Did the event of 1948 Israel fulfill any Bible prophecy?

OldWiseGuy · Jun 1, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Good question.......I am still confused by it all.........

https://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPreterism/index.html

Contemporary "Partial Preterist" View

A.D.70 S
A coming (parousia) of Christ
A day of the Lord
A judgment
The end of the Jewish Age

Still future
The Day of the Lord
The Resurrection of the dead
The Rapture of the living
The (final) Judgment
The end of history

=====================================

https://www.preteristarchive.com/Modern/index.html

MODERN PRETERISM (MP) - A) Umbrella term covering all those who believe that the majority of Bible prophecy was totally fulfilled in the early centuries of the Christian era. Determined by looking at where authors find a "transition" from the past to the future using the Olivet Discourse of Matthew 24/25 and the Apocalypse of John.
Differs from Full Preterism in that it does not make the Parousia, the General Judgment, nor the General Resurrection events solely of the past. B) According to known literature, this class emerged during the Reformation or Counter Reformation and can be seen in a fully developed form at the beginning of the 17th century in the writings of the Jesuit Alcasar -- although many believe that the "Preterist Assumption" seen throughout church history reveals the ancient and medieval equivalents of the Modern Preterist view. (perhaps systematized the most consistenty in 310 by Eusebius in "Theophany"). C) Teaches that the bulk of "end times" prophecy has sole application to ancient Israel, but that some regards the "last day" -- sometimes that "end" being personal, not global, in nature. Transitions somewhere in Matthew 25, or near the end of the Apocalypse of John.
==================================

Defense of the Orthodox View of the Second Coming of Christ

Richard Barcellos Some Thoughts on Hyper Preterism "I view it as neo-Hymenaenism, a damning heresy, idle babbling, a cancer which must be cut out immediately!"

Committee Paper Investigating Full Preterism

Anathema of Preterism - Missouri Synod Lutheran

Dr. Gary North vs. David Chilton

Puritan Board Official Damns Preterists

Anathema of Preterism - Reformed USA

The Braying of Heretics, or, The Heresies of Bray

Editorial: Chicken Little Goes to Church

Andrew Sandlin's Response to Walt Hibbard

An Open Letter to Ligonier Ministries

A Response to "Full Preterism"

Mark Horne: Why Side with the Sadducees?

Paul Manata: Transcendental Argument Against HyperPreterism (TAAHP)

Paul Manata: You Might Be A Hyper-Preterist

Resolution Concerning Preterism and the Future, Physical Fulfillment of Biblical Prophecies

I asked you the time, and you built me a clock. :doh:

Why do you believe the birthright promise was denied to Joseph, having been repeated and assured for so long?

LittleLambofJesus · Jun 1, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
Good question.......I am still confused by it all.........
https://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPreterism/index.html

OldWiseGuy said:
I asked you the time, and you built me a clock.

Why do you believe the birthright promise was denied to Joseph, having been repeated and assured for so long?

Never said I did, that I know of.
A question I have is why is the other son of Joseph, Ephraim, missing in Revelation? [Dan is also missing]
I would ask the Jews about it, but alas, they do not read Revelation which contains 12 of their own tribes..........

12 Tribes of Revelation 7
1. Judah = "I will praise the Lord" 2. Reuben = "He has looked on me" 3. Gad = "Granted good fortune" 4. Asher = "Happy am I" 5. Naphtali = "My wrestling" 6. Manasseh = "Making me to forget" 7. Simeon = "God hears me" 8. Levi = "Joined to me" 9. Issachar = "Purchased Me" 10. Zebulun = "Dwelling" 11. Joseph = "God will add to me" 12. Benjamin = "Son of His right hand"

Jos 17:17
And Joshua spoke to the house of Joseph—to Ephraim and Manasseh—saying, “You are a great people and have great power; you shall not have only one lot,

Psa 78:
67 Moreover He rejected the tent of Joseph,
And did not choose the tribe of Ephraim,
68 But chose the tribe of Judah,
Mount Zion which He loved.

Eze 37:16
“As for you, son of adam!
take a stick for yourself and write on it: ‘For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.'
Then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.'
Eze 37:19
say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD:
“Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions;
and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.” '

jgr · Jun 1, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
I asked you the time, and you built me a clock.

Why do you believe the birthright promise was denied to Joseph, having been repeated and assured for so long?

Why do you not believe that all the promises are fulfilled in Christ, and those who are in Christ? (2 Corinthians 1:20; Galatians 3:16,28,29; Romans 8:16,17)

OldWiseGuy · Jun 1, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Never said I did, that I know of.
A question I have is why is the other son of Joseph, Ephraim, missing in Revelation? [Dan is also missing]
I would ask the Jews about it, but alas, they do not read Revelation which contains 12 of their own tribes..........

