Did the event of 1948 Israel fulfill any Bible prophecy?

mkgal1 · May 31, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
Do you believe that the seventh angel has sounded?

Yes.

OldWiseGuy said:
Do you believe that the 'seven churches' also represent the church through the ages until the end?

No. I believe the seven churches were just what John addressed them as - the seven churches in Asia Minor at the time. Up until - I think, IIRC - two hundred years ago or so, most of these churches still existed as Orthodox churches.

Map of Asia Minor in John's day:

keras · May 31, 2019

mkgal1 said:
Some insight I've come across about the Day of the Lord (which - in the NT - is used in 1 Thessalonians 5:2; 2 Thessalonians 2; Acts 2:20; 1 Corinthians 1:8 ; 1 Corinthians 5:5; 2 Corinthians 1:14; and 2 Peter 3:10 - not Revelation) But, really, this term is used mostly in the Old Testament:

Not in Revelation?
Revelation 6:12-17....for the great Day of their wrath has come and who can stand?
The great and terrible Day of the fiery wrath of God and Jesus, is the next prophesied event we can expect. It will reset our civilization, like God did in Noah's time.
We should all know about it and be prepared for it.

It's a shame that you don't see what God has planned for these end times.
As for thinking that Jesus is King over the earth now and making me out to be an unbeliever of Jesus' authority, its time for you to get a reality check on how the world is spinning toward disaster.
Jesus will take up His reign when He Returns. Before that much must happen before that and some won't be pretty, Zechariah 14:1-2 for example.

parousia70 · May 31, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
You may take the high road if you wish.

Sure.
I can’t help but be curious, however, how any professed Christian who believes the apostles taught their flocks in error, can assert that ANY teaching of the apostles is true and correct?

OldWiseGuy · May 31, 2019

mkgal1 said:
I only see two ages spoken of in the NT - "this present age" and "the age to come" (which was spoken of/written of prior to 70 A.D.). I believe we're already in "the age to come", which was future for the NT authors.

The "church age" is a term given by scholars to the time period of the early church through the present time.

OldWiseGuy · May 31, 2019

parousia70 said:
Sure.
I can’t help but be curious, however, how any professed Christian who believes the apostles taught their flocks in error, can assert that ANY teaching of the apostles is true and correct?

You are assuming that I am in error, not the apostles. Your belief regarding Revelation is a minority view.

mkgal1 · May 31, 2019

keras said:
Not in Revelation?
Revelation 6:12-17....for the great Day of their wrath has come and who can stand?

It was being argued that Revelation's theme is "The Day of the Lord". While I agree that there's a connection to "Day of the Lord" and "the great day of their wrath has come" - I still don't agree that is support that is Revelation's theme (or that it's completely accurate to say that the same term is being used).

Revelation 6:17 Lexicon: for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"

1 Corinthians 1:8 Lexicon: who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

LittleLambofJesus · May 31, 2019

keras said:
Not in Revelation?
Revelation 6:12-17....for the great Day of their wrath has come and who can stand?
The great and terrible Day of the fiery wrath of God and Jesus, is the next prophesied event we can expect. It will reset our civilization, like God did in Noah's time. We should all know about it and be prepared for it.
It's a shame that you don't see what God has planned for these end times.
As for thinking that Jesus is King over the earth now and making me out to be an unbeliever of Jesus' authority, its time for you to get a reality check on how the world is spinning toward disaster.
Jesus will take up His reign when He Returns. Before that much must happen before that and some won't be pretty, Zechariah 14:1-2 for example.

It's a shame the 1st century Jews hadn't planned on 70ad happening as prophecied by Jesus.......
Only now in hindsight, can the Jews of today look back at that "day of the Lord" and exclaim what the centurion did at the Cross:

Mat 27:54
So when the centurion and those with him, who were guarding Jesus, saw the earthquake and the things that had happened, they feared greatly, saying, “Truly this was the Son of God!”

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matthew 24:7

Ezekiel 38:19
"And in MY jealously, in fire of rage of ME I speak, if not in that day, shall become a great earthquake<7494> on ground<127> of Israel"

Luke 21:11
“And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven.
===========================
Matthew 17:5 Still of-Him speaking, behold! a cloud, luminous, upon-shadows them. And behold!, a voice out of the cloud, saying, `This is the Son of Me, the Beloved, in whom I delight, be ye hearing Him!".

And read the Jewish/Hebrew book of Revelation:

Revelation 2:18 And to the messenger of the assembly in Thyatira, write!
Now this is saying the Son of the GOD, the One having the eyes of Him as flame of fire, and the feet of Him as to burnished-brass.

