The tongue.

now faith · May 31, 2019

Oscarr said:
Sure. But the principle of those Scriptures is transcultural. If disobedient Israel had no right to tell God what to do and how to do it, neither do we.

Even though God has promised, it is through faith and patience that we inherit the promise (Hebrews 6:12). Some take hold of a promise, use positive confession and believe and believe and believe thinking that they can twist God's arm up His back by believing for what they think God has promised, and yet they forget about the patience bit.

I believe the narritive of Isaiah is complex , it speaks of the disobedience of Israel as a people in that time, as well the Prophet fortells of the Coming of Christ.
Israel suffered great afflictions due to their false God's.
Contained in this powerfull book is a sin curse for Israel, and a mighty promise of God

Presbyterian Continuist · May 31, 2019

now faith said:
I believe the narritive of Isaiah is complex , it speaks of the disobedience of Israel as a people in that time, as well the Prophet fortells of the Coming of Christ.
Israel suffered great afflictions due to their false God's.
Contained in this powerfull book is a sin curse for Israel, and a mighty promise of God

Oh. I didn't realise that I am on protected faith community thread. I know I am not really permitted to debate here. I hope all my comments are being taken as given with total respect to WOF guys on this thread.

Of course, on the general theology threads, I do tend to stir the pot a little more, because there are teachings in the WOF I don't agree with, but still it is still respectful debate and not flaming of those I disagree with.

hhodgson · Jun 2, 2019

Number of Abortions in US & Worldwide - Number of abortions since 1973

Hi John, this isn't the first time that Bro. Copeland got caught unaware by these (sneaky) reporters, and we all know they are just doing their job as they say, especially to any celebrity, (Hollywood, etc.) that they run into, or... are assigned to run into. I remember this happening back in (2014), at a convention center where this lady reporter caught him off guard and "ambushed" him and was being verbally abusive as he was walking down the hallway. She did corner him and threw several questions at him, and... being (unprepared), he didn't do well in that interview either. As he spoke to that reporter... he mentioned (three) times to her that when it comes to discussing our finances "I'm open". The reporters next response right after he said the three "I'm opens", she asked how many jets do you have? He then... (with his finger in her face) said "that's none of your business" and walked off. And, It's noticed that he said this same thing to the lady reporter just recently. If she was a supporter of his ministry... then it would be her business along with a few million others that partner with KCM.

What also gets me is... These reporters and the critics may also bring up his $6 million dollar home coupled with his own private jets and airport. Let these same reporters (or the critics) dare to follow KCM's ministry and do a little investigation on just how much the KCM ministry is impacting the poor and needy (not just) in America, but, around the entire world... in spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ. If they were to do this... they probably wouldn't report to the press anyway, because they may find out that millions around the world are receiving Christ as their Saviour [and]... also learning of their identity in Christ, in that (they) themselves don't have to live the poverty mentality that most churches still teach today.

I quoted you here John from your (Post 14)... Couldn't have said it better.---> "There is a hatred of all things in Christ today, a hatred of all that is Good. Our Nation, our Preachers, our confession of Faith is hated. God's goodness is not politically correct nor is a prosperity for America. Every thing right is being tested, and everything wrong is being promoted. We need to wake up in the Body of Christ and stand for what we know to be true. Inside edition is just another hate group in the form of media."

Blessed to be a Blessing...

Harry

...and just what is this buggy all about? Another trip to Amish country? You betcha! One of the best places on this planet for some R&R right here Holmes County, (covered with miles and miles of beautiful rolling hills) in central Ohio, and home of the largest area of Amish Settlement in the world... and just under three hours away from our home. The good news is, my woman wants to go and she said I can go along since I've been good. The downside is, It's only a few days.

SavedByGrace3 · Jun 2, 2019

Oscarr said:
Oh. I didn't realise that I am on protected faith community thread. I know I am not really permitted to debate here. I hope all my comments are being taken as given with total respect to WOF guys on this thread.

Of course, on the general theology threads, I do tend to stir the pot a little more, because there are teachings in the WOF I don't agree with, but still it is still respectful debate and not flaming of those I disagree with.

Thanks for your contributions to the forum Oscarr. You have always been a cool and even soul. I do appreciate you... as I am sure do others.

