Do Sabbath Keepers KEEP the Sabbath?

Saint Steven · May 31, 2019

1stcenturylady said:
Of course he's talking in first person - He's a Hebrew! It is a Semitic style of writing to connect with the audience who are coming out of the only thing they've known - the LAW. He had been a Pharisee so knew what he was talking about, but it doesn't mean he still was under the Law and not Spirit-filled as indeed he was.

John did the same thing in 1 John 1 using the word "we" when talking about the non-Christian Gnostics going to his church who had never repented - yet.

I KNOW I've shown this to you before. What, you have short-term memory loss? Possibly.

Compare.

Galatians 3:1-5
You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? 4 Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?

Saint Steven · May 31, 2019

1stcenturylady said:
Pretend Lord Byron is God, and you are one of the patrons at the pub. This is what you are doing.

Lord Byron, romantic poet of the early 1800’s, walked into a pub and sat down at a table by the fire. Sitting at the table next to him he overheard the heated conversation of two gentlemen discussing the meaning of a poem – one written by the poet himself. He listened with amusement as they debated over the meaning of the poem, both completely missing the point. Finally, he chimed in with the true meaning of the poem, introducing himself as the author. Even so they stood their ground preferring their own interpretations, and both argued with Lord Byron over the meaning of the poem.

That assumes you have any idea what the author meant.

What's the point of discussing the Bible with someone who claims it doesn't mean what it clearly says?

This is the post you were replying to.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Stop speaking down to me. (belittling) This should be a collegial discussion.
And you are not the custodian of God's opinion. (you played the "God card")

God's opinion of sin? Moses was a murderer. God put him in charge.
Punishment enough, I suppose.

Maybe you didn't get the memo. We are no longer under a schoolmaster. (guardian)

Galatians 3:23-25
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

klutedavid · May 31, 2019

1stcenturylady said:
The Old Testament was our schoolmaster, and spelled out how God sees things, including sin. Did you know in the Mosaic law - the whole LAW - there was not one sacrifice for the breaking of any of the Ten Commandments? They killed the one who committed that sin of lawlessness. Get it? LAWlessness. But there was sacrifice for sins committed unintentionally. That is the difference between sins of lawlessness committed on purpose and in full knowledge, and trespasses unwittingly committed. Leviticus 5:15.

If you study the Old Testament, you can understand God's view of sin. And it is His view that matters, not yours which differs from His.

There are issues with every theology.

So if you committed sorcery or kidnapped someone you were not executed?

If you rebelled against your parents you were not executed?

If you coveted your neighbors oxen you were executed?

If you lied to someone then that meant death?

1stcenturylady · May 31, 2019

Saint Steven said:
That assumes you have any idea what the author meant.

What's the point of discussing the Bible with someone who claims it doesn't mean what it clearly says?

This is the post you were replying to.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Stop speaking down to me. (belittling) This should be a collegial discussion.
And you are not the custodian of God's opinion. (you played the "God card")

God's opinion of sin? Moses was a murderer. God put him in charge.
Punishment enough, I suppose.

Maybe you didn't get the memo. We are no longer under a schoolmaster. (guardian)

Galatians 3:23-25
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

What it clearly says in context is about the LAW. And that the law is holy but what the problem is is our sinful flesh from Adam. That is what Jesus came to repair, and He DID! But if you want to just read what is about a non-Christian who is weak in the flesh and say, hey, I can relate to this, what does that say about you? Ask yourself why you are afraid to read it in context?

I was in church, just like you, for 30 years !!! without the Spirit, and I wasn't saved. But when I finally truly repented and Jesus filled me with His Spirit, that old weakness became strong, because it wasn't me anymore, it was God in me.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

1stcenturylady · May 31, 2019

klutedavid said:
There are issues with every theology.

So if you committed sorcery or kidnapped someone you were not executed?

If you rebelled against your parents you were not executed?

If you coveted your neighbors oxen you were executed?

