God the Son in other worlds and dealing with their sin...?

GoldenKingGaze · May 28, 2019

nolidad said:
Well what we think about he emotional makeup of bene elohim is moot. What the Bible says is what matters.

In Job the bene elohim present themselves in heaven. There were no humans in heaven!

In Genesis 6 the bene elohim came DOWN to the daughters of men! the term angels was not known till later.

soi you are saying that love is qualitatively different? Show me whee God split HIs attribute of love and gave part to man and pat to woman.

There is a difference between a father's love and a mother's and a servant's.

If Bane Eloheem interiorly was made different, a half cast with the Adamic race, may not work. Genesis 6 implies they are similar, and the hybrid was clever and strong, a tyrant.

The angels according to scripture are never given or taken in marriage.

I think in such a vast universe, God made other men and women. They can travel in craft, and have between 44-48 chromosomes in some cases. Those in Genesis 6 were malevolent. They used force.

The saints presented themselves before God, not the angels. Job 1. Bane Eloheem does not include all angels even if there is a division of them which look like God.

Men and women differ, in love. Tis straight forward. The love of a man and the love of a woman are both from God. Both are eternal qualities.

ViaCrucis · May 28, 2019

nolidad said:
Well I am a believer in ET's! They are called Cherubim, Seraphim and Angels (including the fallen ones)

They still have not actually visibly detected an actual planet outside our solar system. They deduce they are there from slight shimmers in a star or plotting a dot that crosses the plane of the star! They may be planets, they may be something else!

I do know that based on Genesis that the stars were created as signs for us! And I do agree with you in large measure. If God created life on other planets (If he created other planets) He decided to say to us--"it's nonya!"

Calling angels "ET" is probably true in the most strict definition, in that angels aren't part of earth's biosphere. But I think going that direction gets wonky. Angels are spirits, and when talking about extraterrestrial life I think we should limit that term to hypothetical, material (i.e., existing within and part of the material, observable universe), living organisms.

Also, many of the exo-planets being discovered today are being discovered by powerful telescopes observing planetary transit across its host star. Earlier on exo-planets were largely determined by observing very minute gravitational disturbances on a star, but our methods today are such that we can notice transits across stars indicating orbiting bodies. So, yes, we have made visual detection of extra solar planets.

-CryptoLutheran

DennisTate · May 28, 2019

GoldenKingGaze said:
I am a bit sceptical about Rick Joyner Dennis, what is it about his work that has you sure of him? Thanks for this link.

I began to study near death experience accounts back in 1990.........
I eventually concluded that if the NDEr was telling the truth..... rather than making the whole thing up AND ... if the near death experiencer had a Life Review...... then possibly several promises from Messiah Yeshua - Jesus may be being kept right in front of me as I read these accounts???!

John 16:25 "These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father."

If nothing else.... NDE accounts have a simplicity and clarity to them that is impressive....... and much of what Rick Joyner writes can be compared with them on at least some levels.

Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"

The Life Review of the NDE accounts could well be This Judgment???????????

Jhn 5:22

“For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son,"

Former Skeptic Howard Storm would not be dogmatic.... but he expressed his honest opinion that he felt that the being of light who judged him was Messiah Yeshua - Jesus. I think he was probably correct.

If you read the section.... The Judgment Seat of Christ in Rick Joyner's book The Final Quest.... you will notice astonishing similarities to the NDE Life Review........ in a sentence..... Rick Joyner and all who he met there had came to a place of rather extreme HUMILITY!!!!!!!!!!

nolidad · May 29, 2019

ViaCrucis said:
Calling angels "ET" is probably true in the most strict definition, in that angels aren't part of earth's biosphere. But I think going that direction gets wonky. Angels are spirits, and when talking about extraterrestrial life I think we should limit that term to hypothetical, material (i.e., existing within and part of the material, observable universe), living organisms.

Also, many of the exo-planets being discovered today are being discovered by powerful telescopes observing planetary transit across its host star. Earlier on exo-planets were largely determined by observing very minute gravitational disturbances on a star, but our methods today are such that we can notice transits across stars indicating orbiting bodies. So, yes, we have made visual detection of extra solar planets.

-CryptoLutheran

I agree calling spirits ET's is wonky. I say that when the conversation turns that was as a humorous way of saying no extraterrestrial life has been empirically proven in the ET sort of way.

Whilke many of those object that transit suns may be planets- they may be other things as well. They just cannot verify. They could be massive meteors that orbit due to gravitational pull.

The fact that evolutionary astronomers, go opn to reprot these "exoplanets" size, weight, composition, and possible surface appearance makes me very skeptical of their finds.

