Are Seventh Day Adventists open to OSAS because i saw that in a thread i found on bing?

JLB777 said:

Make sure you follow the way the commandment was given, not just the parts of the commandment.


You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Exodus 31:14-15



Does the SDA organization teach and obey this Sabbath commandment?




JLB

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Well---ok---I'll see what I can do about that---just to keep you happy.

JLB777 said:

Make sure you follow the way the commandment was given, not just the parts of the commandment.


You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Exodus 31:14-15



Does the SDA organization teach and obey this Sabbath commandment?




JLB

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We sure enough do. If any of us who truly understand God's commandments and still won't obey them the penalty is death. Just like the penalty given to Adam and Eve.

The same goes for all of humanity for the Sabbath was given to all of mankind before sin, or Jews or Gentiles ever existed. And the final, irrevocable second death is the death to fear. This life is only preparatory for the life to come. You know, eternal life. What we do today has a great bearing on whether we live eternally or not. It is still, just like in the Garden of Eden, obey God and live, disobey Him, rebel against His words, and die. The penalty for sin has never changed.

Gary K said:

We sure enough do. If any of us who truly understand God's commandments and still won't obey them the penalty is death. Just like the penalty given to Adam and Eve.

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So if you’re saying we will perish in eternal death if we don’t keep the Sabbath, then please explain to all of us how Jesus and His Apostles instructed the Church to keep the Sabbath today, under the New Covenant.


Make sure you are very detailed because it will cost us our eternal life if we miss anything.



So let’s start with going to Church.


If we go to Church on Sunday, rather than Saturday, will we perish in eternal death?



JLB

JLB777 said:

So if you’re saying we will perish in eternal death if we don’t keep the Sabbath, then please explain to all of us how Jesus and His Apostles instructed the Church to keep the Sabbath today, under the New Covenant.


Make sure you are very detailed because it will cost us our eternal life if we miss anything.



So let’s start with going to Church.


If we go to Church on Sunday, rather than Saturday, will we perish in eternal death?



JLB

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Only once it becomes a law that we are to keep Sunday instead of God's true Sabbath. Then it becomes a question of whom will you follow--God or man?
If you are convicted by the Holy Spirit of the truth of the Sabbath before then, and refuse to abide by that knowledge, then you stand in rejection of the Holy Spirit's bidding.

mmksparbud said:

Only once it becomes a law that we are to keep Sunday instead of God's true Sabbath. Then it becomes a question of whom will you follow--God or man?
If you are convicted by the Holy Spirit of the truth of the Sabbath before then, and refuse to abide by that knowledge, then you stand in rejection of the Holy Spirit's bidding.

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Can you show me from the New Testament where Jesus or His Apostles Commanded the Church to gather on Saturday to worship the Lord?



JLB

JLB777 said:

Can you show me from the New Testament where Jesus or His Apostles Commanded the Church to gather on Saturday to worship the Lord?



JLB

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What do you think Jesus and the disciples did in the synagogues? What do you call worship?
The NT was written many years after the resurrection oil Jesus, yet the 7th day is still called the sabbath. The disciples were still teaching on the sabbath in the synagogues---and it wasn't to reach the gentiles, they wouldn't haver been allowed into them. The disciples met on the 1st day of the week a couple times---it was not to worship.

Luk_4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
Luk_4:31 And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days.
Luk_6:6 And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered.
Luk_13:10 And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.

Luk_14:1 And it came to pass, as he went into the house of one of the chief Pharisees to eat bread on the sabbath day, that they watched him.
Act_13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
Act_13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
Act_13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
Act_13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
Act_15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Act_16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
Act_17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Act_18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
For more on the subject--85 times the disciples met on sabbath in the book of Acts alone:

The Disciples Kept the Sabbath 85 Times in Acts

mmksparbud said:

What do you think Jesus and the disciples did in the synagogues?

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Preached the Gospel to the unsaved.