If you lied to someone then that meant death?

What do you think?

The first two, yes, they were killed.

The last two, who can say it is that obvious that there would be corporal punishment. They can be hidden. But God knows. The point is there was no sacrifice to cover those sins.

klutedavid · May 31, 2019

1stcenturylady said:
What do you think?

The first two, yes, they were killed.

The last two, who can say it is that obvious that there would be corporal punishment. They can be hidden. But God knows. The point is there was no sacrifice to cover those sins.

Was there a sacrifice to cover sorcery?

Saint Steven · Jun 1, 2019

1stcenturylady said:
What it clearly says in context is about the LAW. And that the law is holy but what the problem is is our sinful flesh from Adam. That is what Jesus came to repair, and He DID! But if you want to just read what is about a non-Christian who is weak in the flesh and say, hey, I can relate to this, what does that say about you? Ask yourself why you are afraid to read it in context?

I was in church, just like you, for 30 years !!! without the Spirit, and I wasn't saved. But when I finally truly repented and Jesus filled me with His Spirit, that old weakness became strong, because it wasn't me anymore, it was God in me.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

So, not only do we have different definitions of what "sin" is, we also define "context" differently.

It seems that some have a special pair of tinted glasses for Bible reading. Ones that put things in the "right" context to fit their doctrines. I call that "proof-texting". Making the Bible fit our personal view. I'm happy to let the Bible speak for itself. It says what it means and means what it says.

1stcenturylady · Jun 1, 2019

klutedavid said:
Was there a sacrifice to cover sorcery?

No, you already asked that and I said they killed them.

1stcenturylady · Jun 1, 2019

Saint Steven said:
So, not only do we have different definitions of what "sin" is, we also define "context" differently.

It seems that some have a special pair of tinted glasses for Bible reading. Ones that put things in the "right" context to fit their doctrines. I call that "proof-texting". Making the Bible fit our personal view. I'm happy to let the Bible speak for itself. It says what it means and means what it says.

You started at Romans 7:14, but the context is broader than that narrow view of someone under the law before Christ. You want to apply it to yourself, when I'm afraid for you and want you to fix this.

For CONTEXT, a good rule of thumb for any controversial verse is 20 verses before and 20 verses after. That is not my rule, just common sense and what I've heard teachers say. My rule is read the whole book in one sitting. Now that's context!

Saint Steven · Jun 1, 2019

1stcenturylady said:
You started at Romans 7:14, but the context is broader than that narrow view of someone under the law before Christ. You want to apply it to yourself, when I'm afraid for you and want you to fix this.

For CONTEXT, a good rule of thumb for any controversial verse is 20 verses before and 20 verses after. That is not my rule, just common sense and what I've heard teachers say. My rule is read the whole book in one sitting. Now that's context!

I know what context is. But I'm not going to post a whole chapter when the point I am making is found in verses fourteen through twenty.

Even verse fourteen makes it obvious that he is talking about himself.

Romans 7:14
We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.

1stcenturylady · Jun 1, 2019

Saint Steven said:
I know what context is. But I'm not going to post a whole chapter when the point I am making is found in verses fourteen through twenty.

Even verse fourteen makes it obvious that he is talking about himself.

Romans 7:14
We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.

Don't you see that he would be saying Jesus has not freed him from sin if he is still a slave to sin? He would not be going to heaven or abiding in the house forever. Only those who Jesus frees indeed and ultimately will abide in the house forever. John 8:34-36. If you ever do read Romans 7:14-20 in context, you will see that Paul is backtracking to what it was like to live under the law without Christ. He even says, who can save me, and then gives the answer - Jesus.

I've tried very hard for you to see, but you have your mind made up and refuse to learn what Paul meant, so don't let the truth get in your way of your fantasy. If you want to die in your sins, I can't stop you. If we are allowed to remember earth, I'll miss those that make up their own religion.

