Earth, then light (Big Bang), Created on Day One; Sun, Moon and Stars Created on Day Four

Creation day 1 - 4 could have been very long, even millions of, 'present day years', long.

  • This concept is allowable for a Creationist.

    Votes: 14 42.4%
  • This concept is unallowable for a Creationist

    Votes: 19 57.6%
  • The biblical definition of 'day', is one dark, light, cycle; Not 24 hours, until Day Four

    Votes: 2 6.1%

  • Total voters
    33

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The sequence of God's Creation of our universe according to God in Genesis.

1: God Creates physical earth. Creation Day One

2: Then God Creates physical light. Creation Day One.

3: God Separates physical light on earth. Light God names 'Day', Dark God names 'night'. Creation Day One.

4: Three physical light 'Days' and physical dark 'Nights' go by. Creation Day One, Creation Day Two, Creation Day Three.

5: On Creation Day Four, God Creates the sun, stars and moon, to "mark the days and years", and "to illuminate earth".

I disagree with point 1. I agree with points 2-4. In point 5, God is using the sun, moon and stars in place of His shekhinah glory to illuminate the earth. Time was still established on the first day, not the fourth. There could not have been a Big Bang or the earth would likely have been destroyed since the earth was in the universe before the sun, moon, and stars.
 
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jerry kelso

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I disagree with point 1. I agree with points 2-4. In point 5, God is using the sun, moon and stars in place of His shekhinah glory to illuminate the earth. Time was still established on the first day, not the fourth. There could not have been a Big Bang or the earth would likely have been destroyed since the earth was in the universe before the sun, moon, and stars.

sounddoctrine,

1. I agree there was no Big Bang. Genesis 1:2 was a universal flood because of judgement on Satan and his angels that disobeyed with him.
Ephesians 6:12; spiritual wickedness in high places which is different than the original Garden of Eden in Ezekiel 28.

2. Genesis 1:1 was the beginning of the original creation that agrees with the Pre-Adamite world in Ezekiel 28:15-19 that Lucifer ruled.
This is why that Satan worked through the serpent in the recreated Garden of Eden.
Hell is located in the lower parts of the earth and was prepared for the Devil and his angels Matthew 25:41 and his children who follow him. Satan’s connection with the earth.
Jerry Kelso
 
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Does everyone understand that billions of years of star formation can occur in six days, if God is using Time Dilation? It is not science, but Christians with their own points of view, who would say that billions of years of star formation cannot occur in six days on earth.

Dark to light cycles on earth, which God names 'days', are the clock for creation, which both God and Man use to time Creation. Creation Days One through Three did not yet have our sun to gauge the length of a dark to light cycle on earth, aka the twenty four hour day. Still it does not matter. If you want to use twenty four hour days for Creation Day One through Three, science still allows that billions of years of star formation can occur in six days on earth, if God is using Time Dilation, during Creation.

Earth already existing, and then then the mass of one septillion stars, popping into existence, is a massive amount of gravitational force, enough force to bring Earth up to near the speed of light, giving us Time Dilation.

Yes, definitely, billions of years of star formation, at lower velocities, can occur in six days on earth, with earth accelerated to near the speed of light.

No one on this thread is contradicting this fact, that using Time Dilation, billions of years of star formation can occur in six days on earth.
 
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jerry kelso

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Does everyone understand that billions of years of star formation can occur in six days, if God is using Time Dilation? It is not science, but Christians with their own points of view, who would say that billions of years of star formation cannot occur in six days on earth.

Dark to light cycles on earth, which God names 'days', are the clock for creation, which both God and Man use to time Creation. Creation Days One through Three did not yet have our sun to gauge the length of a dark to light cycle on earth, aka the twenty four hour day. Still it does not matter. If you want to use twenty four hour days for Creation Day One through Three, science still allows that billions of years of star formation can occur in six days on earth, if God is using Time Dilation, during Creation.

Earth already existing, and then then the mass of one septillion stars, popping into existence, is a massive amount of gravitational force, enough force to bring Earth up to near the speed of light, giving us Time Dilation.

Yes, definitely, billions of years of star formation, at lower velocities, can occur in six days on earth, with earth accelerated to near the speed of light.

No one on this thread is contradicting this fact, that using Time Dilation, billions of years of star formation can occur in six days on earth.

stevemerten,

1. The original earth was spoken into existence of things that were not made or existed.
No reason to believe in time dilation then.

2. We are not told how long between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2.
Time dilation would be possible here. This is known as the gap theory.

