A Christian Response to White Privilege

Daniel C · May 30, 2019

Peter J Barban said:
Much of the time, when people are accused of White Privilege, it is just a tactic to shame them into shutting up. If you can, resist shaming tactics. But White Privilege does exist. I want to show you how I have dealt with it.

Short answer: don't reject white privilege, nor be ashamed of it, just be humble and thankful for your unmerited benefits.

A generation ago when I was just out of college, I lived with a White missionary, Roy, who had ministered for 40 years in Asia. Then, I took a 3-month mission trip to the Philippines to visit Roy's former contacts and disciples. I was basically Roy's ambassador.

Filipinos, as a group, showed great respect to "rich, white Americans" during the regime of President Marcos. When I visited and lived with Roy's people, they treated me with the respect due to Roy himself. One guy even traveled across the country to confess his failures to me.

A group of evangelists that Roy had trained organized a month-long evangelistic tour of mountain villages and invited me. Every village we visited treated me like a VIP and we even experienced a major revival at the final mining town. The townspeople offered to give me a house/church and make me their permanent pastor.

That is real White Privilege.

But I knew the hidden side that the local people could not see. All of those Filipino ministers were more mature and better trained than I was. I made some major mistakes that others covered up. In fact, when I lived with Roy and his family for 6 months of training, Roy didn't really like or respect me very much (and for good reason). I'm sure that he loved the Filipino ministers more than he loved me. When the revival came, I didn't know how or why. But I did know that one day the revival would end and I would be alone, trying to be a spiritual leader without a clue. So, I declined to be a minister in the Philippines and went back to America to get more spiritual development and missionary training.

My lessons:
-People treated me well based on my appearance and connections, not because I earned anything.
-I went there for a purpose and could not be silent even if others were more worthy than I.
-I survived by the grace of others and in turn gave as much grace as I could.
-I rejected being placed on a dangerously high pedestal.

Sure, let's not reject it immediately.

First you need to identify the problem before you can find the solution.

So define what white privilege is and how it works, so it can be resolved.

RDKirk · May 30, 2019

Peter J Barban said:
Just to see some somersaults:
From the New York Times via Instapundit
Women’s March on Washington Opens Contentious Dialogues About Race :

"Many thousands of women are expected to converge on the nation’s capital for the Women’s March on Washington the day after Donald J. Trump’s inauguration. Jennifer Willis no longer plans to be one of them.

Ms. Willis, a 50-year-old wedding minister from South Carolina, had looked forward to taking her daughters to the march. Then she read a post on the Facebook page for the march that made her feel unwelcome because she is white.

The post, written by a black activist from Brooklyn who is a march volunteer, advised “white allies” to listen more and talk less. It also chided those who, it said, were only now waking up to racism because of the election.

“You don’t just get to join because now you’re scared, too,” read the post. “I was born scared.”

Stung by the tone, Ms. Willis canceled her trip.

“This is a women’s march,” she said. “We’re supposed to be allies in equal pay, marriage, adoption. Why is it now about, ‘White women don’t understand black women’?”

...

Ms. Rose said in an interview that the intention of the post was not to weed people out but rather to make them understand that they had a lot of learning to do.

“I needed them to understand that they don’t just get to join the march and not check their privilege constantly,” she said.

That phrase — check your privilege — exasperates Ms. Willis. She asked a reporter: “Can you please tell me what that means?”
------------------------------------------------------------
So "Check your priviledge" means shup up, your contribution is as an equal is unwelcome.

If Willis abandoned the march because of a negative post she read in Facebook, it sounds to me that she wasn't serious about the cause in the first place.

Clearly, she would not have made it as a Freedom Rider.

Belk · May 30, 2019

Peter J Barban said:
As I said before, some people refuse to learn.

This is the debate forum. If you are unable to explain your position this might not be the correct forum for you.

Shiloh Raven · May 30, 2019

Pot meet kettle. The initial complaint is against the phrase "check your privilege," as a way to shame people into silence, but then the OP later posts a video using the terms SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIORS and RACISTS. The terms Social Justice Warrior and racists are both used to shame people into silence because they have the nerve to address racism against minorities and discrimination against LGBT.

Social justice warrior (SJW) is a pejorative term for an individual who promotes socially progressive views, including feminism, civil rights, and multiculturalism, as well as identity politics.

Social justice warrior - Wikipedia

Pavel Mosko · May 30, 2019

Peter J Barban said:
Short answer: don't reject white privilege, nor be ashamed of it, just be humble and thankful for your unmerited benefits.

