For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is

Job 33:6 · May 31, 2019

lifepsyop said:
Exodus 20:11

This post is directed at professing Christians who claim that a plain, straightforward reading of Genesis (6 days of creation, worldwide flood, etc.) is some kind of metaphorical or symbolic story, not to be taken literally, as actual events..

Jesus Christ says he is the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. If anyone is an authority on the history of the world, it is Him.
He was there from the beginning of creation.
Jesus is The Word made flesh.
Jesus testified to the flood of Noah as a warning of the judgment to come. (Luke 17:26)

Remember, the flood of Noah is an account containing specifics on times and dates (In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month...) With details like this, we are clearly not reading some kind of metaphorical story or parable. It's almost as if God is showing us a giant flashing neon sign that this was a real event. Why can't the professing Christian simply believe it?

The entire account of Jesus Christ is intimately intertwined with the whole Bible, from Genesis to Revelation. He IS the word.

Theistic Evolution is a surrender/compromise of the clear word of God in order to conform to man's creation story... I'm sure some Christians actually believe the evolutionary narrative, and some I'm also sure just want to have a foot in both camps. They want Jesus, but they're also afraid of looking foolish to the world, so they compromise on the word, without really understanding how much it undermines the rest of scripture. What does that do to one's faith? And the faith of others? For other people to see you both believing and not believing. ("Maybe we don't really have to be worried about the judgment of God... it's not like a lot of this stuff really happened... Maybe sin isn't even real....") I can only imagine how many souls have slipped away... what a tempting pathway that compromise leaves open, to subtract any parts of scripture that we aren't comfortable with.

And how many would-be believers have turned away in doubt, because so many professing Christians themselves are teaching that the Bible is a collection of stories that didn't really happen? What kind of message does this send to the world, about how little faith you have in what God said he did? Why should anyone believe God's words, if even his supposed representatives don't?

Is the story of Jesus simply a moral lesson about sacrificing and being a good person? Or was he really the Son of God, who died on the cross for our sins, and was raised from the dead? Did this stuff really happen or not?

I shudder to think of standing before God one day and confessing to him that I taught people all sorts of things in his clear word was fake. That is a terrifying thought. And why did we do it? What was in our heart? Did we really believe the compromise? Or was social acceptance in the world more important than faith in the Word?

1 Timothy 6:19-20

Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

Science is not a matter of faith. Belief in Jesus (at least as God) is. The best of scientists do not let faith determine their view of the physical world, rather only study of the physical world, can clarify on what the physical world is.

And in that study, if there is no evidence for a global flood, and if there is evidence contrary to a global flood, then it is what it is.

It has nothing to do with trying to compromise with secular society. It has nothing to do with anyone's feelings. It really doesn't have anything to do with whether or not Jesus is God either.

It is simply the truth of physical reality.

Nobody ever debated over whether the sun was made of hydrogen and helium, just because other people had a belief that it was made of ice cream. The same goes for a global flood. Whether or not a global flood occurred isn't a really up for debate no more than any other well understood scientific topic.

The only difference is that people don't have faith in a sun made of ice cream, but people do have faith in a global flood.

Regardless, people's faith isn't grounds for putting something up for debate, whether it be the sun's composition, the Earth's composition, or any other topic of science.

JerseyChristianSuperstar · Jun 1, 2019

lifepsyop said:
Exodus 20:11

This post is directed at professing Christians who claim that a plain, straightforward reading of Genesis (6 days of creation, worldwide flood, etc.) is some kind of metaphorical or symbolic story, not to be taken literally, as actual events..

Jesus Christ says he is the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. If anyone is an authority on the history of the world, it is Him.
He was there from the beginning of creation.
Jesus is The Word made flesh.
Jesus testified to the flood of Noah as a warning of the judgment to come. (Luke 17:26)

Remember, the flood of Noah is an account containing specifics on times and dates (In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month...) With details like this, we are clearly not reading some kind of metaphorical story or parable. It's almost as if God is showing us a giant flashing neon sign that this was a real event. Why can't the professing Christian simply believe it?

The entire account of Jesus Christ is intimately intertwined with the whole Bible, from Genesis to Revelation. He IS the word.