GoldenKingGaze · May 29, 2019

How can Satan who was once Lucifer, enter the assembly of the sons of God, and look like a son of man?

nolidad · May 29, 2019

GoldenKingGaze said:
How can Satan who was once Lucifer, enter the assembly of the sons of God, and look like a son of man?

He is still allowed! He will not be kicked out of access to heaven until mid way through the Tribulation period.

Revelation 12 King James Version (KJV)
12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

So if God allows it, who are we to question what He allows?

GoldenKingGaze · May 29, 2019

nolidad said:
He is still allowed! He will not be kicked out of access to heaven until mid way through the Tribulation period.

Revelation 12 King James Version (KJV)
12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

So if God allows it, who are we to question what He allows?

My question to you is about how he looks, not about his entry.

ViaCrucis · May 29, 2019

nolidad said:
The fact that evolutionary astronomers, go opn to reprot these "exoplanets" size, weight, composition, and possible surface appearance makes me very skeptical of their finds.

Appearance of these planets is largely speculative and left to artistic speculation. But there are methods by which scientists can make informed and educated estimations about the mass, size, and even possible composition of these worlds.

This NASA article has some information on how this is accomplished: Measuring the Mass of a Mars-size Exoplanet

-CryptoLutheran

nolidad · May 29, 2019

ViaCrucis said:
Appearance of these planets is largely speculative and left to artistic speculation. But there are methods by which scientists can make informed and educated estimations about the mass, size, and even possible composition of these worlds.

This NASA article has some information on how this is accomplished: Measuring the Mass of a Mars-size Exoplanet

-CryptoLutheran

Thanks for the article. I am even more skeptical now after reading this. Why? Because all the data they publish is based on a whole lot of assumptions that cannot be verified empirically. I am not saying they are wrong, but I am saying that they are making assumptions for t heir baseline fats which have not been empirically tested. I do not think they kept any telescope focused on a distant star long enough to measure when a planet makes a circuit around that star( like the 365 days we orbit our sun), top establish speed and even distance from the star.

Too m any conclusions based on too many educated assumptions for me to say yes to.

nolidad · May 29, 2019

GoldenKingGaze said:
My question to you is about how he looks, not about his entry.

Well how he looks is unknown! We do know this from his description in Ezekiel:

12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

All the talk of Satan being gnarled, ugly and deformed are opinion and not biblical standards! And the bible calls him a son of God which is an angel.

In genesis 6 the sons of God took wives, and produced a race of super beings that were renowned! This would not be humans.

I am convinced that the mythologies of all pagan religions with their demi-gods like hercules and mercury and apollo and such like are corruptions of the truth of the events described in the beginning of Genesis 6.

GoldenKingGaze · May 29, 2019

nolidad said:
Well how he looks is unknown! We do know this from his description in Ezekiel:

12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

All the talk of Satan being gnarled, ugly and deformed are opinion and not biblical standards! And the bible calls him a son of God which is an angel.

In genesis 6 the sons of God took wives, and produced a race of super beings that were renowned! This would not be humans.

I am convinced that the mythologies of all pagan religions with their demi-gods like hercules and mercury and apollo and such like are corruptions of the truth of the events described in the beginning of Genesis 6.

My point before was that Satan appeared with the sons of God, but was not in appearance himself, a son of God. Satan and all other angels are not both in God's image and likeness. Some may be in his image. Hebrews states that no angel is ever called a son. None sit on a throne beside God and understand God with the mind of Christ. Our future is with the mind of Christ and judging angels. Like them then we will be glorious and never marry again.

The angels in Genesis 6 only watched on, as creatures with bodies similar to ours violated women and produced tyrants. The angels don't look like us and don't marry, the anointed Cherub who became Satan may never have looked like a man. When we think of demons, we are led to believe by some teachers that they were disembodied angels of death. Do any angels of death still possess a body? Satan appearing before God with bane Eloheem was not a bane Eloheem. The angels in Genesis 6 were not bane Eloheem.

Being called Son of the Morning, does not equal calling him Son of God.

GoldenKingGaze · May 30, 2019

Some exoplanets are close by, around the nearest constellation, Alpha Proxima and Alpha Centauri, red stars with planets, expected to contain liquid water.

And there are the stories from the USAF in which Dr Charles Hall encountered human like aliens working with the force. And maybe that is how the USAF devised the TR3B Astra.

GoldenKingGaze · Apr 29, 2020

I think ET has essential and inseparable connotations of the sci fi nature. So Star Wars and Star Trek and Dr Who, even HG Wells ideas. No god universe ideas. Or Spinoza's god.

So I regret if I have referred to worldly terms like ET.

In Job coming before the Son who framed the worlds was Satan, and the sons of God. Satan describes himself as walking the Earth.