The problem much of "White privilege" comes from past social engineering, especially "the War on poverty" of the Johnson administration. Specifically much of what we call "white privilege" is simply the fact that many are born into 2 parent families, while many blacks are born in families that only have a mother. And much of that actually comes from past policies of welfare and other social programs that financially incentivized father's being absent, that moved black families from poor neighborhoods where they had extended family that helped raise their kids, church friends etc. into high rise low cost apartments/ section 8 housing that was often miles away from family and friends.

And now people want to do more social engineering to correct the problem.... Come to think of it, The social engineering of Democrats like Woodrow Wilson is largely the reason why racism in the past was such a problem in this country with them forcing segregated bathrooms etc. on businesses, the military etc.

Pommer · May 30, 2019

Peter J Barban said:
Much of the time, when people are accused of White Privilege, it is just a tactic to shame them into shutting up.

I got just this far and needed to say that if you’ve couched the topic thusly in your opening, yeah, you do not understand the concept of white privilege very well.

(On to the rest of your missive!)

RDKirk · May 30, 2019

Pavel Mosko said:
The problem much of "White privilege" comes from past social engineering, especially "the War on poverty" of the Johnson administration. Specifically much of what we call "white privilege" is simply the fact that many are born into 2 parent families, while many blacks are born in families that only have a mother. And much of that actually comes from past policies of welfare etc. that financially incentivized father's being absent, that moved black families from poor neighborhoods where they had extended family that helped raise their kids, church friends etc. into high rise low cost apartments/ section 8 housing that was often miles away from family and friends.

And now people want to do more social engineering to correct the problem.... Come to think of it, The social engineering of Democrats like Woodrow Wilson is largely the reason why racism in the past was such a problem in this country with them forcing segregated bathrooms etc. on businesses, the military etc.

No, that's not what White privilege is. White privilege may have been a factor in that acquisition, but the acquisition itself is not White privilege.

White privilege is being given the benefit of the doubt in American situations where a black person would not be given that benefit of the doubt.

There is a YouTube edition of "What Would You Do?" in which they variously had a young white guy, a similarly dressed young black guy, and then a young white blonde women each sawing the security chain off a bicycle in a park.

None of the passersby gave the young white man more than a glance, but a number of them accosted the black man, accusing him of stealing the bike.

When questioned by the television crew, one of the passersby of the white man even stated outright, "He was a white guy so he probably wasn't stealing it."

Interestingly, some people actually offered to help the blonde saw off the chain, so there is such a thing as "pretty girl privilege" as well.

White privilege is a one-on-one, situational decision. "The benefit of the doubt" given to people just because they are white (and often people who aren't white grant privilege to white people) works for getting jobs, getting loans, not getting arrested, not being accosted "while being black."

In many cases, it's not so much a matter of "white privilege" these days as a matter of "black impediment."

Pommer · May 30, 2019

carp614 said:
If I think someone should invest in a 401K, should I say nothing because I need to check my privilege?

Assuming that simply everyone has the means to obtain a 401k is an indication of your privilege.

Some years ago I had a delightful Thanksgiving in Madison WI.. As the hostess was putting up the leftovers, she made sure to “save the mashed potatoes”; I asked aloud, “who saves mashed potatoes!?”
I was sternly but gently reminded that the household was “poor”, and that my comment was boorishly ignorant of their circumstances.

iluvatar5150 · May 30, 2019

Danielwright2311 said:
There is no white privilege, if there was, i would own my own hotels, and not manage them.

That's asinine. The subject of "privilege" doesn't mean everybody is a millionaire.

Danielwright2311 said:
I'm white, where is my privilege ?

Danielwright2311 said:
I worked hard for my position, very hard for a long time, so, no, no one questions it, they know how hard i work.

Were you or your parents ever denied loans, educations, jobs, housing, or access to public services because of the color of your/their skin?

No?

Then you're the product of at least some degree of privilege.

carp614 said:
So the advice, which is objectively good advice, is somehow less valuable because of who I am and where I come from?

No, it's not less valuable, but it might be based on some faulty assumptions and/or fail to account for certain complications.

Kate30 said:
I really don’t like the term white previlege simply because there was only ever one race. There is cultural previlege which every nation does have. There is also empire privilege and you may take your choice of what empires you choose. Be that Egyptian, Babylon, Persian, Greek or the British commonwealth just to name a few. So it really has nothing to do with white previlege. Often it just depends on the culture ruling at the time.

Right now, in this country and in much of the world, white people rule things.

Sparagmos · May 30, 2019

Danielwright2311 said:
I'm white, where is my privilege ?