Theistic Evolution is a surrender/compromise of the clear word of God in order to conform to man's creation story... I'm sure some Christians actually believe the evolutionary narrative, and some I'm also sure just want to have a foot in both camps. They want Jesus, but they're also afraid of looking foolish to the world, so they compromise on the word, without really understanding how much it undermines the rest of scripture. What does that do to one's faith? And the faith of others? For other people to see you both believing and not believing. ("Maybe we don't really have to be worried about the judgment of God... it's not like a lot of this stuff really happened... Maybe sin isn't even real....") I can only imagine how many souls have slipped away... what a tempting pathway that compromise leaves open, to subtract any parts of scripture that we aren't comfortable with.

And how many would-be believers have turned away in doubt, because so many professing Christians themselves are teaching that the Bible is a collection of stories that didn't really happen? What kind of message does this send to the world, about how little faith you have in what God said he did? Why should anyone believe God's words, if even his supposed representatives don't?

Is the story of Jesus simply a moral lesson about sacrificing and being a good person? Or was he really the Son of God, who died on the cross for our sins, and was raised from the dead? Did this stuff really happen or not?

I shudder to think of standing before God one day and confessing to him that I taught people all sorts of things in his clear word was fake. That is a terrifying thought. And why did we do it? What was in our heart? Did we really believe the compromise? Or was social acceptance in the world more important than faith in the Word?

1 Timothy 6:19-20

Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

Amen, I am a six-day creationist because of this, among other things, including Jesus mentions Abel as being a real person, the style is historical literature, not poetry.

NeedyFollower · Jun 1, 2019

lifepsyop said:
Exodus 20:11

This post is directed at professing Christians who claim that a plain, straightforward reading of Genesis (6 days of creation, worldwide flood, etc.) is some kind of metaphorical or symbolic story, not to be taken literally, as actual events..

Jesus Christ says he is the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. If anyone is an authority on the history of the world, it is Him.
He was there from the beginning of creation.
Jesus is The Word made flesh.
Jesus testified to the flood of Noah as a warning of the judgment to come. (Luke 17:26)

Remember, the flood of Noah is an account containing specifics on times and dates (In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month...) With details like this, we are clearly not reading some kind of metaphorical story or parable. It's almost as if God is showing us a giant flashing neon sign that this was a real event. Why can't the professing Christian simply believe it?

The entire account of Jesus Christ is intimately intertwined with the whole Bible, from Genesis to Revelation. He IS the word.

Theistic Evolution is a surrender/compromise of the clear word of God in order to conform to man's creation story... I'm sure some Christians actually believe the evolutionary narrative, and some I'm also sure just want to have a foot in both camps. They want Jesus, but they're also afraid of looking foolish to the world, so they compromise on the word, without really understanding how much it undermines the rest of scripture. What does that do to one's faith? And the faith of others? For other people to see you both believing and not believing. ("Maybe we don't really have to be worried about the judgment of God... it's not like a lot of this stuff really happened... Maybe sin isn't even real....") I can only imagine how many souls have slipped away... what a tempting pathway that compromise leaves open, to subtract any parts of scripture that we aren't comfortable with.

And how many would-be believers have turned away in doubt, because so many professing Christians themselves are teaching that the Bible is a collection of stories that didn't really happen? What kind of message does this send to the world, about how little faith you have in what God said he did? Why should anyone believe God's words, if even his supposed representatives don't?

Is the story of Jesus simply a moral lesson about sacrificing and being a good person? Or was he really the Son of God, who died on the cross for our sins, and was raised from the dead? Did this stuff really happen or not?

I shudder to think of standing before God one day and confessing to him that I taught people all sorts of things in his clear word was fake. That is a terrifying thought. And why did we do it? What was in our heart? Did we really believe the compromise? Or was social acceptance in the world more important than faith in the Word?

1 Timothy 6:19-20

Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

Is the bible literal and allegorical ? I believe it is for I see many christians still eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and it always brings death . Do not eat every "fruit"that someone hands you just because it is pleasing to the eyes and makes one wise . In other words ..do not be wise in your own eyes and lean not to your own understandings . The difficulty in eating from the wrong tree and not knowing it ? It contains no grace ...no mercy ..no love , compassion and absolutely no humility ...just knowledge of good and evil .
Men still blame their wives rather than loving them and accepting their own faults in not being the spiritual leader . Are there things we don't understand ? Yep .
It is not lost on me that only two kinds of people go to the Noah's Ark replica near Cincinnati , Oh ...those who already believe and therefore needless spend many hundred's of thousands of dollars a year on "christian vacations " , overeating at every cracker barrel on the way . And the second group are unbelievers who come to mock . Do the creators and promoters of this christian entertainment park believe in a literal bible . Yep . Does it keep them from being in error ? Nope .
The Jews believed in a literal Bible and crucified Christ for they did not know Him . Jesus told them , " Search the scriptures for in them you think you have life and they testify of me . "
I do not concern myself with things too high for me as David said in Psalms . I believe creation was created by God's Word that became flesh and dwelt among man . How does not concern me but the why humbles me for I was such a lousy sinner . Do not lose sight of the why and become embroiled in the how . The why brings a man to repentance ..not controversies of the how .

