Did the event of 1948 Israel fulfill any Bible prophecy?

jgr said:

You told us in post 406 "The pronoun you is collective/plural." You were right, then.

From Genesis 49:1 Hebrew:

853 [e]
’eṯ·ḵem
אֶתְכֶ֖ם
you
DirObjM | 2mp

2mp means "second person masculine plural".

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Sorry, that post was a question, not a statement. Context determines the meaning of the word.

jgr said:

Does that mean that one can become one of the Chosen People by converting to Talmudism and/or eating kosher?

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Chosen has a different meaning now.

parousia70 said:

Indeed we have.



Ok...so since Modern Jews do not follow the same religion as the pre desolation Hebrew people did... then what?

It's just Cultural and nothing else?

And as JGR asked, are you making the claim that one can become a member of "God's Chosen Remnant" simply by adopting post-Christian Jewish Culture for themselves?

All I have to do is switch to eating Kosher, buy a Menorah and VIOLA!? I'm now one of the the Chosen remnant?



Which prophesies say modern, multi-ethnic peoples, who choose to adopt post Christian Jewish Culture, fulfill anything relating to Biblical Israel?

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What is "Christian Jewish Culture"?

OldWiseGuy said:

Sorry, that post was a question, not a statement. Context determines the meaning of the word.

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The definition in the original Hebrew language determines the meaning of the word. Context does not change that.

OldWiseGuy said:

Chosen has a different meaning now.

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What is that meaning?

Copperhead said:

You perceive it that way, The Matthew passage is directed at the leadership, not the Hebrew people proper.

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Why did you ignore Matthew 27:25, where the common Jews cursed themselves and their descendants?
Anyone who makes even a little effort, can soon find out that those who call themselves Jews today, have little if any: claim to descent from Judah. I will post information on this if required.
But you and many others simply ignore the over 20 prophesies that specifically tell of the virtual demise of the House of Judah in the end times. Isaiah 22:14, +
Only a remnant will be saved; Romans 9:27

parousia70 said:

This British Israelism?:
British Israelism - Wikipedia

Who's central tenets have been refuted by evidence from modern archaeological,[3] ethnological,[4] genetic, and linguistic research.[5] ?

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The Wikipedia article is an atheistic attempt to debunk British Israelism, therefore not valid.

jgr said:

What is that meaning?

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Called into the church and chosen.

parousia70 said:

I love my neighbor as myself too, even though I recognize modern Israel is not the fulfillment on any biblical prophesy.

It is false to imply the two are mutually exclusive.

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Not necessarily. When one takes into account the level of atrocities that have been accomplished by those who claim to be Christian on those who claim to be Jewish, it can mean a lot.

That is why I stated the idea that if one doesn't agree with the modern state of Israel or those who claim to be Jewish, it might be wiser to just shut up and not go around giving philosophical ammo to those who would take things too far. We all know the effect of Martin Luther's writings and how it played out by those who took it and ran with it to the extreme of exterminating several million people who were determined to be Jewish. The Nazi's quoted Luther. The Russians liked the diabolical "Protocals of the Learned Elders of Zion" to really crank up the pogroms against the Jews. And many that call themselves Christians today and have radio and youtube venues to kick out their nonsense on and champion both of these writings. It started with ideas like they do not have any rights, to they do not have the right to live among us, eventually to they do not have the right to live.

I am not accusing you in any way of such extremism, but all ideas start from a seed. And in previous posts, you have gone far beyond any idea of Israel is not a fulfillment of prophecy to claiming that these folks are not Israel but imposters. The are interlopers laying claim to being Israel and are not. That level of diatribe is just the kind of thing that gets picked up and exploited. On the other hand, claiming that modern Israel is a fulfillment of prophecy does no harm to anyone. I don't agree with everything Israel does, but they still have a purpose in Yahweh's program.

So yes, by one's actions they could be violating the commandment to love your neighbor as yourself, and maybe not even realize it. To assist in putting one's neighbor in jeopardy is in fact evil against a neighbor. And it could lead to the situation of....