Immediately he preached the Christ in the synagogues, that He is the Son of God.
Then all who heard were amazed, and said, “Is this not he who destroyed those who called on this name in Jerusalem, and has come here for that purpose, so that he might bring them bound to the chief priests?”
But Saul increased all the more in strength, and confounded the Jews who dwelt in Damascus, proving that this Jesus is the Christ.
Saul Escapes Death
Now after many days were past, the Jews plotted to kill him.
Acts 9:20-23



JLB

mmksparbud said:

What do you think Jesus and the disciples did in the synagogues? What do you call worship?
The NT was written many years after the resurrection oil Jesus, yet the 7th day is still called the sabbath. The disciples were still teaching on the sabbath in the synagogues---and it wasn't to reach the gentiles, they wouldn't haver been allowed into them. The disciples met on the 1st day of the week a couple times---it was not to worship.

Luk_4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
Luk_4:31 And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days.
Luk_6:6 And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered.
Luk_13:10 And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.

Luk_14:1 And it came to pass, as he went into the house of one of the chief Pharisees to eat bread on the sabbath day, that they watched him.
Act_13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
Act_13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
Act_13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
Act_13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
Act_15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Act_16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
Act_17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Act_18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
For more on the subject--85 times the disciples met on sabbath in the book of Acts alone:

The Disciples Kept the Sabbath 85 Times in Acts

Click to expand...

I counted 9 occurrences in the book of Acts of the disciples keeping the Sabbath day.

The Disciples Kept the Sabbath 85 Times in Acts

Click to expand...

You will need to provide the other 76 references to the verses in Acts, which describe the disciples honoring the Sabbath.

JLB777 said:

Preached the Gospel to the unsaved.


Immediately he preached the Christ in the synagogues, that He is the Son of God.
Then all who heard were amazed, and said, “Is this not he who destroyed those who called on this name in Jerusalem, and has come here for that purpose, so that he might bring them bound to the chief priests?”
But Saul increased all the more in strength, and confounded the Jews who dwelt in Damascus, proving that this Jesus is the Christ.
Saul Escapes Death
Now after many days were past, the Jews plotted to kill him.
Acts 9:20-23



JLB

Click to expand...

The gentiles were not in the synagogues.

klutedavid said:

I counted 9 occurrences in the book of Acts of the disciples keeping the Sabbath day.

You will need to provide the other 76 references to the verses in Acts, which describe the disciples honoring the Sabbath.

Click to expand...

You obviously just gave a quick scan of the article instead of actually reading it. I can't read it for you.

"A year and six months! Finally the ruler of the synagogue was converted to Yahushua and Paul was there a year and six months! So the scripture says that Paul was there every Sabbath and that he was there for a year and six months. If we counted this by our present calendar that would give us 52 Sabbaths in a year plus 26 Sabbaths in the following six months which gives us a total of 78 Sabbaths!"

And you know what?--Even if it was only 9 times in the book of Acts---that is enough to prove the disciples did keep the Sabbath!

klutedavid said:

I counted 9 occurrences in the book of Acts of the disciples keeping the Sabbath day.

Click to expand...

Please post them so we can see how we are to observe the Sabbath by going to synagogues on Saturday we’re unbelieving Jews gather.



JLB

mmksparbud said:

The gentiles were not in the synagogues.

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You asked what Jesus and His disciples did in the synagogues?


Do you believe uncircumcised Gentiles are allowed in synagogues?


Can’t you see that the first step in keeping the law of Moses is becoming circumcised?


Are you and your SDA organization proving that Gentiles must be circumcised to keep the Sabbath ?


Do you have any scriptures from Jesus and His Apostles as to how Gentiles are commanded to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant?



JLB

JLB777 said:

You asked what Jesus and His disciples did in the synagogues?


Do you believe uncircumcised Gentiles are allowed in synagogues?


Can’t you see that the first step in keeping the law of Moses is becoming circumcised?