Presbyterian Continuist · Jun 2, 2019

Didaskalos said:
Thanks for your contributions to the forum Oscarr. You have always been a cool and even soul. I do appreciate you... as I am sure do others.

I have my opinions, but I try not to be contentious about them.

now faith · Jun 3, 2019

Oscarr said:
Oh. I didn't realise that I am on protected faith community thread. I know I am not really permitted to debate here. I hope all my comments are being taken as given with total respect to WOF guys on this thread.

Of course, on the general theology threads, I do tend to stir the pot a little more, because there are teachings in the WOF I don't agree with, but still it is still respectful debate and not flaming of those I disagree with.

Oscar in the years past , I have never read one of your post that was bitter or had any other agenda than helping others.
That's the difference between adversity and fellowship.
Paul and Barnabas went separate ways due to contending over Mark.
All three were commissioned by God to Preach the Gospel.
I would like to see a bridge rebuilt between the Charismatic community, and Word of Faith.

now faith · Jun 3, 2019

hhodgson said:
Number of Abortions in US & Worldwide - Number of abortions since 1973

View attachment 257558

Hi John, this isn't the first time that Bro. Copeland got caught unaware by these (sneaky) reporters, and we all know they are just doing their job as they say, especially to any celebrity, (Hollywood, etc.) that they run into, or... are assigned to run into. I remember this happening back in (2014), at a convention center where this lady reporter caught him off guard and "ambushed" him and was being verbally abusive as he was walking down the hallway. She did corner him and threw several questions at him, and... being (unprepared), he didn't do well in that interview either. As he spoke to that reporter... he mentioned (three) times to her that when it comes to discussing our finances "I'm open". The reporters next response right after he said the three "I'm opens", she asked how many jets do you have? He then... (with his finger in her face) said "that's none of your business" and walked off. And, It's noticed that he said this same thing to the lady reporter just recently. If she was a supporter of his ministry... then it would be her business along with a few million others that partner with KCM.

What also gets me is... These reporters and the critics may also bring up his $6 million dollar home coupled with his own private jets and airport. Let these same reporters (or the critics) dare to follow KCM's ministry and do a little investigation on just how much the KCM ministry is impacting the poor and needy (not just) in America, but, around the entire world... in spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ. If they were to do this... they probably wouldn't report to the press anyway, because they may find out that millions around the world are receiving Christ as their Saviour [and]... also learning of their identity in Christ, in that (they) themselves don't have to live the poverty mentality that most churches still teach today.

I quoted you here John from your (Post 14)... Couldn't have said it better.---> "There is a hatred of all things in Christ today, a hatred of all that is Good. Our Nation, our Preachers, our confession of Faith is hated. God's goodness is not politically correct nor is a prosperity for America. Every thing right is being tested, and everything wrong is being promoted. We need to wake up in the Body of Christ and stand for what we know to be true. Inside edition is just another hate group in the form of media."

Blessed to be a Blessing...

Harry

View attachment 257564
...and just what is this buggy all about? Another trip to Amish country? You betcha! One of the best places on this planet for some R&R right here Holmes County, (covered with miles and miles of beautiful rolling hills) in central Ohio, and home of the largest area of Amish Settlement in the world... and just under three hours away from our home. The good news is, my woman wants to go and she said I can go along since I've been good. The downside is, It's only a few days.

View attachment 257557

God Bless you Sir, we need unity but not universalism .
Unity in the Body of Christ , to stand against all of our enemies of darkness.
The power is manifested I believe mainly through full Gospel believers.
The Holy Spirit is not quenched or limited among us, the battle ahead requires power from above not endless theology and legalism, or ceremony.

Presbyterian Continuist · Jun 3, 2019

now faith said:
Oscar in the years past , I have never read one of your post that was bitter or had any other agenda than helping others.
That's the difference between adversity and fellowship.
Paul and Barnabas went separate ways due to contending over Mark.
All three were commissioned by God to Preach the Gospel.
I would like to see a bridge rebuilt between the Charismatic community, and Word of Faith.

I think the Word of Faith works if faith is directed to God for Him to honour His promises found in His written word. We can confess those promises to God, saying, "I am depending on this promise, and I am waiting on You fulfill it."