3. If the age of fossils etc. are right the earth could have been billions of years old before reconstruction.

4. Obviously, if theory of time dilation is correct, the question is what is the purpose for it.
Or is it just to account for the dark to light cycles which would seem to further prove a gap. Just curious, as I am not up on time dilation. Thanks Jerry Kelso
 
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3. If the age of fossils etc. are right the earth could have been billions of years old before reconstruction.

4. Obviously, if theory of time dilation is correct, the question is what is the purpose for it.

Hello Jerry,
Dinosaur bones are from outer space.

Do you think that a dinosaur bone, from 200 million years ago, still exists? They do not. Only fossils of dinosaurs exist. Fossils are made of dirt. Where did the millions of years old dirt come from, to make the dinosaur bone fossils? Outer Space.

Time Dilation is no longer a theory; instead Time Dilation is now a fact. Earth is traveling at 2.85 million miles per hour. Our GPS satellites are traveling 17000 mph faster than earth, in order to orbit earth. 17,000 miles per hour faster than earth's 2,850,000 miles per hour, does not seem all that much of a faster velocity. Still our GPS satellites need computers to compensate for Time Dilation, because elapsing physical time has slowed down at the satellites, slightly faster velocity. Wow! Right!

God Created earth. Then God created billions of years of star formation around earth, in six days on earth, to give man stars to look at. Earth, not star formation, is the clock that both God and man use to time Creation Week. God putting earth at near the speed of light velocity, makes it only days going by on earth, due to Time Dilation's slower elapsing physical time at higher velocities, while billions of years are going by, at lower velocities of star formation.

Young Earth, with only days passing by, is now traveling through space dust, which came from star formation, which happened at a slower velocity, where billions of years have gone by, in only days on earth, due to Time Dilation. Scientists dating dinosaur bones are not dating the flesh of an animal which lived on earth, they are dating space dust which was created, and aged billions of years, at a slower velocity than earth, then fell to earth, an earth that was only days old.

Can you see how Time Dilation is a handy tool for our All Powerful God to have when He wants to create billions of years of star formation around our earth, in His six Days of Creation, on earth?
 
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jerry kelso

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Hello Jerry,
Dinosaur bones are from outer space.

Do you think that a dinosaur bone, from 200 million years ago, still exists? They do not. Only fossils of dinosaurs exist. Fossils are made of dirt. Where did the millions of years old dirt come from, to make the dinosaur bone fossils? Outer Space.

Time Dilation is no longer a theory; instead Time Dilation is now a fact. Earth is traveling at 2.85 million miles per hour. Our GPS satellites are traveling 17000 mph faster than earth, in order to orbit earth. 17,000 miles per hour faster than earth's 2,850,000 miles per hour, does not seem all that much of a faster velocity. Still our GPS satellites need computers to compensate for Time Dilation, because elapsing physical time has slowed down at the satellites, slightly faster velocity. Wow! Right!

God Created earth. Then God created billions of years of star formation around earth, in six days on earth, to give man stars to look at. Earth, not star formation, is the clock that both God and man use to time Creation Week. God putting earth at near the speed of light velocity, makes it only days going by on earth, due to Time Dilation's slower elapsing physical time at higher velocities, while billions of years are going by, at lower velocities of star formation.

Young Earth, with only days passing by, is now traveling through space dust, which came from star formation, which happened at a slower velocity, where billions of years have gone by, in only days on earth, due to Time Dilation. Scientists dating dinosaur bones are not dating the flesh of an animal which lived on earth, they are dating space dust which was created, and aged billions of years, at a slower velocity than earth, then fell to earth, an earth that was only days old.

Can you see how Time Dilation is a handy tool for our All Powerful God to have when He wants to create billions of years of star formation around our earth, in His six Days of Creation, on earth?

stevenmerten,

1. Sounds like you are mixing the young earth with old earth position as a compromise in the big picture.

2. Dinosaurs from outer space doesn’t gel with fossils according to carbon data or the dinosaurs frozen in the ice.
Of course, the young earth say these were the behemoth in Job 40:17-24 which were created in Adam’s day which is a possibility.