Are you and your SDA organization proving that Gentiles must be circumcised to keep the Sabbath ?


Do you have any scriptures from Jesus and His Apostles as to how Gentiles are commanded to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant?



JLB

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That's crazy! Are you seriously saying that the gentiles were there to get circumcised---when Paul and the disciples all said that was not needed anymore?

This whole discussion can come to a swift end---please quote the verse that states--"We are now to keep the 1st day of the week in honor of the resurrection instead of the 7th."
When getting rid of circumcision, there was a war about it---very heated discussions---and it wasn't even one of the 10 commandments! The 4th gets changed and no one says a word about it???!!!
Believe what you want---I just simply will not replace what God wrote with His own hand on stone when Jesus, nor any disciple, said anything about it.

klutedavid said:

I counted 9 in the book of Acts of the disciples keeping the Sabbath day.

You will need to provide the other 76 references to the verses in Acts, which describe the disciples honoring the Sabbath.

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Seems to me you have the cart before the horse for I counted zero occurrences of them worshiping on Sunday. Where is your evidence for that?

Also, a large part of the Christian church in those early days came from out of the Jews. Look at the huge controversy that arose when Gentiles were not required to be circumcised. And you think setting up another day of worship would have caused no recorded controversy within the church? It woud have infuriated the Jewish Christians for the very roots of Christianity are found in the religion of the Jews. In fact, it is the same religion for the Jewish religion pointed towards Jesus. Their entire religious economy pointed towards the Messiah. Jesus was the center of their religion, but they themselves had lost sight of what their own religion was all about.

The underlying premises to your argument expose the problem in your spiritual ideas.
1. God says He never changes. Malachi 3:6 The basis of your argument is that God somehow changed, which is a direct contradiction of scripture.
2. The underlying, though unspoken, assertion is that God's law has been done away with, is no longer in force. That's just flat out false. I will show this from the NT.

Romans 10:4 Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

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This text does not say that which you assume it says.

The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 (gcide)
End End ([e^]nd), n. [OE. & AS. ende; akin to OS. endi, D.
einde, eind, OHG. enti, G. ende, Icel. endir, endi, Sw.
[aum]nde, Dan. ende, Goth. andeis, Skr. anta. [root]208. Cf.
Ante-, Anti-, Answer.]
1. The extreme or last point or part of any material thing
considered lengthwise (the extremity of breadth being
side); hence, extremity, in general; the concluding part;
termination; close; limit; as, the end of a field, line,
pole, road; the end of a year, of a discourse; put an end
to pain; -- opposed to beginning, when used of anything
having a first part.
[1913 Webster]

Better is the end of a thing than the beginning
thereof. --Eccl. vii.
8.
[1913 Webster]

2. Point beyond which no procession can be made; conclusion;
issue; result, whether successful or otherwise; conclusive
event; consequence.
[1913 Webster]

My guilt be on my head, and there an end. --Shak.
[1913 Webster]

O that a man might know
The end of this day's business ere it come! --Shak.
[1913 Webster]

3. Termination of being; death; destruction; extermination;
also, cause of death or destruction.
[1913 Webster]

Unblamed through life, lamented in thy end. --Pope.
[1913 Webster]

Confound your hidden falsehood, and award
Either of you to be the other's end. --Shak.
[1913 Webster]

I shall see an end of him. --Shak.
[1913 Webster]

4. The object aimed at in any effort considered as the close
and effect of exertion; purpose; intention; aim; as, to
labor for private or public ends.
[1913 Webster]

Losing her, the end of living lose. --Dryden.
[1913 Webster]

When every man is his own end, all things will come
to a bad end. --Coleridge.
[1913 Webster]

5. That which is left; a remnant; a fragment; a scrap; as,
odds and ends.
[1913 Webster]

I clothe my naked villainy
With old odd ends stolen out of holy writ,
And seem a saint, when most I play the devil.
--Shak.
[1913 Webster]

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Notice especially that definition I bolded. That definition of the "end" of something includes the idea of being the point aimed at. That means Jesus didn't do away with the law for it is still pointing towards our need of Christ for without Him we cannot keep it. It still serves its purpose in doing so. Paul reiterates this idea when he says the law is our schoolmaster that brings us to Christ. You do agree that we all need Christ, don't you? I don't know about you but I need that point reinforced to me daily to show me that I, like Paul, need to die to self daily for the law points my inherent selfishness.