I think the problems come when Positive confession is used as a means in itself to achieve the outcome. Most of what E W Kenyon taught was good, because he had discovered that God was able to perform what He had promised. But he did make some errors in doctrine in that he believed that Jesus was tormented in hell as part of our Atonement, which does not line up with Scripture, because He said to the penitent thief, "Today, you will be with Me in Paradise", so that's where Jesus went after He died. Jesus actually defeated Satan on the cross when He shed His blood. Where He got the keys of death and of hell from Satan, I don't know, but He had them when He rose from the dead.

Also, I don't believe the popular doctrine that we are "gods". This is the deception of Eve, that if she ate of the forbidden tree, she would be "as God". This is what the Psalmist referred to, which Jesus quote sarcastically to the Pharisees. He said because of Israel's disobedience they had become little gods to themselves instead of holding to the Living God. Jesus made the same point, inferring that the Pharisees were doing the same, being little gods in their interpretation of the Law and their rejection of the real Messiah.

Also, there is only one Person who speaks things into existence and that is God Himself. We are made in the image of God, but He never created us to be godlike ourselves with the same authority and power that God has.

These are the ideas and "revelations" that have corrupted the Word of Faith movement.

now faith · Jun 3, 2019

Like any other Faith group, or denomation for that matter there is a diverse range of of teaching under the same umbrella.
You could say the same for Pentecostal churches, Baptist, or Charismatic's.
Most Word of Faith people I know, do not believe in the Christ being tormented in Hell teaching.
I do not subscribe to it because it's not found in the Bible.
Because Jesus knew no Sin, He took the sin of the world by his will.
God with us.
He preached to those in the days of Noah, while He was below.
That is all you will find, it is in the book of Peter.
He could not be touched upon leaving the tomb ,not until He sprinkled His precious Blood on the Mercy seat of God the Father.
He pinned death He'll and the grave on that old cross bless God for all of us.
Not all Word of Faith follow one Man, as for me I love good Preaching , and teaching so I have many I listen too.
Kenneth Hagin, R.W Shambock Andrew Wommack and Jessie Duplanits to name a few.
Kenneth Copeland has a lifetime of ministry and has done much toward spreading the Gospel of Victory in Christ Jesus.
He has a way of saying things that can be out there on first glance.
I do not think He teaches we are on the level of God , more on the promise of Galations being Sons of God.

now faith · Jun 3, 2019

hhodgson said:
Number of Abortions in US & Worldwide - Number of abortions since 1973

View attachment 257558

Hi John, this isn't the first time that Bro. Copeland got caught unaware by these (sneaky) reporters, and we all know they are just doing their job as they say, especially to any celebrity, (Hollywood, etc.) that they run into, or... are assigned to run into. I remember this happening back in (2014), at a convention center where this lady reporter caught him off guard and "ambushed" him and was being verbally abusive as he was walking down the hallway. She did corner him and threw several questions at him, and... being (unprepared), he didn't do well in that interview either. As he spoke to that reporter... he mentioned (three) times to her that when it comes to discussing our finances "I'm open". The reporters next response right after he said the three "I'm opens", she asked how many jets do you have? He then... (with his finger in her face) said "that's none of your business" and walked off. And, It's noticed that he said this same thing to the lady reporter just recently. If she was a supporter of his ministry... then it would be her business along with a few million others that partner with KCM.

What also gets me is... These reporters and the critics may also bring up his $6 million dollar home coupled with his own private jets and airport. Let these same reporters (or the critics) dare to follow KCM's ministry and do a little investigation on just how much the KCM ministry is impacting the poor and needy (not just) in America, but, around the entire world... in spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ. If they were to do this... they probably wouldn't report to the press anyway, because they may find out that millions around the world are receiving Christ as their Saviour [and]... also learning of their identity in Christ, in that (they) themselves don't have to live the poverty mentality that most churches still teach today.

I quoted you here John from your (Post 14)... Couldn't have said it better.---> "There is a hatred of all things in Christ today, a hatred of all that is Good. Our Nation, our Preachers, our confession of Faith is hated. God's goodness is not politically correct nor is a prosperity for America. Every thing right is being tested, and everything wrong is being promoted. We need to wake up in the Body of Christ and stand for what we know to be true. Inside edition is just another hate group in the form of media."