3. There is no proof scripturally that God used time dilation in the original creation which had Lucifer ruling the earth. Do you agree with that? It doesn’t sound like it. I can only assume you are a proponent of young earth which would not agree with Hebrews 11:3. Jerry Kelso
 
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Neils Bohr
"It is meaningless to assign Reality to the universe in the absence of observation; in the intervals between measurement, quantum systems truly exist as a fuzzy mixture of all possible properties.
Hello Jerry,
Science has proven that, at the quantum, sub-atomic particle level, particles do not lock into the form of particles, unless conscious man is looking at them. Sub atomic particles are the building blocks of the universe. The concept that the universe does not exist without man (beginning with Adam) looking at it, feeling it, smelling it, hearing it, experiencing it, is very scary for atheist scientists, because it has God's Creationism written all over it. Not only does the present lock into place with sub-atomic particles, but also a past path locks into place, when man looks at them. When man is not looking at sub-atomic particles, they assume a fuzzy state of all possibilities of where a sub atomic particle could be. Neils Bohr is the 'Father of Quantum mechanics', and this is how he sees it, and how scientific proof reveals the actions of the building blocks of the universe. There are a lot of miracles from God happening at the quantum, sub atomic particle level of the universe.

When we talk about the five Days of Creation, God tells us happened before Adam opened his eyes, and locked the past of the universe into place, we are talking about a fuzzy state that never really materialized with sub atomic particles locking into physical sub atomic particles, or in other words, a reality. This is how Adam could have been created first without animals and woman, and then later created into a universe where there were, and had been animals. Our all Powerful God exists outside of physical time and the past, present and future of physical time must bend according to God's Omni-Present, Will.

I do not see Jesus telling Christians that we have to believe in your demands on your vision of creation, or He will not save you into heaven.

I do see Atheist scientists mocking God and the creation story of Genesis, and stealing a great many souls away from Jesus and eternal life, through their deception. It is these evil atheist scientists, mocking God and stealing souls, who are the target of this thread.

In this following PBS video, they explain to you how the universe does not exist without conscious man to observe it.

 
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jerry kelso

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Neils Bohr
"It is meaningless to assign Reality to the universe in the absence of observation; in the intervals between measurement, quantum systems truly exist as a fuzzy mixture of all possible properties.
Hello Jerry,
Science has proven that, at the quantum, sub-atomic particle level, particles do not lock into the form of particles, unless conscious man is looking at them. Sub atomic particles are the building blocks of the universe. The concept that the universe does not exist without man (beginning with Adam) looking at it, feeling it, smelling it, hearing it, experiencing it, is very scary for atheist scientists, because it has God's Creationism written all over it. Not only does the present lock into place with sub-atomic particles, but also a past path locks into place, when man looks at them. When man is not looking at sub-atomic particles, they assume a fuzzy state of all possibilities of where a sub atomic particle could be. Neils Bohr is the 'Father of Quantum mechanics', and this is how he sees it, and how scientific proof reveals the actions of the building blocks of the universe. There are a lot of miracles from God happening at the quantum, sub atomic particle level of the universe.

When we talk about the five Days of Creation, God tells us happened before Adam opened his eyes, and locked the past of the universe into place, we are talking about a fuzzy state that never really materialized with sub atomic particles locking into physical sub atomic particles, or in other words, a reality. This is how Adam could have been created first without animals and woman, and then later created into a universe where there were, and had been animals. Our all Powerful God exists outside of physical time and the past, present and future of physical time must bend according to God's Omni-Present, Will.

I do not see Jesus telling Christians that we have to believe in your demands on your vision of creation, or He will not save you into heaven.

I do see Atheist scientists mocking God and the creation story of Genesis, and stealing a great many souls away from Jesus and eternal life, through their deception. It is these evil atheist scientists, mocking God and stealing souls, who are the target of this thread.

In this following PBS video, they explain to you how the universe does not exist without conscious man to observe it.


stevenmerten,

1. I wasn’t actually demanding you believe my view of creation unless it is about me believing in the Bible being
inerrant and that science must agree with the word.
I never said anything or implied, nor do I believe that just because you merely have a different view of creation that you won’t go to Heaven.
People don’t go to Heaven because they don’t get saved by the blood of Jesus Christ.

2. Atheists are fools according to the Bible.
People that believe in the gap of Genesis 1:1-1:2 mostly believe in the old earth position but the Bible doesn’t say for sure. It could have been shorter.

3. Hebrews 11:3; Through Faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Psalms 33:6; By the word of the Lord were the Heaven’s made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

4. Heaven where God dwells is in the most northern part of the universe Colossians 1:16; Genesis 1:1; Proverbs 8:27; Ephesians 4:10. The Bible says Heaven is God’s throne and the earth is his footstool Isaiah 66:1.
The apostle Paul said it was the third Heaven 2 Corinthians 12:2-4.
No man can see Heaven through a telescope but it is visible in its own realm which is a reality.