Kindgdom Bible Studies Revelation Series

The church in Thyatira has a longer message delivered to it from Jesus Christ than any of the seven churches, although it is interesting to note that the church there is the smallest of the seven, and the city of Thyatira is the smallest of the seven cities..
================================================

Captivity and sword Luke 21:24 Revelation 13:10

Jeremiah 15:2
“And it shall be, if they say to you, ‘Where should we go?' then you shall tell them, ‘Thus says the LORD:
“Such as are for death, to death;
And such as are for the sword, to the sword;
And such as are for the famine, to the famine;
And such as are for the captivity, to the captivity.” '

Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
[Deuteronomy 28:68/Reve 11:2/13:10]

Revelation 13:10
If any to-captivity into captivity is going away.
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance and the faith of the Saints

OldWiseGuy · May 31, 2019

mkgal1 said:
It was being argued that Revelation's theme is "The Day of the Lord". While I agree that there's a connection to "Day of the Lord" and "the great day of their wrath has come" - I still don't agree that is support that is Revelation's theme (or that it's completely accurate to say that the same term is being used).

Revelation 6:17 Lexicon: for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"

John was projected into the future, in the spirit. That's why he speaks of events in the present tense.

mkgal1 · May 31, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
You are assuming that I am in error, not the apostles. Your belief regarding Revelation is a minority view.

It's not a minority view. Maybe in the U.S. (outside of liturgical churches) but not in Classical Christianity.

And......are you suggesting you are more accurate in your understanding than the apostles (it seems like you're making a comparison of your understanding vs the apostle's - who is right/who is wrong)? I don't wish to assume, but that seems like a lot of hubris to me.

mkgal1 · May 31, 2019

Keras said:
It's a shame that you don't see what God has planned for these end times.

It's a shame that so many miss what God has already completed.....just as He promised (with amazing timing).

mkgal1 · May 31, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
John was projected into the future, in the spirit. That's why he speaks of events in the present tense.

True....but it was more like four-seven years into the future - not 2000+ years into the future.

mkgal1 · May 31, 2019

keras said:
As for thinking that Jesus is King over the earth now and making me out to be an unbeliever of Jesus' authority, its time for you to get a reality check on how the world is spinning toward disaster.
Jesus will take up His reign when He Returns. Before that much must happen before that and some won't be pretty, Zechariah 14:1-2 for example.

You're only making me more appreciative of my "optimistic" theology of amillenialism/realized eschatology.

mkgal1 · May 31, 2019

If I had to put a theme or plot to the Revelation - I'd say it is the "unsealing of Daniel's prophecy" (because it was time) and the Glory of the Lord.

keras · May 31, 2019

mkgal1 said:
You're only making me more appreciative of my "optimistic" theology of amillenialism/realized eschatology.

Optimism won't help you when the sudden and unexpected Day of the Lord's fiery wrath strikes.
We have over 100 unfulfilled prophesies about that forthcoming Day. Why ignore them? Joel 2:30-2, Luke 21:25-27, +

keras · May 31, 2019

mkgal1 said:
True....but it was more like four-seven years into the future - not 2000+ years into the future.

But it is plain even to a child, that what Revelation prophesies, had not yet happened.
With the exception of Revelation 1 to 6, up to verse 11.

mkgal1 · May 31, 2019

keras said:
Optimism won't help you when the sudden and unexpected Day of the Lord's fiery wrath strikes.
We have over 100 unfulfilled prophesies about that forthcoming Day. Why ignore them? Joel 2:30-2, Luke 21:25-27, +

I assure you - it's not a blind rose-glasses kind of optimism. I'm basing my hope on what God has shown me through His already fulfilled acts (that He promised us).

keras said:
But it is plain even to a child, that what Revelation prophesies, had not yet happened.
With the exception of Revelation 1 to 6, up to verse 11.

When one looks with literal eyes, maybe it's "plain".....but you may be waiting a LOOOOONG time for things to work out the way you've painted them in your mind.

OldWiseGuy · May 31, 2019

mkgal1 said:
It's not a minority view. Maybe in the U.S. (outside of liturgical churches) but not in Classical Christianity.

And......are you suggesting you are more accurate in your understanding than the apostles (it seems like you're making a comparison of your understanding vs the apostle's - who is right/who is wrong)? I don't wish to assume, but that seems like a lot of hubris to me.

You've taken my comment on one of John's statements and projected it onto all the writings of the disciples. Not very honest.

OldWiseGuy · May 31, 2019

mkgal1 said:
True....but it was more like four-seven years into the future - not 2000+ years into the future.

Do you believe that all the events that John foresaw occurred 4-7 years after he wrote? If so we have been wandering around for 2000 years without a prophetic vision.

And more to the point, do you believe that Jesus is ruling over the world at this time? Because if this is what his rule is going to be going forward we are in deep trouble.

LittleLambofJesus · May 31, 2019

keras said:
But it is plain even to a child, that what Revelation prophesies, had not yet happened.
With the exception of Revelation 1 to 6, up to verse 11.

OldWiseGuy said:
Do you believe that all the events that John foresaw occurred 4-7 years after he wrote? And moreover, do you believe he actually understood what he was seeing considering that the prophecies in Daniel were sealed until the end time?