David agrees with this too.

Psalm 19:7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

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God's law is perfect and it converts us. How? By showing us our desperate need of Christ. And something that is perfect is never done away with as if it is faulty in some respect. Plus, God's law will be in force in heaven too for Isaiah tells us that we will gather together to worship there on Sabbath also.

Isaiah 66: 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

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It looks to me that if you plan on being in heaven you need to get over your hostility towards God's law and the Sabbath now for you will be observing it heaven.

mmksparbud said:

That's crazy! Are you seriously saying that the gentiles were there to get circumcised-

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Absolutely not.

My point is, Gentiles don’t go to synagogues because they are uncircumcised.


My point is, Gentiles don’t keep the law of Moses because there uncircumcised.


My point s Gentiles don’t keep the Sabbath according to Moses law, because they are uncircumcised.



Paul says if Gentiles become circumcised they are obligated to keep all the law.





JLB

JLB777 said:

Absolutely not.

My point is, Gentiles don’t go to synagogues because they are uncircumcised.


My point is, Gentiles don’t keep the law of Moses because there uncircumcised.


My point s Gentiles don’t keep the Sabbath according to Moses law, because they are uncircumcised.



Paul says if Gentiles become circumcised they are obligated to keep all the law.





JLB

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Gentile or Jew---no one needs to be circumcised so you don't have a point. And there are plenty of non Jews that are circumcised--it's usually done on the 8ith day after birth--that is when the baby's clotting factors click in. And circumcision is not one of the 10 commandments.

mmksparbud said:

Gentile or Jew---no one needs to be circumcised so you don't have a point. And there are plenty of non Jews that are circumcised--it's usually done on the 8ith day after birth--that is when the baby's clotting factors click in. And circumcision is not one of the 10 commandments.

Click to expand...

Anyone wants to keep the Sabbath according to Moses must become circumcised, as well as put to death the Sabbath breakers.


You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Exodus 31:14-15



Do you are your organization obey these Sabbath commandments?


JLB

mmksparbud said:

Gentile or Jew---no one needs to be circumcised so you don't have a point. And there are plenty of non Jews that are circumcised--it's usually done on the 8ith day after birth--that is when the baby's clotting factors click in. And circumcision is not one of the 10 commandments.

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Circumcision is the law.

It is irrelevant if circumcision is not one of the ten commandments because you cannot break the law since sin is lawlessness. The law includes, sorcery, taking bribes, kidnapping, afflicting widows and orphans, e.t.c.

Your trying to say that all you need to do is rest on Saturday and you can ignore the rest of the law? Your definitely of the opinion that you can do whatever you like, get drunk, assault people since only murder is the real sin. Be a glutton, avoid paying tax, take drugs, gamble; because they are not included in the ten commandments.

You can't be serious.

mmksparbud said:

Gentile or Jew---no one needs to be circumcised so you don't have a point. And there are plenty of non Jews that are circumcised--it's usually done on the 8ith day after birth--that is when the baby's clotting factors click in. And circumcision is not one of the 10 commandments.

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Jews will tell you that you as a Gentile are forbidden from honoring the Sabbath day.

The Sabbath was only given to the Jews.

The underlying premises to your argument expose the problem in your spiritual ideas.
1. God says He never changes. Malachi 3:6 The basis of your argument is that God somehow changed, which is a direct contradiction of scripture.

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But the law did change.

Hebrews 7:12
For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also.

We are now under the law of Christ.