God changes His mind.

Grip Docility said:

Dave...

You're disagreeing with your own Creed!!!!

We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach men to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [co-essential] with the Father according to the Godhead, and consubstantial with us according to the Manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably;

the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person and one Subsistence,



not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ; as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning Him, and the Lord Jesus Christ Himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us

Click to expand...

I'm in full agreement saying Christ had a fully human nature and a fully divine nature. With one person the eternal Son of God.

Dave L said:

The eternal Son Jesus (the Spirit in the man Jesus) did not die. The man Jesus consisting of body, soul without a human spirit, died on the cross.

Click to expand...

That's Nestorianism, at best.

There is one Person, Jesus Christ, the Eternal Son and Word of the Father, fully God and fully man. That Person suffered, was crucified, died, was buried, descended into hell, rose on the third day, ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father from whence He will come again to judge the living and the dead.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

That's Nestorianism, at best.

There is one Person, Jesus Christ, the Eternal Son and Word of the Father, fully God and fully man. That Person suffered, was crucified, died, was buried, descended into hell, rose on the third day, ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father from whence He will come again to judge the living and the dead.

-CryptoLutheran

Click to expand...

As for how the divine and human elements come together, Chalcedon marks out the right and the left with its four mighty negatives: no confusion and no change on the one hand (contra Monophysitism Eutychianism ), but no division and no separation on the other hand (contra Nestorianism).

one person two natures

Dave L said:

As for how the divine and human elements come together, Chalcedon marks out the right and the left with its four mighty negatives: no confusion and no change on the one hand (contra Monophysitism Eutychianism ), but no division and no separation on the other hand (contra Nestorianism).

one person two natures

Click to expand...

Right. One Hypostasis and Prosopon, and two physes, natures. It was that one Hypostasis and Prosopon, Jesus Christ, that was crucified.

-CryptoLutheran

visionary said:

Same law.. love and written in stone, now written in heart.

Some things never change and this is one of them.

Click to expand...

i got on a soap box for a bit ....

Dave L said:

I'm in full agreement saying Christ had a fully human nature and a fully divine nature. With one person the eternal Son of God.

Click to expand...

ViaCrucis said:

That's Nestorianism, at best.

There is one Person, Jesus Christ, the Eternal Son and Word of the Father, fully God and fully man. That Person suffered, was crucified, died, was buried, descended into hell, rose on the third day, ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father from whence He will come again to judge the living and the dead.

-CryptoLutheran

Click to expand...

ViaCrucis said:

Right. One Hypostasis and Prosopon, and two physes, natures. It was that one Hypostasis and Prosopon, Jesus Christ, that was crucified.

-CryptoLutheran

Click to expand...

Dave,

You have agreed with CryptoLutheran.

You have agreed that the one Hypostasis and Prosopon was Crucified, Executed, Murdered, Slain.

Hypostasis

(in Trinitarian doctrine) each of the three persons of the Trinity, as contrasted with the unity of the Godhead.

• the single person of Christ, as contrasted with his dual human and divine nature

Prosopon

Theology. Any one of the three Persons of the Trinity, especially regarded in terms of outward appearance or manifestation.

...............
We are at peace on the discussion now.

The reason I flip whenever people say God didn’t die on the cross, is because that is to say... In terms of John 3:16, that God’s only begotten Son... which immediately refers to The Son Of God.... Who was Given (Gave)(Reference to Coming Crucifixion) ... was not Given(Gave).

We know the Hypostasis is genuine and not a doctrine of man because it binds scriptures usage of (God the Son/Son of God) with (God the Man/Son of Man) because Jesus’ Father is God and His Mother is Israel (Mary).

Israel was sanctified, in Genetic lineage, by God to prepare the way of His Eternal/Infinite Uncreated Son to Incarnate.

The Person Of Jesus Christ is singularly bound to the Prosopon and the Hypostasis.

The reason the Doctrine of the Trinity exists is to not only reveal the complexity of God, but to show how God the Son... Not God the Father, ... Died on the Cross.

It is a deep heresy to suggest otherwise because it messes the Doctrine Of Propitiation, Justification, Sanctification And Atonement... up... to Divide the Person Of Jesus Christ at any point... and especially on the cross.

The reason for this, is because it opens the door for doctrines like (Adoption / or Human Condescension).

Doctrines such as those... express that God didn’t Empty Himself (As Philippians 2 teaches God did Empty Himself ... “Condescension”)... and thusly, Mankind is called to Carnal Perfection, here on earth, before Death.

This type of doctrine negates God’s Complete Salvic Work.

Theologians of mass informational sites... even some places on Carm... suggest God the Son, was not Crucified... I’ve researched this and it makes me Livid!