Matthew 7:21-23 (NKJV) “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!

And there is also the possibility that those who hold the position you are expounding could be wrong. Paul says very clearly the we see thru a mirror dimly. As arrogant as we like to think, we really don't have a total grasp on everything of the Lord. If folks want to play Russian Roulette with this issue, that is their choice. Like I stated before, my position has no downsides and I am playing it safe.

I guess Zechariah was right.

jgr said:

The definition in the original Hebrew language determines the meaning of the word. Context does not change that.

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The Hebrew allows for several word choices depending on the context. That's the beauty of it. For example do you really think that Eve merely "gave" Adam the fruit? There are much more accurate word choices in the Hebrew based on the narrative. Why they weren't chosen is a mystery.

OldWiseGuy said:

Called into the church and chosen.

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Yes, believing in Christ by faith for salvation, thus chosen as His elect and added to His Church, then living in continuing faith in and obedience to Him.

Impossible by any form of Jewishness.

OldWiseGuy said:

The Hebrew allows for several word choices depending on the context. That's the beauty of it. For example do you really think that Eve merely "gave" Adam the fruit? There are much more accurate word choices in the Hebrew based on the narrative. Why they weren't chosen is a mystery.

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The rules of every language, e.g. grammar and syntax, take prority and precedence over context. In Genesis 49:1, they identify the antecedent of "you" as the plural "sons", and thus dictate the selection of the plural form of "you".

Context does not change that selection.


Do you think she threw it at him?

Since it was the Holy Spirit who inspired Scripture, it was He who inspired the Hebrew word translated as "gave".

jgr said:

Since it was the Holy Spirit who inspired Scripture, it was He who inspired the Hebrew word translated as "gave".

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It seems that the Holy Spirit has inspired many different word choices in the various translations. Can you explain why the word pascha is translated Easter in Acts 12:4?

Copperhead said:

Not necessarily. When one takes into account the level of atrocities that have been accomplished by those who claim to be Christian on those who claim to be Jewish, it can mean a lot.

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If, in those examples, those "Christians" did not Hold the "Jews" as "special" peoples who were under some "special curse" from God, and simply understood them as one of the many ethnic classes in the family of man with no special benefit or curse (as I do), they probably would have been largely ignored instead of persecuted.. How many lives would have been saved over the centuries if my view were the mainstream view? Probably millions.

The Nazi's quoted Luther.

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Godwin's Rule invoked.

The Russians liked the diabolical "Protocals of the Learned Elders of Zion" to really crank up the pogroms against the Jews. And many that call themselves Christians today and have radio and youtube venues to kick out their nonsense on and champion both of these writings. It started with ideas like they do not have any rights, to they do not have the right to live among us, eventually to they do not have the right to live.

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Again, all because they are viewed by them as "special", under a "special curse". This is the hateful flip-side that is permanently affixed to the "they have a special blessing" coin.

If my view that they are NOT "special" and simply regular folk, were adopted by the mainstream, the persecution of them would disappear.

I am not accusing you in any way of such extremism, but all ideas start from a seed. And in previous posts, you have gone far beyond any idea of Israel is not a fulfillment of prophecy to claiming that these folks are not Israel but imposters. The are interlopers laying claim to being Israel and are not. That level of diatribe is just the kind of thing that gets picked up and exploited.

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The Mormons make this same claim, that THEY are the Fulfillment of "Israel" prophesy.

Would you also say it's best to believe them and not challenge their claim? That we should not call the Mormons "interlopers & impostors laying false claim to Israel" for fear of Repercussions from God if we do?
If it is true that God blesses those who bless Israel, and curses those who curse Israel, and the Mormons lay claim to the title "Israel", then we as Christians have no choice but to Bless the Mormon's and their Claim to the title of "Israel", correct?
At the very least, Blessing and affirming the Mormon's claim to be "Biblical Israel", just in case, would, as you said "put nothing about me at risk with the Lord", right?

