OCA and GOA in communion or not?

ArmyMatt · May 22, 2019

A Shield of Turquoise said:
And again... where?

I don't have the writings of St Justinian before me, but I know he quotes St Cyril saying Christ speaks as God and man, for He retains authority IN BOTH NATURES.

ArmyMatt · May 22, 2019

A Shield of Turquoise said:
You will find Severus routinely referred to as a monophysite in Byzantine Orthodox literature.

Examples from the hymns:

O mindless and vain Severus, tell us: is the Word, the Son of the Father of lights, a single essence, commingled, unoriginate? For if thou sayest so, thou dost postulate a different essence; for flesh and the Word are not a single essence, but are two, O wretched one!

The six hundred and thirty pious men, having cast down the deception of Eutyches and the heresy of Severus, attained unto this hymn: We preach Christ in two natures, walking according to the pronouncement of the blessed Cyril!

again, do you know what actually got him condemned? it might clarify things.

plus, we call Nestorius the new Judaizer, even though his heresy wasn't the same.

A Shield of Turquoise · May 22, 2019

ArmyMatt said:
again, do you know what actually got him condemned? it might clarify things.

plus, we call Nestorius the new Judaizer, even though his heresy wasn't the same.

What got Severus condemned was his teaching and his activity as a polemicist against Chalcedon. It's not a secret.

The EO hymns not only name him next to Eutyches but explicitly accuse him of teaching that Christ has only one essence, i.e. monophysitism. And you can find plenty more where that came from.

A Shield of Turquoise · May 22, 2019

ArmyMatt said:
I don't have the writings of St Justinian before me, but I know he quotes St Cyril saying Christ speaks as God and man, for He retains authority IN BOTH NATURES.

I'd have to see what it actually says. If it's authentic then I have no doubt EO's would be quoting it up and down over the centuries of polemics against the OO's. That they haven't suggests to me that A) it probably isn't authentic or B) it doesn't say what you think it says.

ArmyMatt · May 22, 2019

A Shield of Turquoise said:
What got Severus condemned was his teaching and his activity as a polemicist against Chalcedon. It's not a secret.

The EO hymns not only name him next to Eutyches but explicitly accuse him of teaching that Christ has only one essence, i.e. monophysitism. And you can find plenty more where that came from.

not true, he was condemned for a very specific heresy that he advocated. modern non-Chalcedonians often reference his heresy as true to why we are heretical.

ArmyMatt · May 22, 2019

A Shield of Turquoise said:
I'd have to see what it actually says. If it's authentic then I have no doubt EO's would be quoting it up and down over the centuries of polemics against the OO's. That they haven't suggests to me that A) it probably isn't authentic or B) it doesn't say what you think it says.

who says we haven't?

Not David · May 22, 2019

A Shield of Turquoise said:
I'd have to see what it actually says. If it's authentic then I have no doubt EO's would be quoting it up and down over the centuries of polemics against the OO's. That they haven't suggests to me that A) it probably isn't authentic or B) it doesn't say what you think it says.

You are making a strawman now.

gurneyhalleck1 · May 22, 2019

I still say your screen name sounds like a cell phone service. I keep thinking you’re trying to get me to switch over. ^_^

SingularityOne said:
I know that ROCOR and GOA are not in communion as of now, but is the GOA in communion with the OCA?

God willing there is a reunion soon.

SingularityOne · May 23, 2019

gurneyhalleck1 said:
I still say your screen name sounds like a cell phone service. I keep thinking you’re trying to get me to switch over.

I graduated with a marketing degree in undergrad, so maybe that’s my goal subconsciously... haha

gurneyhalleck1 · May 23, 2019

But, sir, I'm already happy with my long-distance provider! :sorry:

SingularityOne said:
I graduated with a marketing degree in undergrad, so maybe that’s my goal subconsciously... haha

Andrei D · May 23, 2019

Me, I just hope HBO picks up a series about Byzantium. It has it all, much better than GoT. Small councils, big councils, huge councils, assassinations, weddings, secret plots, even a scheming eunuch! Not sure about dragons, but we can work in St. George somehow.

ArmyMatt · May 23, 2019

Andrei D said:
Me, I just hope HBO picks up a series about Byzantium. It has it all, much better than GoT. Small councils, big councils, huge councils, assassinations, weddings, secret plots, even a scheming eunuch! Not sure about dragons, but we can work in St. George somehow.

well, they did do a series about Rome...

E.C. · May 31, 2019

ArmyMatt said:
well, they did do a series about Rome...

Yeah, but everyone knows that the sequel New Rome was better than the first one

ArmyMatt · Jun 1, 2019

E.C. said:
Yeah, but everyone knows that the sequel New Rome was better than the first one

doing one about Third Rome would make a darn fine Trilogy

Toolbelt · Jun 1, 2019

ArmyMatt said:
doing one about Third Rome would make a darn fine Trilogy

That would fringe on fiction though.

ArmyMatt · Jun 1, 2019

Toolbelt said:
That would fringe on fiction though.

sorry, how so?

A Shield of Turquoise · Jun 3, 2019

"Third Rome" was more like an aspiration, an ideological myth than a real description of what was happening in Russia. It probably did more harm than good. It fed into the apocalyptic fervor of the Old Believer schismatics when their Tsar fell (in their view) to heresy. The Bolshevik revolution quelled the idea, though a handful of people dream about a return to Tsarism.

ArmyMatt · Jun 3, 2019

A Shield of Turquoise said:
"Third Rome" was more like an aspiration, an ideological myth than a real description of what was happening in Russia. It probably did more harm than good. It fed into the apocalyptic fervor of the Old Believer schismatics when their Tsar fell (in their view) to heresy. The Bolshevik revolution quelled the idea, though a handful of people dream about a return to Tsarism.

it was actually affirmed by Patriarch Jeremias of Constantinople

A Shield of Turquoise · Jun 3, 2019

Even if that's true, I'm not sure why that would hold any weight. In any case the Russian church more or less repudiated the idea themselves in 1666 when they rejected the Tale of the White Cowl- which, by the way, assumes the authenticity of the Donation of Constantine.

ArmyMatt · Jun 3, 2019

A Shield of Turquoise said:
Even if that's true, I'm not sure why that would hold any weight. In any case the Russian church more or less repudiated the idea themselves in 1666 when they rejected the Tale of the White Cowl- which, by the way, assumes the authenticity of the Donation of Constantine.

well the ones insisting that there is no such thing as Moscow as Third Rome today is Constantinople, when they were one of the first to agree to that title.

plus the Royal Family in Russia married into the Byzantine Royal family.

and how does 1666 factor in at all with Moscow being Third Rome?

OCA and GOA in communion or not?

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