Blessed to be a Blessing...

Harry

View attachment 257564
...and just what is this buggy all about? Another trip to Amish country? You betcha! One of the best places on this planet for some R&R right here Holmes County, (covered with miles and miles of beautiful rolling hills) in central Ohio, and home of the largest area of Amish Settlement in the world... and just under three hours away from our home. The good news is, my woman wants to go and she said I can go along since I've been good. The downside is, It's only a few days.

View attachment 257557

The critics mention his eyes lol I hope my eyes are good enough to fly a jet at His age!

Presbyterian Continuist · Jun 3, 2019

now faith said:
Like any other Faith group, or denomation for that matter there is a diverse range of of teaching under the same umbrella.
You could say the same for Pentecostal churches, Baptist, or Charismatic's.
Most Word of Faith people I know, do not believe in the Christ being tormented in Hell teaching.
I do not subscribe to it because it's not found in the Bible.
Because Jesus knew no Sin, He took the sin of the world by his will.
God with us.
He preached to those in the days of Noah, while He was below.
That is all you will find, it is in the book of Peter.
He could not be touched upon leaving the tomb ,not until He sprinkled His precious Blood on the Mercy seat of God the Father.
He pinned death He'll and the grave on that old cross bless God for all of us.
Not all Word of Faith follow one Man, as for me I love good Preaching , and teaching so I have many I listen too.
Kenneth Hagin, R.W Shambock Andrew Wommack and Jessie Duplanits to name a few.
Kenneth Copeland has a lifetime of ministry and has done much toward spreading the Gospel of Victory in Christ Jesus.
He has a way of saying things that can be out there on first glance.
I do not think He teaches we are on the level of God , more on the promise of Galations being Sons of God.

You are correct. I was converted in an AOG church, and spent 12 years in Pentecostal and Charismatic churches before I decided to branch out to see how the other half lived. I found that after 12 years, I had learned everything there was to learn in that movement, and so I wanted more. I started part time theology study for a couple of years which I enjoyed, and then got sidetracked into a B.A. and an M.A. in English literature. I gained some great writing skills out of that study and enjoyed the journey. In my mid-60s I launched into a M.Div with an on-line Bible college (non-Charismatic although very tolerant) and after three years I completed. That was a wonderful journey for me as well, and I wrote essays that I would have preached in Charismatic church and got very high marks every time. So God is good, and He opens doors in places and I don't have to compromise my Pentecostal theology to go through them.

So, I have been there and done that as far as the whole gambit of Charismatic practice. I love E W Kenyon and when I gave away many books because I needed to clean up my library, I kept his books because I enjoy reading them and they build up my faith. My academic success was due to me deciding to take chances using the confident part of me instead of the fearful part. I don't think I used mind-control. I just trusted God and stepped out in faith believing that if this was His will for me He would give me the skills and the ability to learn and succeed, which He did. When I asked Him, What shall I do with all this learning?" He said, in a way, "Write ministry books", and I found when I did, the words flowed out along with the supporting Scriptures, and that was a real blessing and an accomplishment.

I have been a rowdy, shouting Pentecostal, speaking in tongues, giving prophecies, laying hands on sick people, and then having a personal encounter with God in the middle of a park in the dead of night. I never saw anything, but God became real to me and has been ever since.

I have seen the falling down, shaking, have had uproarious laughing times with my Christian mates while worshiping God, been in meetings where the glory of God has come down and people getting right with God, hearing my pastor telling a story about a black entity coming through his bedroom door and getting him around his throat to choke him to death (when I went to bed that night I kept one eye on the door all night!). But then his ministry involved working with the indigenous Maori people and their "religion" was quite demonic and he and his wife regularly cast demons out of people in those environments so it was no surprise that the devil hated him and tried to kill him.

I have struggled for years as to why people don't get healed, and that we don't see as many signs and wonders as we should, but I get back in my spirit that it is the church that is its worst enemy and that we should just concentrate on preaching the real gospel of Christ and not over-emphasise signs and wonders, or sensory experience - because if we are looking for them the devil is always around to give them to us.