And more to the point, do you believe that Jesus is ruling over the world at this time? Because if this is what his rule is going to be going forward we are in deep trouble.

Both of you make me feel blessed I am a preterist. The Jews of today would also be of that view, IF they would read Revelation. They have no conception of a 2nd coming of Jesus, as they are still waiting for their own Messiah to appear the first time. [Christians however that Jesus did come a 2nd time, but for vengeance and wrath on 1st century Jerusalem.

Why Jews Don't Believe in Jesus

Messiah's Qualifications
Messiah is a prophet, a scholar and a pious king. Jesus made a prediction that "The time is fulfilled, the kingdom of God is at hand." (Mark 1:15)
That was 2000 years ago, has the kingdom of God come? Do you call the holocaust, Pol Pot and Stalin a world in which the kingdom of God has come? Jesus was not a great scholar - one of the requirements of the Messiah. Was Jesus a king? He was not anointed as king by a prophet (as was the rule in Jewish kings), he was not appointed by any judicial body as a leader and he did not rule over the Jewish people nor was he accepted by them. He was arrested, tortured and killed by the Romans like a common criminal. He had no army or government. The answer to my question is an obvious, "no..........................
==============================
According to Luke 21:31 the KoG would appear AFTER the destruction of the Jew's carnal kingdom, the OC Temple and Priesthood 70AD

Luke 21:31 Kingdom of God comes

Luke 19:11 Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately.

"DAYS OF VENGEANCE" Isaiah 61:2 and Luke 21:22 Revelation
"DAYS OF VENGEANCE" Isaiah 61:2 and Luke 21:22 Revelation

Isaiah 61:2
To proclaim the year of the good pleasure of Yahweh,
And the day of vengeance<5359> of our 'Elohiym, To comfort all mourners.

Luke 4:
17 the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. Unrolling it, He found the place where it was written:
21 and He began by saying,
“Today this Scripture is fulfilled<4137> in your hearing.”

Luke 21:
22 That days of vengeance<1557> these are, of the to be fulfilled<4130> all the having been written
23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
For there will be great Distress in the land and Wrath<3709> upon this people.

Revelation 19:2 “For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication;
and He has avenged <1556> on her the blood of His servants shed by her.”

OldWiseGuy · May 31, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Both of you make me feel blessed I am a preterist. The Jews of today would also be of that view, IF they would read Revelation. They have no conception of a 2nd coming of Jesus, as they are still waiting for their own Messiah to appear the first time. [Christians however that Jesus did come a 2nd time, but for vengeance and wrath on 1st century Jerusalem.

Why Jews Don't Believe in Jesus

Messiah's Qualifications
Messiah is a prophet, a scholar and a pious king. Jesus made a prediction that "The time is fulfilled, the kingdom of God is at hand." (Mark 1:15)
That was 2000 years ago, has the kingdom of God come? Do you call the holocaust, Pol Pot and Stalin a world in which the kingdom of God has come? Jesus was not a great scholar - one of the requirements of the Messiah. Was Jesus a king? He was not anointed as king by a prophet (as was the rule in Jewish kings), he was not appointed by any judicial body as a leader and he did not rule over the Jewish people nor was he accepted by them. He was arrested, tortured and killed by the Romans like a common criminal. He had no army or government. The answer to my question is an obvious, "no..........................
==============================
According to Luke 21:31 the KoG would appear AFTER the destruction of the Jew's carnal kingdom, the OC Temple and Priesthood 70AD

Luke 21:31 Kingdom of God comes

Luke 19:11 Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately.

"DAYS OF VENGEANCE" Isaiah 61:2 and Luke 21:22 Revelation
"DAYS OF VENGEANCE" Isaiah 61:2 and Luke 21:22 Revelation

Isaiah 61:2
To proclaim the year of the good pleasure of Yahweh,
And the day of vengeance<5359> of our 'Elohiym, To comfort all mourners.

Luke 4:
17 the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. Unrolling it, He found the place where it was written:
21 and He began by saying,
“Today this Scripture is fulfilled<4137> in your hearing.”

Luke 21:
22 That days of vengeance<1557> these are, of the to be fulfilled<4130> all the having been written
23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
For there will be great Distress in the land and Wrath<3709> upon this people.

Revelation 19:2 “For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication;
and He has avenged <1556> on her the blood of His servants shed by her.”

Is there any historical evidence that the events in Matthew 24: 30-31 have occurred? This would have been a pretty big deal.

30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Did the event of 1948 Israel fulfill any Bible prophecy?

Did event of Israel 1948 fulfill any Bible prophecy?

No

Yes

I don't know

Other

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

Wake me when it's soup.

Wake me when it's soup.

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Wake me when it's soup.

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Wake me when it's soup.

Wake me when it's soup.

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Wake me when it's soup.

Similar threads