You have never been followed in a store because of your skin color. You likely have never had to wonder if you didn’t get a promotion because of your skin color. You do not have to combat negative stereotypes due to your race. You have never experienced racial housing or loan discrimination. People do not cross the street to avoid you because they are afraid of you simply because of your skin color. You have never had a hard time hailing a cab because of your skin color. The majority of lead actors and superheroes have your skin color.

The bottom line is, whatever your situation, it would be even worse if you were black or Latino, because in addition to whatever challenges you have in life, you would be dealing with systemic racism.

Sparagmos · May 30, 2019

carp614 said:
So I have an opinion here, but honestly it's such a third rail. Is it even possible to have a productive conversation about this?

I won the genetic lottery being born in the US, to educated parents who did some nurturing and set a half decent example of what a contributing member of society looks like. I'm so intensely grateful to the Lord for the embarrassment of riches that is my life and all of the opportunities I have been given.

So I guess that makes me the beneficiary of a lifetime of "White Privilege".

So when someone tells me to check my privilege what am I supposed to do with that. (Incidentally, no one has said that to me). If I think someone should invest in a 401K, should I say nothing because I need to check my privilege? So the advice, which is objectively good advice, is somehow less valuable because of who I am and where I come from?

This seems equivalent to saying only the sinless can talk about the Gospel. Is it not the same as calling anyone who calls sin a sin a hypocrite?

If you were asked to check your privilege when suggesting some one invest in a 401K my guess is that the person was asking you to consider the fact that being able to invest in a 401k is a luxury for many folks, or not even something they are offered at work. Or that even if they could invest a tiny amount, it doesn’t address their current financial problems.

I work in a field where I interact a lot with low income folks. One of my coworkers, whose husband makes a lot of money, was having her house renovated. She would complain in front of minimum wage workers what an inconvenience the renovation process was. She cared a lot for these people, yet was unaware of how privileged she was to be able to renovate her home, and how it made ppl feel when she complained about it. That would be another example.

Sparagmos · May 30, 2019

98cwitr said:
Did they show you such curiosities because of the color of your skin, or based on your demeanor, culture, and past experiences with American missionaries?

The only fair sociological test to arrive at such a conclusion would be to have a non-white from the same organization, same country, with the same demeanor and cultural aptitude discriminated against because they were non-white. Then you can prove white privilege, which then simply proves the existence of racial discrimination among other cultures outside of the developed world (which I'm sure there is, and maybe even to an exaggerated extent).

Maybe it has nothing to do with race or ethnicity, but culture? While it is easy to falsely correlate race and culture, it is inaccurate and only perpetuates racial stereotypes when in fact it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the culture to which a person prescribes.

Studies with these kind of controls have found racial bias in lending, hiring, and the ability to get a ride:

Uber and Lyft Are Failing Black Riders

Minorities Who 'Whiten' Job Resumes Get More Interviews

For people of color, banks are shutting the door to homeownership

98cwitr · May 30, 2019

Sparagmos said:
Studies with these kind of controls have found racial bias in lending, hiring, and the ability to get a ride:

Uber and Lyft Are Failing Black Riders

Minorities Who 'Whiten' Job Resumes Get More Interviews

For people of color, banks are shutting the door to homeownership

Huge shift to the topic of discussion and your examples are red herrings. I am asking for specifics from the OP in regards to his experience and the experience of Roy.

If you'd like to discuss those things, I am more than willing to do so in a different thread.

Shiloh Raven · May 30, 2019

iluvatar5150 said:
Right now, in this country and in much of the world, white people rule things.

The racial demographics in America are swiftly changing and there will be a lot more diversity.

It's Official: The U.S. is Becoming a Minority-Majority Nation

The US will become ‘minority white’ in 2045, Census projects

White Americans to become minority by 2044 thanks to ageing population

Needless to say, this growing swift in racial demographics is making some white people very nervous.

How White People React to Losing Their Majority Status in America

White fear of demographic change is a powerful psychological force

Status threat, not economic hardship, explains the 2016 presidential vote

Fear of Becoming Minorities Sustains White Conservatism, Study Suggests

Fear of becoming a racial minority makes white Americans more conservative: study

The IbanezerScrooge · May 30, 2019

I witnessed what I attributed to white privilege just this weekend at the beach.