So, I am a Charismatic and not ashamed of it in any way. In my associations with Anglican, Baptist and Presbyterian church, I have never made a secret of it, and the others there have always made me feel welcome. At one stage I offered my services to the minister to talk to any lunatic fringe folk who came into the church to try and force people to become Charismatic.

I guess up until now I have been somewhat blind to the enormity of the deception that is invading the Charismatic and Pentecostal movement. It really worries me and I fear for the future of the movement and the multitudes of the people who are being deceived and they don't know it.

hhodgson · Jun 3, 2019

Oscarr said:
Everything we have is what we have received from God. Some have received more, some less. But we have no right to have received anything but an eternity in hell. So to have food to eat, clothes to wear, and a roof over our heads is all from the grace and mercy of God.

Hi Oscarr, I definitely agree with Nowfaith in the excellent witness you have presented to this CF Form. I also appreciate your presence on this forum. In our new created spirit that God gave us, I believe that in our new created spirit that we are all united in Christ. We were all given the same spirit that Jesus has but most of us don't know that. I think it's time for the body of Christ to really (fully realize) and get to know who Jesus is and what His full atonement means to us as new covenant believers.

We are created and transformed in His image. Once the Church fully realize who Christ is then we (as His Body) can fully realize who we are in Him. You are absolutely correct in your comment highlighted above. I use to say that all the time that we are not worthy, and we deserve to go to hell. I have learned that this kind of thinking was for our old nature within us. But, today our old nature died (at our new birth) and now God gave us a new nature or a new spirit. I'll even go farther in that I believe that we have received God's perfect nature that cannot be corrupted and will remain within us for all eternity.

I believe that (in Him) we are the righteousness of Christ (not of ourselves) but we were made righteous and I believe that we are not unworthy worms anymore. Our unworthiness and unrighteousness was in our old nature. This all changed when we become born of God (born-again) and in our new spirit is forever perfected and made we were3 made worthy and righteous in Him.

With that said... Now that we have Christ in us, were are also in Christ. The fullness of the Godhead is in our new created spirit. I believe that since we have been transformed into His image and with His new nature that we have been given new names in heaven. Does that make any sense? My earthly name is Harold and will remain that until Jesus comes back but Harold's old nature (spirit) died and was crucified and buried with Him and the new Harold was raised up and was resurrected with Him and in him I am justified and worthy to enter into His presence and to spend eternity with Him.

We have a new spirit (God's nature) and our soul (mind, will, and emotions) and body did not change but they are in the process of being changed as we daily and continually renew our minds with His Word. I believe our fleshly bodies can receive healing by realizing and believing the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross. All the blessings from God can be received by His Grace through our faith.

My time is short as I am writing this fast since we're heading out to Amish country as I said in my previous post last night. As I read your thoughts (Post 6) and knowing just who I am In Christ that by being born of God that that makes us worthy to boldly come before Him without any unworthiness. With that in mind, I believe that we are worthy to receive every blessing that God has made for us through Christ's atonement. All we need to do is "ask" and believe that He has everything for us [and] that everything that we ever need (in this life) and even things that we haven't even thought of has already been done which is ours by grace through faith.

Thank you (Oscarr) for being our friend in the Word/faith forum. Gotta go, and I'm sure when I return in a few days that there will be some comments to my post. It will give all of you something to think about for sure. Just stirring the pot a little...

Blessed to be a Blessing...

Harry

Presbyterian Continuist · Jun 3, 2019

hhodgson said:
Hi Oscarr, I definitely agree with Nowfaith in the excellent witness you have presented to this CF Form. I also appreciate your presence on this forum. In our new created spirit that God gave us, I believe that in our new created spirit that we are all united in Christ. We were all given the same spirit that Jesus has but most of us don't know that. I think it's time for the body of Christ to really (fully realize) and get to know who Jesus is and what His full atonement means to us as new covenant believers.