The One, Unified Son Of God/Son of Man (Hypostasis) indeed went to the cross.... Unified by God embracing Man... NOT Man embracing God. (Spiritual Revelation Of the Incarnation that Scripture reveals to Confirm the truth of the Hypostasis).

If the doctrine eradicates that God (God the Son) died for mankind... it is leaving the burden of Salvation on the Flesh Of Man. It is also rewriting John 3:16 and 1 John 2:2.

John 3:16 would then read... For the Man that was not God, so loved the world, that He righteously clung to God, that whosoever clings to God as he did, shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

God the Son forfeited His Divine will to God the Father... on the Mount of Olives. If we were to say, the Man, that wasn’t God, forfeited his will to God the Father, we would again be placing the burden of Carnal Perfection upon mankind.

The Protoevangilum promises that the serpent would strike the Heal of God... but the Heal Of God would Crush the serpents Head.

Men do not and cannot “Crush the Serpents Head”. To say otherwise would be to say that Adam (First) willingly partook of Death (Which he did) and in doing so, (Crushed the Serpents Head)... but 1 Corinthians 15 shows us that only Adam (Second) could “Crush the serpent’s Head”.

This is why (1 Corinthians 15:54-57 + Hebrews 2:14) are two of the most important passages of scripture to bind together as they reveal this Trinitarian Truth without refrain and explain what the Protoevangilim meant.

All Love in Jesus Christ to you.

Grip Docility said:

Dave,

You have agreed with CryptoLutheran.

You have agreed that the one Hypostasis and Prosopon was Crucified, Executed, Murdered, Slain.

Hypostasis

(in Trinitarian doctrine) each of the three persons of the Trinity, as contrasted with the unity of the Godhead.

• the single person of Christ, as contrasted with his dual human and divine nature

Prosopon

Theology. Any one of the three Persons of the Trinity, especially regarded in terms of outward appearance or manifestation.

...............
We are at peace on the discussion now.

The reason I flip whenever people say God didn’t die on the cross, is because that is to say... In terms of John 3:16, that God’s only begotten Son... which immediately refers to The Son Of God.... Who was Given (Gave)(Reference to Coming Crucifixion) ... was not Given(Gave).

We know the Hypostasis is genuine and not a doctrine of man because it binds scriptures usage of (God the Son/Son of God) with (God the Man/Son of Man) because Jesus’ Father is God and His Mother is Israel (Mary).

Israel was sanctified, in Genetic lineage, by God to prepare the way of His Eternal/Infinite Uncreated Son to Incarnate.

The Person Of Jesus Christ is singularly bound to the Prosopon and the Hypostasis.

The reason the Doctrine of the Trinity exists is to not only reveal the complexity of God, but to show how God the Son... Not God the Father, ... Died on the Cross.

It is a deep heresy to suggest otherwise because it messes the Doctrine Of Propitiation, Justification, Sanctification And Atonement... up... to Divide the Person Of Jesus Christ at any point... and especially on the cross.

The reason for this, is because it opens the door for doctrines like (Adoption / or Human Condescension).

Doctrines such as those... express that God didn’t Empty Himself (As Philippians 2 teaches God did Empty Himself ... “Condescension”)... and thusly, Mankind is called to Carnal Perfection, here on earth, before Death.

This type of doctrine negates God’s Complete Salvic Work.

Theologians of mass informational sites... even some places on Carm... suggest God the Son, was not Crucified... I’ve researched this and it makes me Livid!

The One, Unified Son Of God/Son of Man (Hypostasis) indeed went to the cross.... Unified by God embracing Man... NOT Man embracing God. (Spiritual Revelation Of the Incarnation that Scripture reveals to Confirm the truth of the Hypostasis).

If the doctrine eradicates that God (God the Son) died for mankind... it is leaving the burden of Salvation on the Flesh Of Man. It is also rewriting John 3:16 and 1 John 2:2.

John 3:16 would then read... For the Man that was not God, so loved the world, that He righteously clung to God, that whosoever clings to God as he did, shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

God the Son forfeited His Divine will to God the Father... on the Mount of Olives. If we were to say, the Man, that wasn’t God, forfeited his will to God the Father, we would again be placing the burden of Carnal Perfection upon mankind.

The Protoevangilum promises that the serpent would strike the Heal of God... but the Heal Of God would Crush the serpents Head.

Men do not and cannot “Crush the Serpents Head”. To say otherwise would be to say that Adam (First) willingly partook of Death (Which he did) and in doing so, (Crushed the Serpents Head)... but 1 Corinthians 15 shows us that only Adam (Second) could “Crush the serpent’s Head”.

This is why (1 Corinthians 15:54-57 + Hebrews 2:14) are two of the most important passages of scripture to bind together as they reveal this Trinitarian Truth without refrain and explain what the Protoevangilim meant.

All Love in Jesus Christ to you.