12 Tribes of Revelation 7
1. Judah = "I will praise the Lord" 2. Reuben = "He has looked on me" 3. Gad = "Granted good fortune" 4. Asher = "Happy am I" 5. Naphtali = "My wrestling" 6. Manasseh = "Making me to forget" 7. Simeon = "God hears me" 8. Levi = "Joined to me" 9. Issachar = "Purchased Me" 10. Zebulun = "Dwelling" 11. Joseph = "God will add to me" 12. Benjamin = "Son of His right hand"

Jos 17:17
And Joshua spoke to the house of Joseph—to Ephraim and Manasseh—saying, “You are a great people and have great power; you shall not have only one lot,

Psa 78:
67 Moreover He rejected the tent of Joseph,
And did not choose the tribe of Ephraim,
68 But chose the tribe of Judah,
Mount Zion which He loved.

Eze 37:16
“As for you, son of adam!
take a stick for yourself and write on it: ‘For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.'
Then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.'
Eze 37:19
say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD:
“Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions;
and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.” '

Joseph and Ephraim are used interchangeably. Ephraim is the principle tribe representing Joseph. Manasseh is often called the "half-tribe".

Dan is later redeemed and has his place in the gates of new Jerusalem. It is thought that his idolatry caused a temporary estrangement from God. British Israelism identifies Ireland as the descendants of Dan, and their Catholicism as idolatry.

jgr · Jun 1, 2019

LLoJ provided the meanings of the names of those tribes which are included in the Revelation enumeration.

You'll notice that those meanings describe the qualities and experiences which have characterized God's Chosen People through the ages, culminating in His New Testament Church.

By contrast, the meanings of the names of Dan and Ephraim convey the reasons for their exclusion:

Dan means “a serpent by the way”(Genesis 49:17)

Satan in the guise of the serpent was responsible for the fall of mankind in Genesis 3, and for the bruising of Messiah's heel in Scripture's first recorded prophecy of Genesis 3:15. It was the same serpent Satan whose head Messiah bruised at Calvary.

Ephraim means “fruitful in the land of mine affliction” (Genesis 41:52)

The reference to “the land of mine affliction” in Ephraim's name's meaning is to that of Egypt, which in Scripture is both a literal and spiritual reality and symbol of bondage. But the Church, God's Chosen People, do not inhabit a land of spiritual affliction and bondage. Rather, they inhabit the Heavenly Jerusalem on Mount Sion (Hebrews 12:22,23), located in the Heavenly Country that God has prepared for the faithful (Hebrews 11:16).

OldWiseGuy · Jun 1, 2019

jgr said:
Why do you not believe that all the promises are fulfilled in Christ, and those who are in Christ? (2 Corinthians 1:20; Galatians 3:16,28,29; Romans 8:16,17)

These scriptures have nothing to do with the birthright, right of birth, promises. They are the promises of grace.

jgr · Jun 1, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
These scriptures have nothing to do with the birthright, right of birth, promises. They are the promises of grace.

The Holy Spirit and Paul disagree.

2 Corinthians 1
20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

No mention or implication of limitation.

LittleLambofJesus · Jun 1, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
Never said I did, that I know of.
A question I have is why is the other son of Joseph, Ephraim, missing in Revelation? [Dan is also missing]
I would ask the Jews about it, but alas, they do not read Revelation which contains 12 of their own tribes..........

OldWiseGuy said:
Joseph and Ephraim are used interchangeably. Ephraim is the principle tribe representing Joseph. Manasseh is often called the "half-tribe".
Dan is later redeemed and has his place in the gates of new Jerusalem. It is thought that his idolatry caused a temporary estrangement from God. British Israelism identifies Ireland as the descendants of Dan, and their Catholicism as idolatry.

jgr said:
LLoJ provided the meanings of the names of those tribes which are included in the Revelation enumeration.

You'll notice that those meanings describe the qualities and experiences which have characterized God's Chosen People through the ages, culminating in His New Testament Church.

By contrast, the meanings of the names of Dan and Ephraim convey the reasons for their exclusion:

Dan means “a serpent by the way”(Genesis 49:17)

Satan in the guise of the serpent was responsible for the fall of mankind in Genesis 3, and for the bruising of Messiah's heel in Scripture's first recorded prophecy of Genesis 3:15. It was the same serpent Satan whose head Messiah bruised at Calvary.

Ephraim means “fruitful in the land of mine affliction” (Genesis 41:52)

The reference to “the land of mine affliction” in Ephraim's name's meaning is to that of Egypt, which in Scripture is both a literal and spiritual reality and symbol of bondage. But the Church, God's Chosen People, do not inhabit a land of spiritual affliction and bondage. Rather, they inhabit the Heavenly Jerusalem on Mount Sion (Hebrews 12:22,23), located in the Heavenly Country that God has prepared for the faithful (Hebrews 11:16).

Joseph in Egypt and his sons is one of my favorites stories in the Bible.