I'm done. This makes me very sad that you stubbornly want to remain ignorant. But I can't force you to study for yourself. Personally, I can't relate to your mindset and laziness at all. I want to know what God means in every verse of the Bible, and won't stop until I know the whole Word of God. And that is to know what each book is about in context.

Saint Steven · Jun 1, 2019

1stcenturylady said:
Don't you see that he would be saying Jesus has not freed him from sin if he is still a slave to sin? He would not be going to heaven or abiding in the house forever. Only those who Jesus frees indeed and ultimately will abide in the house forever. John 8:34-36. If you ever do read Romans 7:14-20 in context, you will see that Paul is backtracking to what it was like to live under the law without Christ. He even says, who can save me, and then gives the answer - Jesus.

I've tried very hard for you to see, but you have your mind made up and refuse to learn what Paul meant, so don't let the truth get in your way of your fantasy. If you want to die in your sins, I can't stop you. If we are allowed to remember earth, I'll miss those that make up their own religion.

I'm done. This makes me very sad that you stubbornly want to remain ignorant. But I can't force you to study for yourself. Personally, I can't relate to your mindset and laziness at all. I want to know what God means in every verse of the Bible, and won't stop until I know the whole Word of God. And that is to know what each book is about in context.

It's not about us. It's about Him.
I don't have to wonder every day whether the atonement is still working on my behalf.
The price has been paid, once and for all. Done deal.

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.

Romans 4:4-5
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

Romans 5:6-8
You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

2 Corinthians 5:18-20
All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.

1stcenturylady · Jun 1, 2019

Saint Steven said:
It's not about us. It's about Him.
I don't have to wonder every day whether the atonement is still working on my behalf.
The price has been paid, once and for all. Done deal.

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.

Romans 4:4-5
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

Romans 5:6-8
You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

2 Corinthians 5:18-20
All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.

So you are a Universalist? Good luck with that. You speak as one who does not know the whole Word of God, but then you would have to love context, instead of your picking and choosing as you regularly do. You better start studying to show yourself approved. 2 Timothy 2:15. You're not getting any younger. And neither am I. I can't nag you forever to get off the couch.

mmksparbud · Jun 1, 2019

Saint Steven said:
It's not about us. It's about Him.
I don't have to wonder every day whether the atonement is still working on my behalf.
The price has been paid, once and for all. Done deal.

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.

Romans 4:4-5
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

Romans 5:6-8
You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

2 Corinthians 5:18-20
All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.

It is only through the Holy Spirit that we are able to be true followers of God. Yes--He paid the price, it is not a license to sin--and you then must define sin. It is through the Holy Spirit that we gain the daily victory over self.

Mat_7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat_7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

The fruits of the Holy Spirit are

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Eph 5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
Eph 5:16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
Eph 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
Php 1:9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
Php 1:10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;
Php 1:11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

1stcenturylady · Jun 1, 2019

mmksparbud said:
It is only through the Holy Spirit that we are able to be true followers of God. Yes--He paid the price, it is not a license to sin--and you then must define sin. It is through the Holy Spirit that we gain the daily victory over self.

Mat_7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat_7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

The fruits of the Holy Spirit are

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Eph 5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
Eph 5:16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
Eph 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
Php 1:9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
Php 1:10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;
Php 1:11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Open your heart and listen:
Paul doesn't separate the 10 Commandments from the ceremonial laws when he talks of us not being under the law. He even calls the 10C, the law of sin and death, and in another place, the ministry of death. The whole law was to help deal with our sin nature, both in showing us our sin, and covering it with sacrifices. This system was only to be in place until Jesus came to deal once and for all with the sin nature we inherited from Adam's sin. Jesus took away our sin, and in Him there is no sin. How? By baptizing us with fire that purges the sin nature and makes us born again of His sinless Spirit. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ has freed us from the law of sin and death. When this happens as it did to me on February 9, 1977, the whole desire to sin evaporates, and the love we have for God is totally focused on pleasing Him, every moment of every day, which naturally extends to loving our neighbors and fellow man. We enter into His permanent rest of trusting God, that the Jews never accomplished, even with their Sabbath day. The new day set aside is TODAY which is constantly fixed on moment by moment. When tomorrow comes it will still be TODAY. Jesus gives us that rest and freedom from sin by giving us His grace - the power of God in us that doesn't sin.