We are created and transformed in His image. Once the Church fully realize who Christ is then we (as His Body) can fully realize who we are in Him. You are absolutely correct in your comment highlighted above. I use to say that all the time that we are not worthy, and we deserve to go to hell. I have learned that this kind of thinking was for our old nature within us. But, today our old nature died (at our new birth) and now God gave us a new nature or a new spirit. I'll even go farther in that I believe that we have received God's perfect nature that cannot be corrupted and will remain within us for all eternity.

I believe that (in Him) we are the righteousness of Christ (not of ourselves) but we were made righteous and I believe that we are not unworthy worms anymore. Our unworthiness and unrighteousness was in our old nature. This all changed when we become born of God (born-again) and in our new spirit is forever perfected and made we were3 made worthy and righteous in Him.

With that said... Now that we have Christ in us, were are also in Christ. The fullness of the Godhead is in our new created spirit. I believe that since we have been transformed into His image and with His new nature that we have been given new names in heaven. Does that make any sense? My earthly name is Harold and will remain that until Jesus comes back but Harold's old nature (spirit) died and was crucified and buried with Him and the new Harold was raised up and was resurrected with Him and in him I am justified and worthy to enter into His presence and to spend eternity with Him.

We have a new spirit (God's nature) and our soul (mind, will, and emotions) and body did not change but they are in the process of being changed as we daily and continually renew our minds with His Word. I believe our fleshly bodies can receive healing by realizing and believing the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross. All the blessings from God can be received by His Grace through our faith.

My time is short as I am writing this fast since we're heading out to Amish country as I said in my previous post last night. As I read your thoughts (Post 6) and knowing just who I am In Christ that by being born of God that that makes us worthy to boldly come before Him without any unworthiness. With that in mind, I believe that we are worthy to receive every blessing that God has made for us through Christ's atonement. All we need to do is "ask" and believe that He has everything for us [and] that everything that we ever need (in this life) and even things that we haven't even thought of has already been done which is ours by grace through faith.

Thank you (Oscarr) for being our friend in the Word/faith forum. Gotta go, and I'm sure when I return in a few days that there will be some comments to my post. It will give all of you something to think about for sure. Just stirring the pot a little...

Blessed to be a Blessing...

Harry

View attachment 257603

You are correct. We have been transformed and taken out of the kingdom of darkness and are new creatures in Christ. The point that I made is that if the gospel is going to be faithfully preached to sinners, the certainty of deserving of and going to hell has to be clearly presented to them. They need to know where they are going if they reject the gospel. The trouble is that many preach a lovey dovey gospel because they are afraid of putting people off it they talk about hell as being the future if they don't turn to Christ. As a result, we have churches full of people who have a watered-down gospel, or even no gospel at all, and when problems and persecution arise, they walk away, back into the world.

But for us who are genuinely converted, we know that we are heaven bound, and that is the joy and blessing that we have.

now faith · Jun 5, 2019

hhodgson said:
Hi Oscarr, I definitely agree with Nowfaith in the excellent witness you have presented to this CF Form. I also appreciate your presence on this forum. In our new created spirit that God gave us, I believe that in our new created spirit that we are all united in Christ. We were all given the same spirit that Jesus has but most of us don't know that. I think it's time for the body of Christ to really (fully realize) and get to know who Jesus is and what His full atonement means to us as new covenant believers.

We are created and transformed in His image. Once the Church fully realize who Christ is then we (as His Body) can fully realize who we are in Him. You are absolutely correct in your comment highlighted above. I use to say that all the time that we are not worthy, and we deserve to go to hell. I have learned that this kind of thinking was for our old nature within us. But, today our old nature died (at our new birth) and now God gave us a new nature or a new spirit. I'll even go farther in that I believe that we have received God's perfect nature that cannot be corrupted and will remain within us for all eternity.

I believe that (in Him) we are the righteousness of Christ (not of ourselves) but we were made righteous and I believe that we are not unworthy worms anymore. Our unworthiness and unrighteousness was in our old nature. This all changed when we become born of God (born-again) and in our new spirit is forever perfected and made we were3 made worthy and righteous in Him.

With that said... Now that we have Christ in us, were are also in Christ. The fullness of the Godhead is in our new created spirit. I believe that since we have been transformed into His image and with His new nature that we have been given new names in heaven. Does that make any sense? My earthly name is Harold and will remain that until Jesus comes back but Harold's old nature (spirit) died and was crucified and buried with Him and the new Harold was raised up and was resurrected with Him and in him I am justified and worthy to enter into His presence and to spend eternity with Him.