In the second year of famine, Joseph's half brothers were sent to Egypt, by their father Israel, to buy goods. When they came to Egypt, they stood before the Vizier but did not recognize him to be their brother Joseph. However, Joseph did recognize them and did not receive them kindly.

OldWiseGuy · Jun 1, 2019

jgr said:
By contrast, the meanings of the names of Dan and Ephraim convey the reasons for their exclusion:

So there is a separate tribe named Ephraim?

jgr said:
Dan means “a serpent by the way”(Genesis 49:17)

Satan in the guise of the serpent was responsible for the fall of mankind in Genesis 3, and for the bruising of Messiah's heel in Scripture's first recorded prophecy of Genesis 3:15. It was the same serpent Satan whose head Messiah bruised at Calvary.

The "serpent by the way" is prophetic of Dan in the last days.

jgr said:
Ephraim means “fruitful in the land of mine affliction” (Genesis 41:52)

The reference to “the land of mine affliction” in Ephraim's name's meaning is to that of Egypt, which in Scripture is both a literal and spiritual reality and symbol of bondage.

It is clear from other references that the 'fruitfulness' of Ephraim would only occur in the last days. There is no biblical record of the birthright promise being conveyed to either Ephraim or Manasseh.

OldWiseGuy · Jun 1, 2019

jgr said:
The Holy Spirit and Paul disagree.

2 Corinthians 1
20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

No mention or implication of limitation.

Sure, but Christ is not in possession of all the promises at this time, unless you figure that he has passed them on to us. In fact what good are the promises made for Christ only if we don't share them?

jgr · Jun 1, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
So there is a separate tribe named Ephraim?

Who has said differently?

OldWiseGuy said:
The "serpent by the way" is prophetic of Dan in the last days.

NT Scripture?

OldWiseGuy said:
It is clear from other references that the 'fruitfulness' of Ephraim would only occur in the last days.

NT Scripture?

jgr · Jun 1, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
Sure, but Christ is not in possession of all the promises at this time

NT Scripture?

OldWiseGuy · Jun 1, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Joseph in Egypt and his sons is one of my favorites stories in the Bible.

In the second year of famine, Joseph's half brothers were sent to Egypt, by their father Israel, to buy goods. When they came to Egypt, they stood before the Vizier but did not recognize him to be their brother Joseph. However, Joseph did recognize them and did not receive them kindly.

Great video. It reminds why Joseph's descendants were chosen for the birthright blessings.

OldWiseGuy · Jun 1, 2019

jgr said:
Who has said differently?

LittleLambofJesus. Post #642

jgr said:
NT Scripture?

It's a last days prophecy.

jgr said:
NT Scripture?

Last days prophecy.

OldWiseGuy · Jun 1, 2019

jgr said:
NT Scripture?

If Jesus is in possession of the birthright blessings he sure isn't sharing them with everyone. What do you think he's waiting for?

jgr · Jun 1, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
It's a last days prophecy.

NT Scripture?

OldWiseGuy said:
Last days prophecy.

NT Scripture?

OldWiseGuy said:
If Jesus is in possession of the birthright blessings he sure isn't sharing them with everyone. What do you think he's waiting for?

Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

parousia70 · Jun 1, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
Regarding your post; sure these prophetic events did occur, but not in their end time fullness.

What you are espousing here is preterism.

Only preterists believe what you have just said.

parousia70 · Jun 1, 2019

Seville90210 said:
Oh yeah that's no secret to many of us on this forum. It's only to the moderators he's hidden under their radar.

I fit were true it could be demonstrated.

Can you demonstrate this assertion?

parousia70 · Jun 1, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
You are assuming that I am in error, not the apostles.

You have stated the apostles believed and taught something you personally believe they were wrong about.

That's your own conundrum to sort out, but I am fascinated how you can simultaneously hold the position that the apostles taught both error and truth.

Maybe someday you'll share how you reconcile this.

Your belief regarding Revelation is a minority view.

And your point is?
In it's beginnings, Christianity was Jesus and His 12 apostles. A minority view for certain.

parousia70 · Jun 1, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
Revelation 1:19

"Write therefore the things which thou sawest, and the things which are, and the things which shall come to pass hereafter;" "Hereafter" is indeterminate.

Try the YLT:

19 `Write the things that thou hast seen, and the things that are, and the things that are about to come after these things;

"abut to come" is not indefinite, indeterminate, nor can it be stretched into 2 millennia and counting....

Did the event of 1948 Israel fulfill any Bible prophecy?

Did event of Israel 1948 fulfill any Bible prophecy?

No

Yes

I don't know

Other

Wake me when it's soup.

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Well-Known Member

Wake me when it's soup.

Well-Known Member

Wake me when it's soup.

Well-Known Member

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Wake me when it's soup.

Wake me when it's soup.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Wake me when it's soup.

Wake me when it's soup.

Wake me when it's soup.

Well-Known Member

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

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