1stcenturylady · Jun 1, 2019

Saint Steven said:
According to you.
Your claims about Romans seven are completely unfounded. IMHO
The Apostle is obviously talking about himself. (see red highlight)

Romans 7:14-20, 25
We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if

I
do what

I
do not want to do,

I
agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer

I
myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For

I
know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.

I
have the desire to do what is good, but

I
cannot carry it out. 19 For

I
do not do the good

I
want to do, but the evil

I
do not want to do—this

I

keep on doing. 20 Now if

I
do what

I
do not want to do, it is no longer

I
who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. ...
25 … So then,

I
myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

Colossians 3:5
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.

I have another one from chapter 7 I'd like you to explain. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Seeing as Paul was born under the law, then this is prior to his being born. He was never alive without the law growing up. So was Paul there with Moses when mankind received the law on Mount Sinai? Explain that if you dare.

The "I" that Paul is using is a substitute for MANKIND. You are reading Scripture with the maturity of a child. Trust of a child is one thing and is good, but maturity of a child is bad.

mmksparbud · Jun 1, 2019

and Moses wrote them down on oparchment

1stcenturylady said:
Open your heart and listen:
Paul doesn't separate the 10 Commandments from the ceremonial laws when he talks of us not being under the law. He even calls the 10C, the law of sin and death, and in another place, the ministry of death. The whole law was to help deal with our sin nature, both in showing us our sin, and covering it with sacrifices. This system was only to be in place until Jesus came to deal once and for all with the sin nature we inherited from Adam's sin. Jesus took away our sin, and in Him there is no sin. How? By baptizing us with fire that purges the sin nature and makes us born again of His sinless Spirit. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ has freed us from the law of sin and death. When this happens as it did to me on February 9, 1977, the whole desire to sin evaporates, and the love we have for God is totally focused on pleasing Him, every moment of every day, which naturally extends to loving our neighbors and fellow man. We enter into His permanent rest of trusting God, that the Jews never accomplished, even with their Sabbath day. The new day set aside is TODAY which is constantly fixed on moment by moment. When tomorrow comes it will still be TODAY. Jesus gives us that rest and freedom from sin by giving us His grace - the power of God in us that doesn't sin.

It was God that separated them. The 10 were placed inside the Ark. The Ark is a representation of the Ark in heaven. The ceremonial laws were placed outside the Ark. The 10 were written with the hand of God Himself, on stone. The ceremonial laws were dictated by God and written by Moses on parchment. The 10 were permanent, the ceremonial only until Jesus paid the price as the Sacrificial Lamb. Jesus is now our High Priest--the whole of Hebrews is about that.

Rev_11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

His testament is the 10 as was in the earthly Ark.

And the 4th will still be observed in the New Earth.

sa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Saint Steven · Jun 2, 2019

1stcenturylady said:
So you are a Universalist? Good luck with that. You speak as one who does not know the whole Word of God, but then you would have to love context, instead of your picking and choosing as you regularly do. You better start studying to show yourself approved. 2 Timothy 2:15. You're not getting any younger. And neither am I. I can't nag you forever to get off the couch.

No, I don't believe that everyone was saved against their will by the vicarious atonement. (Universalism) One has to receive it to be saved. Salvation is for believers.

I still don't understand your belittling attitude toward me. And the inferences that I am lazy and ignorant. Or that I somehow need to work hard to win God's approval.

Saint Steven · Jun 2, 2019

1stcenturylady said:
I have another one from chapter 7 I'd like you to explain. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Seeing as Paul was born under the law, then this is prior to his being born. He was never alive without the law growing up. So was Paul there with Moses when mankind received the law on Mount Sinai? Explain that if you dare.