We have a new spirit (God's nature) and our soul (mind, will, and emotions) and body did not change but they are in the process of being changed as we daily and continually renew our minds with His Word. I believe our fleshly bodies can receive healing by realizing and believing the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross. All the blessings from God can be received by His Grace through our faith.

My time is short as I am writing this fast since we're heading out to Amish country as I said in my previous post last night. As I read your thoughts (Post 6) and knowing just who I am In Christ that by being born of God that that makes us worthy to boldly come before Him without any unworthiness. With that in mind, I believe that we are worthy to receive every blessing that God has made for us through Christ's atonement. All we need to do is "ask" and believe that He has everything for us [and] that everything that we ever need (in this life) and even things that we haven't even thought of has already been done which is ours by grace through faith.

Thank you (Oscarr) for being our friend in the Word/faith forum. Gotta go, and I'm sure when I return in a few days that there will be some comments to my post. It will give all of you something to think about for sure. Just stirring the pot a little...

Blessed to be a Blessing...

Harry

View attachment 257603

Enjoy your rest , and the food too
God Bless you my friend.

now faith · Jun 5, 2019

Oscarr said:
You are correct. I was converted in an AOG church, and spent 12 years in Pentecostal and Charismatic churches before I decided to branch out to see how the other half lived. I found that after 12 years, I had learned everything there was to learn in that movement, and so I wanted more. I started part time theology study for a couple of years which I enjoyed, and then got sidetracked into a B.A. and an M.A. in English literature. I gained some great writing skills out of that study and enjoyed the journey. In my mid-60s I launched into a M.Div with an on-line Bible college (non-Charismatic although very tolerant) and after three years I completed. That was a wonderful journey for me as well, and I wrote essays that I would have preached in Charismatic church and got very high marks every time. So God is good, and He opens doors in places and I don't have to compromise my Pentecostal theology to go through them.

So, I have been there and done that as far as the whole gambit of Charismatic practice. I love E W Kenyon and when I gave away many books because I needed to clean up my library, I kept his books because I enjoy reading them and they build up my faith. My academic success was due to me deciding to take chances using the confident part of me instead of the fearful part. I don't think I used mind-control. I just trusted God and stepped out in faith believing that if this was His will for me He would give me the skills and the ability to learn and succeed, which He did. When I asked Him, What shall I do with all this learning?" He said, in a way, "Write ministry books", and I found when I did, the words flowed out along with the supporting Scriptures, and that was a real blessing and an accomplishment.

I have been a rowdy, shouting Pentecostal, speaking in tongues, giving prophecies, laying hands on sick people, and then having a personal encounter with God in the middle of a park in the dead of night. I never saw anything, but God became real to me and has been ever since.

I have seen the falling down, shaking, have had uproarious laughing times with my Christian mates while worshiping God, been in meetings where the glory of God has come down and people getting right with God, hearing my pastor telling a story about a black entity coming through his bedroom door and getting him around his throat to choke him to death (when I went to bed that night I kept one eye on the door all night!). But then his ministry involved working with the indigenous Maori people and their "religion" was quite demonic and he and his wife regularly cast demons out of people in those environments so it was no surprise that the devil hated him and tried to kill him.

I have struggled for years as to why people don't get healed, and that we don't see as many signs and wonders as we should, but I get back in my spirit that it is the church that is its worst enemy and that we should just concentrate on preaching the real gospel of Christ and not over-emphasise signs and wonders, or sensory experience - because if we are looking for them the devil is always around to give them to us.

So, I am a Charismatic and not ashamed of it in any way. In my associations with Anglican, Baptist and Presbyterian church, I have never made a secret of it, and the others there have always made me feel welcome. At one stage I offered my services to the minister to talk to any lunatic fringe folk who came into the church to try and force people to become Charismatic.

I guess up until now I have been somewhat blind to the enormity of the deception that is invading the Charismatic and Pentecostal movement. It really worries me and I fear for the future of the movement and the multitudes of the people who are being deceived and they don't know it.