The sons of God would be people like Adam and Job. Satan having supplanted Adam is in the assembly out of place, instead of Adam, who once was the head of our world. Job may have been were it not for the fall.

The sons of God are not angels. They probably had wives. They best be thought of as holy, spiritual, a little glorious, accomplished in obedience and yet with dust formed bodies. Maybe with no fall. Holy and close to God, maybe radiant. Not "aliens" but sons of God with honour.

nolidad · Apr 29, 2020

GoldenKingGaze said:
I think ET has essential and inseparable connotations of the sci fi nature. So Star Wars and Star Trek and Dr Who, even HG Wells ideas. No god universe ideas. Or Spinoza's god.

So I regret if I have referred to worldly terms like ET.

In Job coming before the Son who framed the worlds was Satan, and the sons of God. Satan describes himself as walking the Earth.

The sons of God would be people like Adam and Job. Satan having supplanted Adam is in the assembly out of place, instead of Adam, who once was the head of our world. Job may have been were it not for the fall.

The sons of God are not angels. They probably had wives. They best be thought of as holy, spiritual, a little glorious, accomplished in obedience and yet with dust formed bodies. Maybe with no fall. Holy and close to God, maybe radiant. Not "aliens" but sons of God with honour.

Not according to the Scriptures! The "bene Elohim" (sons of God) are mentioned only three times and they always refer to angelic beings!

Satan was the anointed Cherub before His fall! All the praise of the universe was funneled through Him to God!

They did not have wives in heaven and the ones in Genesis 6 that came down and took wives of men were banished to Tartarus awaiting the lake of fire!

GoldenKingGaze · Apr 29, 2020

nolidad said:
Not according to the Scriptures! The "bene Elohim" (sons of God) are mentioned only three times and they always refer to angelic beings!

Satan was the anointed Cherub before His fall! All the praise of the universe was funneled through Him to God!

They did not have wives in heaven and the ones in Genesis 6 that came down and took wives of men were banished to Tartarus awaiting the lake of fire!

By saying the angels were not given in marriage, I was saying they don't have a sexual reproducing nature. They may not be in God's image and likeness. Lucifer may not have ever been either.

Which quote of bane Elohim refers to angels? With authority of the Spirit of Truth not an interpreter of note.

nolidad · Apr 30, 2020

GoldenKingGaze said:
By saying the angels were not given in marriage, I was saying they don't have a sexual reproducing nature. They may not be in God's image and likeness. Lucifer may not have ever been either.

Which quote of bane Elohim refers to angels? With authority of the Spirit of Truth not an interpreter of note.

Genesis 6 King James Version (KJV)
6 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Sons of God is in contrast to men and daughters of men!

Job 1:6
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Never heard of men going to the throne of God to present themselves.

Job 2:1
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

Job 38 King James Version (KJV)
38 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

These can only be the seraph, cherub and angels!

GoldenKingGaze · May 1, 2020

nolidad said:
Genesis 6 King James Version (KJV)
6 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Sons of God is in contrast to men and daughters of men!

Job 1:6
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Never heard of men going to the throne of God to present themselves.

Job 2:1
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

Job 38 King James Version (KJV)
38 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

These can only be the seraph, cherub and angels!

I would say that is a young Earth theory. The Earth may not be the oldest world with sons of God living on it.

nolidad · May 1, 2020

GoldenKingGaze said:
I would say that is a young Earth theory. The Earth may not be the oldest world with sons of God living on it.

Well given that Gods created the ENTIRE universe approx. 6-10 K years ago that is irrelavent! The OT useage of Sons of God referred to the angelic beings and they were created between the first and third day! there is no biblical nor empirical scientific evidence that the universe is older than that or that there is older life anywhere.

GoldenKingGaze · May 2, 2020

nolidad said:
Well given that Gods created the ENTIRE universe approx. 6-10 K years ago that is irrelavent! The OT useage of Sons of God referred to the angelic beings and they were created between the first and third day! there is no biblical nor empirical scientific evidence that the universe is older than that or that there is older life anywhere.

I do not believe in a young Earth or literal six days of creation.
Genesis is not a science book, and is not intended to be interpreted literally.

Broken Fence · May 2, 2020

Greetings GoldenKingGaze,
I believe you missing a very important fact. The devil and his angels were thrown to earth and forced here. There is not sin on other planets. For all of creation groans inwardly waiting for the revelation of the sons and daughters of God. Earth is a gazingstock the rebellion of sin is on our planet.

God the Son in other worlds and dealing with their sin...?

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

Confessional Lutheran

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Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

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Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

Confessional Lutheran

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Well-Known Member

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

Well-Known Member

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

Well-Known Member

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

Well-Known Member

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

God with us!

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