Click to expand...

I possibly misunderstood his position. But I placed a safe guard saying Christ has a fully human nature and a fully divine nature with one person = the eternal Son of the triune God.

Dave L said:

I possibly misunderstood his position. But I placed a safe guard saying Christ has a fully human nature and a fully divine nature with one person = the eternal Son of the triune God.

Click to expand...

Well, the post you just quoted will be my last on this matter as I Love you, in Jesus and know you nor I desire to quarrel.

All Love in Jesus to you.

Carl Emerson said:

I am keen to hear comment on this topic and how it might shape our perception of Him.

Some scripture seems to suggest God never does this. Others record Him relenting His intent.

Can we bring clarity to this topic please.

Click to expand...

With Alôhâyîm, make no mistake, His will shall be done, what was not manifest in the past is made manifest in the present, and that which has yet to manifest in the present, will be made manifest in the future.


When Alôhâyîm brought the children of Îsʰraəl out of bondage and carried them on the Wings of a great Eagle, and brought them to a Great Mountain Burning with Fire, to speak with them face to face at His Heavenly abode, according to the song of Merriam they were all supposed to enter the Mountain, but when the trumpet sounded Long, the children of Îsʰraəl back pedaled in fear.

If they would have entered the Mountain at that moment the earth would have been destroyed by fire, and when they would have exited the Mountainous abode of Alôhâyîm they would have found themselves walking upon the ashes of many, this prophecy has not been done away with, just postponed. ❤

Carl Emerson said:

I am keen to hear comment on this topic and how it might shape our perception of Him.

Some scripture seems to suggest God never does this. Others record Him relenting His intent.

Can we bring clarity to this topic please.

Click to expand...

While Scripture shows God seemingly changing His mind, the important fact is that Scripture also says His will cannot be thwarted.
I believe a God who shows Himself to change His mind in response to man pleading with Him to do so is to illustrate plainly the power and efficacy of prayer.
If you are referring to his lament of having made mankind before God sends the flood, I have no certain answer but that in someways it reveals to us our freewill. Scripture clearly shows God as omnipotent and omniscient and knows the end from the beginning...so these are co-existing facts and I believe the controlling factors. I have some idea that God is conveying to us His loving and caring nature and that He shares some emotions with us...a personal Savior.

throughfireytrial said:

While Scripture shows God seemingly changing His mind, the important fact is that Scripture also says His will cannot be thwarted.
I believe a God who shows Himself to change His mind in response to man pleading with Him to do so is to illustrate plainly the power and efficacy of prayer.
If you are referring to his lament of having made mankind before God sends the flood, I have no certain answer but that in someways it reveals to us our freewill. Scripture clearly shows God as omnipotent and omniscient and knows the end from the beginning...so these are co-existing facts and I believe the controlling factors. I have some idea that God is conveying to us His loving and caring nature and that He shares some emotions with us...a personal Savior.

Click to expand...

I started this so if I might, let me explain. The story of Jonah explains it the best.

Jonah did not want to go to Ninivah but the Lord made Him.. Later,,Jonah cried out the warning GOD had given HIM. To save time, the King and the city repent and changed their ways. Thus God changed His mind to destroy them or at least put it on pause. (Jonah 3).

We see this in the Grace of Jesus Christ. No matter what you do, if You turn to Jesus and believe in him, you will receive Salvation.

This is the change from one outcome to another. Make no mistake, this change in the outcome of God's wrath has to come through you or there will be NO change.

Blade

Bladerunner said:

I started this so if I might, let me explain. The story of Jonah explains it the best.

Jonah did not want to go to Ninivah but the Lord made Him.. Later,,Jonah cried out the warning GOD had given HIM. To save time, the King and the city repent and changed their ways. Thus God changed His mind to destroy them or at least put it on pause. (Jonah 3).

We see this in the Grace of Jesus Christ. No matter what you do, if You turn to Jesus and believe in him, you will receive Salvation.

This is the change from one outcome to another. Make no mistake, this change in the outcome of God's wrath has to come through you or there will be NO change.

Blade

Click to expand...

No, I disagree. Your example is illustrative of God using one of His chosen to do His work...on that I agree. Perhaps you do not believe in predestination which illustrates this was His purpose all along and passages such as Ephesians 2:10:
For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
also inform us that even our works were created by Him according to His good will and purpose. In fact it is difficult to know where we begin and end were we wanting to sort ourselves out from God Himself once we His child...
Philippians 2:13:
for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.
Also, His work of creation, punishment, trials...all can be and in the case of creation is the work of God alone.

throughfireytrial said:

No, I disagree. Your example is illustrative of God using one of His chosen to do His work...on that I agree. Perhaps you do not believe in predestination which illustrates this was His purpose all along and passages such as Ephesians 2:10:
For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
also inform us that even our works were created by Him according to His good will and purpose. In fact it is difficult to know where we begin and end were we wanting to sort ourselves out from God Himself once we His child...
Philippians 2:13:
for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.
Also, His work of creation, punishment, trials...all can be and in the case of creation is the work of God alone.