The majority of denomations are falling away, it is one thing to have a doctrine but Church groups are allowing legalism and dogmatism to prevail in their Churches.
As a whole we are trying to destroy each other.
The tongue rather than The Word is sharp to condemn and demonize others.
I believe there is pouring out of spiritual delusion on Christianity like never before.
I see such a lack of diserning among Christians as well.
For all I know I could be just as wrong.
I have seen strangers walk into Churches and suddenly be put on a pedestal.
All I can do is wonder what is happening?
Reformed Pastors telling people to take the mark of the Beast.
The Pope making proclamations with Islam.
Christians supporting pro Choice.
As far as the true Baptism of the Holy Spirit, it has been quenched again.
At least in America,.

Satan has fought to quench our knowing the truth of who we are in the Body of Christ.
If it is not a total denial of the power, then some are making a outragous show of the Holy Spirit.
So much bitterness is brought against Charismatic and Pentecostal Churches
And your going to need a chair to hear the critics on Word of Faith.
All a defeated foe can use is Psychology to steal our authority.
Satan is the king of manipulation and Pride.

now faith · Jun 5, 2019

Oscar, your testimony is a example of God qualifying the called.
You moved on when you were moved up, and your education was
Nessary to continue in your journey.
All of us need to have ears to hear their calling, yet God does not reveal the entire reason for what your called to do.
It is a process of growth that lasts a lifetime.
Promotion always brings a valley in our life.
I believe it parallels the parable of the sower, that Christ told us about.
All of us are some 30 some sixty some hundred fold in their walk with God.
If we stumble it's not the end, we just grab hold of more seed.

hhodgson · Sep 13, 2019

SavedByGrace3 said:
I disagree. Everything is covered by the atonement. This idea is expressed over and over in the NT. He did not leave anything out. If we can pray for a thing in the name of Jesus... it is because it is covered in the atonement. God made Jesus Lord and Christ.. and everything that is received by believers is based on the atonement. None of this is any longer based on "new" mercy... it is based on the mercy that was executed at the cross and which now is justice, and His faithfulness to execute that justice.

Awesome... We ain't seen nothing yet to be compared to what God has already done. We are His sons and daughters waiting (in faith) to be manifested in all things as Jesus did... and more.

hhodgson · Sep 13, 2019

Oscarr said:
Everything we have is what we have received from God. Some have received more, some less. But we have no right to have received anything but an eternity in hell. So to have food to eat, clothes to wear, and a roof over our heads is all from the grace and mercy of God.

Within ourselves (the old man)... that is correct, but because of what Christ has done in our place... our OLD nature was crucified and died, (with Him) on the cross, and with our NEW nature, were raised up (with Him) seated together for eternity. Our new born-again spirit is identical to Jesus with the nature of God. With that in mind we are no longer worms as some would still say.
I think you would agree with this. Just my thoughts...

Harry

Si_monfaith · Sep 15, 2019

SavedByGrace3 said:
Everything is covered by the atonement

2 Cor 8:2:"for during a severe ordeal of affliction, their abundant joy and their extreme poverty have overflowed in a wealth of generosity on their part".
In light of the above verse are everyone covered in the atonement?

Isn't the Lord sovereign to grant to some and deny to others according to Mathew 20:15?

Presbyterian Continuist · Sep 15, 2019

Si_monfaith said:
2 Cor 8:2:"for during a severe ordeal of affliction, their abundant joy and their extreme poverty have overflowed in a wealth of generosity on their part".
In light of the above verse are everyone covered in the atonement?

Isn't the Lord sovereign to grant to some and deny to others according to Mathew 20:15?

Everything that we need to get us out of hell and into heaven is covered by the atonement, otherwise it is not a total atonement for our sins and Jesus is not a complete Saviour.

The verse you have quoted puts a big spanner into the works of those who believe in guaranteed health and healing, and prosperity, because the Corinthians were seriously afflicted and were in extreme poverty, but were joyful in the Lord, and generous to the saints in other areas. Jesus said that in the world we will have tribulation, but because He has overcome the world, even though we are afflicted with problems, sickness and poverty, we can have peace and joy through our faith in Christ.

The tongue.

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