The "I" that Paul is using is a substitute for MANKIND. You are reading Scripture with the maturity of a child. Trust of a child is one thing and is good, but maturity of a child is bad.

If I dare? Get over yourself. (more belittling and superiority)
I'm asking you again to stop talking down to me. (thus elevating yourself)

Some seem to want to make Bible knowledge an esoteric domain of the elite. A cryptic code that "unlocks truth" for the supposed "super-spiritual" insiders. Knowledge unavailable except to the initiated, the inner circle.

You lecture me about context but then demonstrate that you have no idea how it works. Isolating verse nine to claim it is talking about a time before Paul was born. Seriously?

Romans 7:7-10
What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This whole passage hinges on the bold statement above. "... I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law." (the whole law)

He then picks an example from the whole law to illustrate. (the commandment against coveting from the TCs, a subset of the whole law) The whole law informed him about what coveting was. But this was dangerous information. The commandment about coveting brought condemnation and spiritual death. He was spiritually alive prior to this realization (and others) from the whole law. The law, though intending to bring spiritual life, rather brought condemnation and spiritual death.

1stcenturylady · Jun 2, 2019

Saint Steven said:
If I dare? Get over yourself. (more belittling and superiority)
I'm asking you again to stop talking down to me. (thus elevating yourself)

Some seem to want to make Bible knowledge an esoteric domain of the elite. A cryptic code that "unlocks truth" for the supposed "super-spiritual" insiders. Knowledge unavailable except to the initiated, the inner circle.

You lecture me about context but then demonstrate that you have no idea how it works. Isolating verse nine to claim it is talking about a time before Paul was born. Seriously?

Romans 7:7-10
What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This whole passage hinges on the bold statement above. "... I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law." (the whole law)

He then picks an example from the whole law to illustrate. (the commandment against coveting from the TCs, a subset of the whole law) The whole law informed him about what coveting was. But this was dangerous information. The commandment about coveting brought condemnation and spiritual death. He was spiritually alive prior to this realization (and others) from the whole law. The law, though intending to bring spiritual life, rather brought condemnation and spiritual death.

Exactly! It is about the law. But, more importantly it is about our old sin nature, the reason for the struggle of 14-20 in the first place which Jesus took away by putting His Spirit in us. THAT is being born again of the Spirit. Those with Christ's Spirit in them NO LONGER HAVE THIS STRUGGLE, therefore Romans 7:14-20 DOES NOT APPLY TO US!

You say with your mouth you are not under the law, then turn around and say you still have the old nature. That is a dichotomy. You can't have both at the same time.

You either have the old nature, are not born again of the Spirit, thus still under the law.

Or you are born again of the SPIRIT, NOT under the law and walk in the Spirit, thus by faith.

The test of which you are is the struggle of 14-20. Those not born again have the struggle with the old flesh, and can never please God Romans 8:8. Those born again of the Spirit do not have that old struggle and our minds are free from those old desires to sin. Romans 8:9.

My belittling is in love, just as Paul belittled the Corinthians to search their hearts and repent and change. They did and by the next letter Paul acknowledges that they were made sorrowful to help them, not destroy them. You are my brother and I love you. I'm only trying to irk you to action.

You may just need a refreshing of the Holy Spirit. Jesus tells when that happens to go back and do the first works, meaning repenting of the SIN NATURE, which, because you truly believe you still have it needs to be repented. In other words, our repentance is not just from the sins we can recite but from the nature which produces them. Just ask Jesus to scrub your mind clean of all the past inheritance from Adam, and if you really mean it, watch what happens!

Do Sabbath Keepers KEEP the Sabbath?

You can call me Steve

You can call me Steve

Well-Known Member

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

Well-Known Member

You can call me Steve

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

You can call me Steve

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

You can call me Steve

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

Well-Known Member

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

Well-Known Member

You can call me Steve

You can call me Steve

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

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