We arrived and setup our tent. There was a group of African-American teens/young 20's camped just down from us playing music a little too loudly for my taste, but I'm not one to confront people over petty things. However this one woman who just seemed to be walking along the beach (we'd seen her pass by already) said something to them about the music. There was an exchange of words, nothing too heated and it resulted in the guys turning down their music. Shortly after they packed up and left. Shortly after that a group of white teens and what I assumed were their parents came and setup on the other side of us. They too began playing music loudly (slightly louder than the other guys, but that could have been due to their seemingly closer proximity to us). Interestingly it was the same genre of music: rap. We saw the woman who complained to the African-American walk by at least three more times with nary a glance at the white teens and their music.

Now, it's perfectly possible that the woman decided she just didn't feel like another confrontation over the same issue, or any other number of reasons. But I noted that she just didn't even seem to acknowledge the white group at all.

Sparagmos · May 30, 2019

98cwitr said:
Huge shift to the topic of discussion and your examples are red herrings. I am asking for specifics from the OP in regards to his experience and the experience of Roy.

If you'd like to discuss those things, I am more than willing to do so in a different thread.

Studies demonstrating preference for whites in hiring and loans aren’t related to the topic of white privilege? They certainly are to those of us who regularly discuss and teach the idea of white privelege...

USincognito · May 30, 2019

Danielwright2311 said:
There is no white privilege, if there was, i would own my own hotels, and not manage them.

The part in blue tells us you don't know what white privilege is, so your assertion in red can be rejected.

Shimokita · May 30, 2019

Peter J Barban said:
Much of the time, when people are accused of White Privilege, it is just a tactic to shame them into shutting up. If you can, resist shaming tactics. But White Privilege does exist. I want to show you how I have dealt with it.

Short answer: don't reject white privilege, nor be ashamed of it, just be humble and thankful for your unmerited benefits.

A generation ago when I was just out of college, I lived with a White missionary, Roy, who had ministered for 40 years in Asia. Then, I took a 3-month mission trip to the Philippines to visit Roy's former contacts and disciples. I was basically Roy's ambassador.

Filipinos, as a group, showed great respect to "rich, white Americans" during the regime of President Marcos. When I visited and lived with Roy's people, they treated me with the respect due to Roy himself. One guy even traveled across the country to confess his failures to me.

A group of evangelists that Roy had trained organized a month-long evangelistic tour of mountain villages and invited me. Every village we visited treated me like a VIP and we even experienced a major revival at the final mining town. The townspeople offered to give me a house/church and make me their permanent pastor.

That is real White Privilege.

But I knew the hidden side that the local people could not see. All of those Filipino ministers were more mature and better trained than I was. I made some major mistakes that others covered up. In fact, when I lived with Roy and his family for 6 months of training, Roy didn't really like or respect me very much (and for good reason). I'm sure that he loved the Filipino ministers more than he loved me. When the revival came, I didn't know how or why. But I did know that one day the revival would end and I would be alone, trying to be a spiritual leader without a clue. So, I declined to be a minister in the Philippines and went back to America to get more spiritual development and missionary training.

My lessons:
-People treated me well based on my appearance and connections, not because I earned anything.
-I went there for a purpose and could not be silent even if others were more worthy than I.
-I survived by the grace of others and in turn gave as much grace as I could.
-I rejected being placed on a dangerously high pedestal.

I am privileged to be black, I dunno about the rest of y’all.

USincognito · May 30, 2019

Danielwright2311 said:
I worked hard for my position, very hard for a long time, so, no, no one questions it, they know how hard i work.

Guests don't know your work history. For all they know you could have started that day. Here's your situation in your own context:
- You're walking down the hall and someone stops you and asks if you can send housekeeping up to their room early.
- You're walking down the hall and someone stops you and asks if you can clean their room early.

Danielwright2311 · May 30, 2019

USincognito said:
Guests don't know your work history. For all they know you could have started that day. Here's your situation in your own context:
- You're walking down the hall and someone stops you and asks if you can send housekeeping up to their room early.
- You're walking down the hall and someone stops you and asks if you can clean their room early.

I do both, as a good manager, I cater the the hotel guests, period.

In order to run a useful hotel you have to sometimes do things others do not want to do.

There is no privileged white people, just spoiled lazy white people who do not want to work for what they got.

All my staff are Indian, they live right on the Indian reservation, and they work just as hard as me, but they do not want to work the hours I work and they do not want to do the jobs I do around the hotel.

I ask them all the time, and they do not want to do them.

Its not a race issue, its a lazy issue, I'm not calling my staff lazy God forbid.

What I am doing is showing how a white man who has a business license from schooling works harder then most all the staff. And I never wanted to be the manager and sometimes wish I was not.

Any one can come here and have my position, if there willing to learn all I know, and work the hours i work and do the type of jobs I do for the money i make.

I work very hard for my position and Money, what little I do make on salary verses hours.

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