lifepsyop · Jun 1, 2019

KomatiiteBIF said:
Science is not a matter of faith. Belief in Jesus (at least as God) is. The best of scientists do not let faith determine their view of the physical world, rather only study of the physical world, can clarify on what the physical world is.

And in that study, if there is no evidence for a global flood, and if there is evidence contrary to a global flood, then it is what it is.

It has nothing to do with trying to compromise with secular society. It has nothing to do with anyone's feelings. It really doesn't have anything to do with whether or not Jesus is God either.

It is simply the truth of physical reality.

All you've said is that you put the theories of man over God's word.

You take your "truth of physical reality" from men who have been wrong about everything over and over and over again. A couple centuries ago, Spontaneous Generation was "the truth of physical reality".... that complex animals could spawn fully formed out of the earth.... less than a century ago, the geologic community embraced the now overturned beliefs in strict uniformitarianism. This too was the "truth of physical reality" ... They would have scoffed at the kinds of past catastrophes that scientists accept today...

And yet you're willing to throw God's word in the trash because it contradicts these theories.

KomatiiteBIF said:
Nobody ever debated over whether the sun was made of hydrogen and helium, just because other people had a belief that it was made of ice cream. The same goes for a global flood. Whether or not a global flood occurred isn't a really up for debate no more than any other well understood scientific topic.

So then Jesus was not raised from the dead? Don't you know that such a resurrection is scientifically impossible and also not up for debate? "It is simply the truth of physical reality," as you said, right?

And we can't trust Jesus Christ's own testimony about the flood because men of the world claim it has been disproven?

"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. " - Matthew 24:36-39

Must Christians really be like the scoffers written of in Peter?

2 Peter 3:5-6

For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water.

Job 33:6 · Jun 1, 2019

"You take your "truth of physical reality" from men who have been wrong about everything over and over and over again."

Being a geologist myself, I know that I do not take truth from other people, but rather I take my knowledge directly from God's creation.

lifepsyop · Jun 1, 2019

KomatiiteBIF said:
"You take your "truth of physical reality" from men who have been wrong about everything over and over and over again."

Being a geologist myself, I know that I do not take truth from other people, but rather I take my knowledge directly from God's creation.

It's called leaning on your own understanding rather than God's.

How could you be wrong? You are such an expert, you've studied these subjects so intensely, surely you know better than the creator of the universe who told us he made everything in 6 days. It's not like you and other men could be misinterpreting history, that's just impossible.

klutedavid · Jun 1, 2019

lifepsyop said:
Then what do you believe? Did the accounts in Genesis happen as plainly written or not? Please share.

How do you read the following from Genesis; is the tree a literal tree?

Genesis 3:3-6
But from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.’” The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die! For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

Job 33:6 · Jun 1, 2019

lifepsyop said:
It's called leaning on your own understanding rather than God's.

How could you be wrong? You are such an expert, you've studied these subjects so intensely, surely you know better than the creator of the universe who told us he made everything in 6 days. It's not like you and other men could be misinterpreting history, that's just impossible.

If it is a sin, trusting in what I see
There is nothing wrong with leaning on your own understanding, with respect to things that are self evident. For example, a marshmallow is soft, and a rock is hard.

I trust my own judgement with these matters, as they are as true as anything could be. A rock is a direct creation of the Lord, as is earth. And I can count on direct observation to give the utmost clarity in and of God's creation.

One could argue that perhaps Satan makes rocks simply "appear" hard. I suppose this could be true.

lifepsyop said:
It's called leaning on your own understanding rather than God's.

How could you be wrong? You are such an expert, you've studied these subjects so intensely, surely you know better than the creator of the universe who told us he made everything in 6 days. It's not like you and other men could be misinterpreting history, that's just impossible.

If it is a sin trusting in what I see with my own eyes, then I am as guilty as they come.

