to expand...

What do you mean by Jesus one church?

James Murphy said:

Actually, I've been told by a Calvinist (in real life, not on-line) that unless someone is a Calvinist they're unsaved, reprobate, ect. So this sort of thing goes on even between Protestants.

Click to expand...

Sadly there are many who say "unless you believe what I believe/go to the church that I go to, you are not saved".
Human pride, or indoctrination by leaders, is at the root of this. It went on even in the days of the early church; "believe in Jesus? Great, now get yourself circumcised and you'll be fine."
That's why the apostles were keen to preach the Gospel and salvation through Jesus alone, Acts of the Apostles 4:12 - it's never "Jesus + .... ". Jesus didn't need our, or anyone's, help to save us.

TuxAme said:

Jesus is enough- when you hold false beliefs about Him and what He did (as protestants do), then there's a problem. Jesus taught many truths, and they have to be believed. When someone doesn't believe these things, then they need to be offered correction. It's simple.

Click to expand...

lol your funny

TuxAme said:

Consider this: what would you do if someone introduced you to their mother/father/whatever and mentioned that they were a pagan, Muslim, Zoroastrian etc.? Would you be glad for them that they had some sense of faith, or wish for them to accept the Living God into their life as fully as possible?

This is how I feel (I won't claim to speak for all Catholics any more than I would claim to speak for all Americans). I see someone as having an incomplete knowledge of God and wanting them to come into the fullest possible communion with Him that they can. In life, this can only be accomplished if you choose to enter into His Church and live as He desires. Obviously this is what I want for all. We should all desire for everyone to come to perfect friendship with our Creator.

Click to expand...

The only problem is not everyone agrees with you.

thecolorsblend said:

Quite true. My interpretation of that passage goes back to the Church's founding while yours is likely of far more recent vintage.

Click to expand...

TuxAme said:

Well, we take our faith seriously, so if that's what you mean by "hardcore Catholic", then, yes, we meet the criteria.

As for Matthew 16:18, yes, it's quite obvious that we don't share the same interpretation. This is because we understand Scripture to be a product of God through the Church, whereas protestants don't. When the "common ground" isn't so common, that leaves a lot of room for interpretation- we see where that has led Christendom.

Click to expand...

Product of God, through the church? That’s scares me? So basically I have to trust that the Catholic Church got things correct? No thanks..... and let’s be clear. I have nothing bad to say about Catholics at all. There are a couple things I don’t understand but who cares it’s not my place to understand. They are trying their best just like everyone else.

Loversofjesus_2018 said:

Product of God, through the church? That’s scares me? So basically I have to trust that the Catholic Church got things correct? No thanks.....

Click to expand...

When a Catholic sees something like you just wrote, he or she will wonder if you think the KJV just fell from the sky one day. And people picked it up and started reading the KJV in the original English and that's how faith came to the earth.

Hopefully you have a more nuanced view than that. But that kind of scares me that people might actually think such things.

chevyontheriver said:

When a Catholic sees something like you just wrote, he or she will wonder if you think the KJV just fell from the sky one day. And people picked it up and started reading the KJV in the original English and that's how faith came to the earth.

Hopefully you have a more nuanced view than that. But that kind of scares me that people might actually think such things.

Click to expand...

Huh?

KJV?

Divine right of the king stuff in there. I think the idea of KJV only individuals being the stereotype for bible based Believers in Christ should go right next to indulgence selling Churches.

That reminds me... I’ve got to go pick up an indulgence for next Tuesday!

Grip Docility said:

could you please expound on how the individuals were suggesting brick and mortar choice matters, but not affronting the Cross?

Click to expand...

That question would be better asked of someone who said such a thing. The people spoken of in the OP didn't say that, nor did I.

Grip Docility said:

Huh?

KJV?

Divine right of the king stuff in there. I think the idea of KJV only individuals being the stereotype for bible based Believers in Christ should go right next to indulgence selling Churches.

That reminds me... I’ve got to go pick up an indulgence for next Tuesday!

Click to expand...

It's only a stereotype because there are people out there, lots of them, who actually do the KJV onlyism. Did you catch what I wrote about the KJV being in the original English? I thought I was being hyperbolic enough for everyone to understand that I was being hyperbolic. I guess not. But I can recognize your hyperbole in referring to buying an indulgence.

My point was that the Bible comes to us in a historically understandable way, through the Church, which commissioned the NT books, evaluated them, put them in the canon. And it scares me when there are people who believe some unhistorical things like how the KJV dropped from heaven. Can we agree that the Bible was formed more in the first way and less in the second way?

chevyontheriver said:

through the Church

Click to expand...

Yes,through the people.

chevyontheriver said:

It's only a stereotype because there are people out there, lots of them, who actually do the KJV onlyism. Did you catch what I wrote about the KJV being in the original English? I thought I was being hyperbolic enough for everyone to understand that I was being hyperbolic. I guess not. But I can recognize your hyperbole in referring to buying an indulgence.

My point was that the Bible comes to us in a historically understandable way, through the Church, which commissioned the NT books, evaluated them, put them in the canon. And it scares me when there are people who believe some unhistorical things like how the KJV dropped from heaven. Can we agree that the Bible was formed more in the first way and less in the second way?

Click to expand...

Right... We merely have manuscripts that have been meticulously re-copied and re-copied over the Millennia... and... there are clearly some locations where some writing is missing.

The Master Texts are what it all comes from and these are in Hebrew, Latin, Greek, Aramaic (though the Aramaic is in dispute as authentic) and no other language.

Meh... Some people are spoon fed. What can a person do?

I think folks need to take a step back and honestly ask the Lord which is the true way instead of following a certain set of teachings that come from men. For I see correct teaching and wrong teaching in both Catholicism and Protestantism. Granted, when it comes to salvation, Catholics agree with me that we need works of faith (generally speaking)after we are saved by God's grace through faith (Note: But we do differ on what those works are). In fact, I also disagree with Catholics on their adding of church traditions to the Bible (that simply does not exist and is no way divine in origin like the Bible is). Many of these traditions contradict God's Word, as well (Despite their denial of such a thing).

As for Protestants:

I am afraid for many of them. Many say they are for holy living (or the Sanctification Process), but yet they contradict themselves and say that they can sin and still be saved on some level because no believer cannot spiritually die if they abide in unrepentant grievous sin. Many will mention the word "works" out of context of how Paul used it and refer to "works" as if it was some kind of dirty word. Works heresy many will say. As if doing good was wrong or something. Don't you dare lift a finger for your salvation. But did they not take action in accepting Jesus as their Savior? The Calvinist of course has a different take on this, but many Protestants believe you have free will to choose Jesus. But then after accepting Jesus, it seems like your free will is no longer (Unless you are a Free Will Baptist). In any event, the point I am trying to make is that if you do read the New Testament, please do so without a voice talking in your ear (like your Pastor), and ask the Lord to show you the truth of the Scriptures; If you were to do so, you will discover that things are not as you think (in regards to Soteriology).

Tone said:

Yes,through the people.

Click to expand...

I don't trust the people so much, because they are a lot like me, sinners and dimwits.

chevyontheriver said:

I don't trust the people so much, because they are a lot like me, sinners and dimwits.

Click to expand...

Matthew 7:11

TuxAme said:

Define "hardcore". I'm a practicing Catholic, which means that I want all to enter the narrow gate. In other words, to enter into Jesus' own Church. Is this wrong?

Click to expand...

Loversofjesus_2018 said:

What do you mean by Jesus one church?

Click to expand...