5. You haven’t convinced anything except by your context which is a theory.
Do you believe in young earth? Address the Luciferian kingdom before Adam’s recreation? Give me your biblical interpretation of Genesis 1:1-26. You are not addressing anything I have said contrary to your belief.
It is like giving a pre-supposition before giving scriptural proof of the context. Thanks Jerrykelso
 
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Here is an afterthought. The earth is older than the rest of the universe, at least 6,000 years old. Before time, in the beginning, we can't measure age, so to our knowledge according to Scripture, we can't know exactly how old the earth is, but it was in the universal space before the sun, moon, and stars. A Big Bang would have destroyed it.

Hello SD,
Does everyone on earth die when an atomic bomb goes off on earth? No they do not. Why not? It is all about how close to the explosion you position yourself.

The big bang is also known as the great expansion. You are wrong to think that there was this huge never ending area of empty space that the big bang explodes out into. Empty space explodes out into existence right along with matter and energy, when the mass of one septillion stars suddenly pops into existence, on the head of needle.

As the gravitational mass of one septillion stars is accelerating earth, to light speed, toward the big bang, you have empty space exploding into existence, outwardly, toward earth, placing itself between earth and the big bang. Well, empty space exploding into existence, between earth and the big bang, keeping earth at a safe distance from the big bang explosion, is a pretty handy tool for God to have, during the six days of creation. God made it a law that earth cannot travel faster than the speed of light.

Empty space is still coming into existence today. Scientists see stars moving away from earth faster than the speed of light. It is impossible to travel faster than the speed of light. So what is going on? The fact is that empty space is actually coming into existence between earth and the stars, the stars which seem to be traveling faster than the speed of light.

How are galaxies moving away faster than light?
https://phys.org/news/2015-10-galaxies-faster.html
 
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Hello SD,
Does everyone on earth die when an atomic bomb goes off on earth? No they do not. Why not? It is all about how close to the explosion you position yourself.

The big bang is also known as the great expansion. You are wrong to think that there was this huge never ending area of empty space that the big bang explodes out into. Empty space explodes out into existence right along with matter and energy, when the mass of one septillion stars suddenly pops into existence, on the head of needle.

As the gravitational mass of one septillion stars is accelerating earth, to light speed, toward the big bang, you have empty space exploding into existence, outwardly, toward earth, placing itself between earth and the big bang. Well, empty space exploding into existence, between earth and the big bang, keeping earth at a safe distance from the big bang explosion, is a pretty handy tool for God to have, during the six days of creation. God made it a law that earth cannot travel faster than the speed of light.

Empty space is still coming into existence today. Scientists see stars moving away from earth faster than the speed of light. It is impossible to travel faster than the speed of light. So what is going on? The fact is that empty space is actually coming into existence between earth and the stars, the stars which seem to be traveling faster than the speed of light.

How are galaxies moving away faster than light?
https://phys.org/news/2015-10-galaxies-faster.html

I am only going by what the Bible says, not adding to it or deleting from it. The Big Bang is a theory that cannot be tested and there are no witnesses. In the Bible, God is our witness. Which way is better for you to believe, God or man?
 
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images


The Big Bang

"Let There Be Light"​

I am only going by what the Bible says, not adding to it or deleting from it. The Big Bang is a theory that cannot be tested and there are no witnesses. In the Bible, God is our witness. Which way is better for you to believe, God or man?

Hello SD,
The thing about scriptures is that people can manipulate them. God's authorized Church leaders put Jesus to death, "According to God's Law', so they claimed.

You also are trying to force your opinion of scriptures upon us. You are adding to scriptures, in saying that the light on Day One of Creation, was from spiritual realm, light from God. You are adding, to scriptures, that the light to dark cycles on earth, on Day One through Day Three of Creation, in demanding that they are 24 hour days, even though there is no earth orbit around the sun, until Day Four of Creation.

You are trying to say that if everyone does not accept your added to scriptures opinion, then they do not believe in God.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Time is now created, and the first day is a 24-hour day. God's light shined on the earth because there is not yet any other source of light.

Matthew 26:59 Jesus Before the Sanhedrin.
Those who had arrested Jesus led him away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were assembled. kept trying to obtain false testimony against Jesus in order to put him to death, but they found none, though many false witnesses came forward. Finally two came forward But Jesus was silent. Then the high priest said to him, “I order you to tell us under oath before the living God whether you are the Messiah, the Son of God.” Jesus said to him in reply, “You have said so. But I tell you:

From now on you will see ‘the Son of Man

seated at the right hand of the Power’

and ‘coming on the clouds of heaven.’”