On the other hand, claiming that modern Israel is a fulfillment of prophecy does no harm to anyone.

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Tell that to the Palestinian family who's home they've lived in for 5 generations was Just Bulldozed to make way for a "Biblically prophesied Jewish settlement", and their sons were Killed by Israelis for throwing rocks rocks at the bulldozers, or even less.
I expect they would vehemently disagree with your "Modern Israel believing they are the fulfillment of prophesy does no harm" claim.

But maybe Harm to the Palestinian people doesn't count as real harm to you, since you believe the Jews are CHOSEN BY GOD to be there, and ought to be supported in WHATEVER means they use to accomplish their will?

That, my friend, is the level of diatribe that gets picked up and exploited.

parousia70 said:

If, in those examples, those "Christians" did not Hold the "Jews" as "special" peoples who were under some "special curse" from God, and simply understood them as one of the many ethnic classes in the family of man with no special benefit or curse (as I do), they probably would have been largely ignored instead of persecuted.. How many lives would have been saved over the centuries if my view were the mainstream view? Probably millions.


Godwin's Rule invoked.



Again, all because they are viewed by them as "special", under a "special curse".
If my view that they are NOT "special" and simply regular folk, were adopted by the mainstream, the persecution of them would disappear.



The Mormons make this same claim, that THEY are the Fulfillment of "Israel" prophesy.

Would you also say it's best to believe them and not challenge their claim, that we should not call the Mormons "interlopers & impostors laying false claim to Israel" for fear of Repercussions from God if we do?


Tell that to the Palestinian family who's home they've lived in for 5 generations was Just Bulldozed to make way for a "Biblically prophesied Jewish settlement", and their sons were Killed by Israelis for throwing rocks rocks at the bulldozers, or even less.
I expect they would vehemently disagree with your "does no harm" claim.

But maybe Harm to the Palestinian people doesn't count as real harm to you, since you believe the Jews are CHOSEN BY GOD to be there, and ought to be supported in WHATEVER means they use to accomplish their will?

That, my friend, is the level of diatribe that gets picked up and exploited.

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Understand that God brought the Jews back to Palestine for the purpose of fomenting the end-time conflagration, not as the permanent homeland for them just yet.

OldWiseGuy said:

Understand that God brought the Jews back to Palestine for the purpose of fomenting the end-time conflagration, not as the permanent homeland for them just yet.

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I'll understand no such thing.

The Jews who are there today can not be said to have been "brought back", for they have no relationship to the pre-desolation Hebrews who were expelled 2 millennia ago.

They are Not related religiously, not related politically and not related genetically (beyond the fact that EVERYONE ON EARTH TODAY has Abrahamic/Jacobian DNA running through their veins.)

They are no more descended from the Biblical Hebrew peoples than you and I are.

parousia70 said:

I'll understand no such thing.

The Jews who are there today can not be said to have been "brought back", for they have no relationship to the pre-desolation Hebrews who were expelled 2 millennia ago.

They are Not related religiously, not related politically and not related genetically (beyond the fact that EVERYONE ON EARTH TODAY has Abrahamic/Jacobian DNA running through their veins.)

They are no more descended from the Biblical Hebrew peoples than you and I are.

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Someone has to be. I don't think geneticists actually know what they're looking for. God knows who is a descendant of Israel, if no one else does. Perhaps He inspired the study of British Israelism. If "not a grain (seed) will fall to earth" I have to take that as truth.

LittleLambofJesus said:

So they will be punished and exiled a 3rd time.......once by the Babylonians, the Romans and then ? Then it will be 3 strikes and outta there.........

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It seems so, but the rest of Israel won't escape either.

Ezekiel 5:3-4
"Thou shalt also take thereof a few in number, and bind them in thy skirts.
Then take of them again, and cast them into the midst of the fire, and burn them in the fire; for thereof shall a fire come forth into all the house of Israel."