Click to expand...

Then we are nothing more than Automatons. Jonah used his free-will to shirk his duties that GOD wanted him to do. In the end, the staggering amount of theatrics that GOD used to show Jonah that He would not take "NO" for an answer, got His attention.

Blade

Grip Docility,

[Perfection can certainly become more Perfect.]
no chance

I would never blaspheme Him by saying He could become imperfect.

[By saying God cannot learn and Grow... humanity suggests that God is Stagnant. I severely disagree.]
You need to study the attributes of God revealed in scripture, not carnal philosophy

[Like Fine wine that is spectacular... God improves with each passing of eternity.]
Nope. God is always God and perfect

[The Best gets better and better and never ceases to forever be the perpetual outpouring of Love.]

Sorry , no. God is God and does not get better

ICONO'CLAST said:

Grip Docility,

[Perfection can certainly become more Perfect.]
no chance

I would never blaspheme Him by saying He could become imperfect.

[By saying God cannot learn and Grow... humanity suggests that God is Stagnant. I severely disagree.]
You need to study the attributes of God revealed in scripture, not carnal philosophy

[Like Fine wine that is spectacular... God improves with each passing of eternity.]
Nope. God is always God and perfect

[The Best gets better and better and never ceases to forever be the perpetual outpouring of Love.]

Sorry , no. God is God and does not get better

Click to expand...

I appreciate this response.

Did we create God in our Image, or did God create us in His?

Are you aware you are basing this collective Theology off of the Philosopher Plato?

Would you say God is Love, and His Character never changes?

So, you are saying God has limitations?

Is God Responsive or Determinist, as revealed in scripture?

Grip Docility said:

I appreciate this response.

Did we create God in our Image, or did God create us in His?

Are you aware you are basing this collective Theology off of the Philosopher Plato?

Would you say God is Love, and His Character never changes?

So, you are saying God has limitations?

Click to expand...

My response is from scripture only, not Plato or any other fallen man.

ICONO'CLAST said:

My response is from scripture only, not Plato or any other fallen man.

Click to expand...

I will return shortly with quotations from Plato on the matter that Christianity has adopted for ages.

Grip Docility said:

I will return shortly with quotations from Plato on the matter that Christianity has adopted for ages.

Click to expand...

Do not do it on my behalf. God has given scripture which trumps anything from human wisdom. Spirit-given wisdom is for our good.

ICONO'CLAST said:

Do not do it on my behalf. God has given scripture which trumps anything from human wisdom. Spirit-given wisdom is for our good.

Click to expand...

You were kind enough to not answer the questions I posited to further understand your perspective Here <~, and share your opinion with me...

No trouble at all.

Modern Christians often say the following:

Even reason teaches us that no change is possible in God, since a change is either for better or for worse. But in God, as the absolute Perfection, improvement and deterioration are both equally impossible.“ Source of quote: (the greek origin of omniscience)

A more thorough reading would be here... http://www.metaphysicalsociety.org/2011/SSPPSession_Dombrowski.pdf
As it is a Seattle University paper on Plato's writings on God.

Plato founded this type of discussed verbiage in “The Republic”.The Internet Classics Archive | The Republic by Plato

Now, personally, I wouldn't incorporate Plato into scripture, but, then again... it is common practice.

All Love in Jesus Christ to you.

Carl Emerson said:

I am keen to hear comment on this topic and how it might shape our perception of Him.

Some scripture seems to suggest God never does this. Others record Him relenting His intent.

Can we bring clarity to this topic please.

Click to expand...

I don’t think we could ever understand the mind of God. Not truly. Not here. Gods decisions happen on a cosmic scale, and with his words he commands reality, so we must be extremely cautious in this kind of philosophy. Gods mind is not feeble like mans, and as it is, he has a purpose for everyone and everything.

I cannot say yes or no, but what I will say is that God also has a heart. At some points in scripture we see men and women touching the heart of God and seemingly cause a change in his mind, but how do we know that his intention wasn’t to have that particular person in that particular situation to draw the nations to himself to begin with?

You would think with a story like Jonah’s, that God would surely change his mind about who he’d use to reach the Ninevites, but still God made provision for each each step.

I think we should change our thinking on this because God is full of truth, righteousness and justice. As such, diverging from any of those qualities would render God untrue, and that’s simply not the case.

God will never choose to be unjust, he will never choose to be unkind, unloving, or unholy. Nothing we do will change Gods minds about himself, his Son, or the plan he has for those who call themselves his children.