Laureate · Jun 1, 2019

lifepsyop said:
Exodus 20:11

This post is directed at professing Christians who claim that a plain, straightforward reading of Genesis (6 days of creation, worldwide flood, etc.) is some kind of metaphorical or symbolic story, not to be taken literally, as actual events..

Jesus Christ says he is the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. If anyone is an authority on the history of the world, it is Him.
He was there from the beginning of creation.
Jesus is The Word made flesh.
Jesus testified to the flood of Noah as a warning of the judgment to come. (Luke 17:26)

Remember, the flood of Noah is an account containing specifics on times and dates (In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month...) With details like this, we are clearly not reading some kind of metaphorical story or parable. It's almost as if God is showing us a giant flashing neon sign that this was a real event. Why can't the professing Christian simply believe it?

The entire account of Jesus Christ is intimately intertwined with the whole Bible, from Genesis to Revelation. He IS the word.

Theistic Evolution is a surrender/compromise of the clear word of God in order to conform to man's creation story... I'm sure some Christians actually believe the evolutionary narrative, and some I'm also sure just want to have a foot in both camps. They want Jesus, but they're also afraid of looking foolish to the world, so they compromise on the word, without really understanding how much it undermines the rest of scripture. What does that do to one's faith? And the faith of others? For other people to see you both believing and not believing. ("Maybe we don't really have to be worried about the judgment of God... it's not like a lot of this stuff really happened... Maybe sin isn't even real....") I can only imagine how many souls have slipped away... what a tempting pathway that compromise leaves open, to subtract any parts of scripture that we aren't comfortable with.

And how many would-be believers have turned away in doubt, because so many professing Christians themselves are teaching that the Bible is a collection of stories that didn't really happen? What kind of message does this send to the world, about how little faith you have in what God said he did? Why should anyone believe God's words, if even his supposed representatives don't?

Is the story of Jesus simply a moral lesson about sacrificing and being a good person? Or was he really the Son of God, who died on the cross for our sins, and was raised from the dead? Did this stuff really happen or not?

I shudder to think of standing before God one day and confessing to him that I taught people all sorts of things in his clear word was fake. That is a terrifying thought. And why did we do it? What was in our heart? Did we really believe the compromise? Or was social acceptance in the world more important than faith in the Word?

1 Timothy 6:19-20

Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

You do realize that passage is not calling תורה Science false, but is making a reference toward false תורה Science?

Is not a day as a thousand years to Alôhâyîm? Then it would be an equally unbiblically founded gesture to say that they were literal 24hr days which the scriptures do not specify.

But now, all things are possible with Alôhâyîm, even those things intrinsically impossible for Him, He is able to achieve the equivalent thereof.

The carbon dating is flawed, there are enzymes that can make an object appear millions of years older than what they are.

If one cannot ascertain and declare each principle with an appropriate triangulation of two or three substantiated principles, then it is an unending debate.

lifepsyop · Jun 2, 2019

KomatiiteBIF said:
If it is a sin, trusting in what I see
There is nothing wrong with leaning on your own understanding, with respect to things that are self evident. For example, a marshmallow is soft, and a rock is hard.

Spontaneous Generation used to be "self-evident" ... Scientists "proved" over and over again with empirical experiments that complex animals could spawn from non-living material. Then they realized they were misinterpreting the data. At the time, to deny Spontaneous Generation would be denying your very own eyes, yet it was ultimately untrue.

KomatiiteBIF said:
If it is a sin trusting in what I see with my own eyes, then I am as guilty as they come.

Man has followed all sorts of false doctrines based on what he erroneously thought he was seeing at the time.

Jamsie · Jun 2, 2019

lifepsyop said:
Exodus 20:11

This post is directed at professing Christians who claim that a plain, straightforward reading of Genesis (6 days of creation, worldwide flood, etc.) is some kind of metaphorical or symbolic story, not to be taken literally, as actual events..

It would seem that to one given to a sufficiently delicate(gkc) reading of Genesis a complete understanding is difficult to attain, therefore interpretations can vary. One will note that each day is of command and fiat, not of God doing but of God "speaking". It can also be understood not necessarily in consecutive days but based on commands with some details as parenthetical. Further it is interesting to note in various verses the directed commands...for example on day 3, 5, 6 the command is to matter (land, water) to "bring forth" or "produce". As someone stated what is quite clear is that in the beginning God, that is the foundational belief. So to some degree beyond that any interpretation is "leaning on one's own understanding". These thoughts are from a "plain" reading of Genesis.

lifepsyop · Jun 3, 2019

Jamsie said:
It would seem that to one given to a sufficiently delicate(gkc) reading of Genesis a complete understanding is difficult to attain, therefore interpretations can vary. One will note that each day is of command and fiat, not of God doing but of God "speaking". It can also be understood not necessarily in consecutive days but based on commands with some details as parenthetical. Further it is interesting to note in various verses the directed commands...for example on day 3, 5, 6 the command is to matter (land, water) to "bring forth" or "produce". As someone stated what is quite clear is that in the beginning God, that is the foundational belief. So to some degree beyond that any interpretation is "leaning on one's own understanding". These thoughts are from a "plain" reading of Genesis.

What is your actual position on creation so we don't have to guess? Or are you just musing?

Jamsie · Jun 3, 2019

lifepsyop said:
What is your actual position on creation so we don't have to guess? Or are you just musing?

I thought it quite clear. That the creation account gives no specific time frame, - other then command days = 6, no how as to God's chosen creative process - but that mediate creation is involved, and that there is no doubt that "In the Beginning God...".

-57 · Jun 3, 2019

KomatiiteBIF said:
And in that study, if there is no evidence for a global flood, and if there is evidence contrary to a global flood, then it is what it is.

Have you ever been to the Grand Canyon?

Seen how far east some of the sandstone exposed in the Grand Canyon go?

-57 · Jun 3, 2019

JerseyChristianSuperstar said:
Amen, I am a six-day creationist because of this, among other things, including Jesus mentions Abel as being a real person, the style is historical literature, not poetry.

There's more than that:

Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks.

Jude 1:14 It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones,

miamited · Jun 16, 2019

Lazarus Short said:
Your title announces, "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is..." Yet, though no creation account in the Bible says that God made Hell, most Christians believe it to be true. We err by disbelieving God's Word, but believing what is NOT there is also to err.

Hi LS,

It's just possible that the reason the Scriptures don't describe that God has 'made hell', is that He hasn't yet. The physical truth of hell being a place of existence doesn't come into the Scriptures until the Revelation. Jesus warns Israel to fear being cast into hell, but the physical reality of the existence of hell isn't addressed until the day of God's judgment when all of the vile and unbelieving and demonic angels are cast into it.

Just a thought to consider in your theology.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

miamited · Jun 16, 2019

Hi lifepsyop,

lifepsyop said:
This post is directed at professing Christians who claim that a plain, straightforward reading of Genesis (6 days of creation, worldwide flood, etc.) is some kind of metaphorical or symbolic story, not to be taken literally, as actual events..

Since your opening thesis doesn't involve my theology, I will just add my encouragement for what you've written.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

nolidad · Jun 17, 2019

lifepsyop said:
I shudder to think of standing before God one day and confessing to him that I taught people all sorts of things in his clear word was fake. That is a terrifying thought. And why did we do it? What was in our heart? Did we really believe the compromise? Or was social acceptance in the world more important than faith in the Word?

Y&es those works that followed those false beliefs will be burned up. But if a person is trusting in the death and Resurrection of Jesus for their sin debt, they are a believer. Like all other doctrine that runs contrary to Scripture- their growth will be stunted in whatever measure, but they are still family!

nolidad · Jun 17, 2019

miamited said:
Hi LS,

It's just possible that the reason the Scriptures don't describe that God has 'made hell', is that He hasn't yet. The physical truth of hell being a place of existence doesn't come into the Scriptures until the Revelation. Jesus warns Israel to fear being cast into hell, but the physical reality of the existence of hell isn't addressed until the day of God's judgment when all of the vile and unbelieving and demonic angels are cast into it.

Just a thought to consider in your theology.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

Well hell exists now! It is the grave/netherworld. In Jesus day it had three compartments, Abrahams Bosom/paradise, the place of torments or hell and tartarus where the angels who left heaven in Genesis 6 to have sex with human women are held awaiting final judgment.

Technically what has not been populated yet is the lake of fire! Colloquially we call it hell, but the bible makes a difference between hell and the final place of eternal torment.

nolidad · Jun 17, 2019

Rubiks said:
They can't be literal days if the sun wasn't created until the fourth day.

From our perspective no- But God knows how to measure time so if He said there was three days prior to the sun- there was! We know longer use sunrise and sunset to measure time- I am confident god never did once He created time!

For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is

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