What further need have we of witnesses? You have now heard the blasphemy; what is your opinion?” They said in reply, “He deserves to die!”

Leviticus 24:13
The LORD then said to Moses: Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and when all who heard him have laid their hands on his head, let the whole community stone him. The whole community shall stone that person; alien and native-born alike must be put to death for uttering the LORD’s name in a curse.
 
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Does everyone understand that billions of years of star formation can occur in six days, if God is using Time Dilation? It is not science, but Christians with their own points of view, who would say that billions of years of star formation cannot occur in six days on earth.

Have you seen anything from Russ Humphreys concerning starlight and time?

What if While God was creating (no BB) and spreading out the stars....the earth was in a gravity well slowing down time. But, time out in space was still ticking.
 
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Have you seen anything from Russ Humphreys concerning starlight and time?

What if While God was creating (no BB) and spreading out the stars....the earth was in a gravity well slowing down time. But, time out in space was still ticking.

Hello 57,
I do not know who Russ Humphreys is. Yes both gravity and velocity cause physical time to slow down, and even stop.

Have you visited my CF thread:
 
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Genesis 1:1 The Story of Creation.

Day One
In the beginning
, when God created the heavens and the earth and the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss and a mighty wind sweeping over the waters—

Then God said: Let there be light, and there was light.

God saw that the light was good. God then separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” Evening came, and morning followedthe first day.

Day Two

Evening came, and morning followed—the second day.

Day Three
Evening came, and morning followed—the third day.

Day Four
Then God said: Let there be lights in the dome of the sky, to separate day from night. Let them mark the seasons, the days and the years, and serve as lights in the dome of the sky, to illuminate the earth. And so it happened: God made the two great lights, the greater one to govern the day, and the lesser one to govern the night, and the stars. God set them in the dome of the sky, to illuminate the earth, to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. God saw that it was good. Evening came, and morning followedthe fourth day.

The sequence of God's Creation of our universe according to God in Genesis.

1: God Creates physical earth. Creation Day One

2: Then God Creates physical light. Creation Day One.

3: God Separates physical light on earth. Light God names 'Day', Dark God names 'night'. Creation Day One.

4: Three physical light 'Days' and physical dark 'Nights' go by. Creation Day One, Creation Day Two, Creation Day Three.

5: On Creation Day Four, God Creates the sun, stars and moon, to "mark the days and years", and "to illuminate earth".


The Big Bang
images


stevenmerten,

1. Genesis 1:1 is the original creation when he spoke the world’s into existence out of nothing that was already in existence. Hebrews 11:3.

2. Genesis 1:2 is the earth in judgement of without form and void. Isaiah 45:18 and Jeremiah 4:23 say the earth was without form and void and not made in vain.
This goes in line with Lucifer ruling the original Garden of Eden on earth and rebelling against God when he first sinned Ezekiel 28:1-15 and kicked out of Heaven Isaiah 14:12-15 and why he was working through the serpent in Adam’s garden of Eden Genesis 3. It is also the reason why hell is located in the lower parts of the earth which was prepared for the devil and his angels Matthew 25:41.

3. Genesis 1:3; Let there be light starts recreation of things already in existence like light. Jerry Kelso
 
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Yes, i got to post 12. Must have loss track of it.

You might enjoy this video
Hello 57,
Albert Einstein's 'Theory of Relativity' 'Time Dilation' is not some new, unknown concept. It has been around for over 100 years and even most grade school kids have, at least heard of it. I was always surprised that more Creationists have not used this concept in explaining God's Creation. A concept that can make billions of years of star formation occur in six days on earth.

I started watching your video. The ocean in outer space is a bit bizarre. All of a sudden we were at Creation Day Four, God's Creation of the stars, but he had not covered where earth was getting it's light from Creation Day One through Creation Day Three. Can you fill me in on this?
 
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Hello 57,
Albert Einstein's 'Theory of Relativity' 'Time Dilation' is not some new, unknown concept. It has been around for over 100 years and even most grade school kids have, at least heard of it. I was always surprised that more Creationists have not used this concept in explaining God's Creation. A concept that can make billions of years of star formation occur in six days on earth.

I started watching your video. The ocean in outer space is a bit bizarre. All of a sudden we were at Creation Day Four, God's Creation of the stars, but he had not covered where earth was getting it's light from Creation Day One through Creation Day Three. Can you fill me in on this?

I don't know if RH did. My speculation the light prior to the sun was something like:

Rev 21:23 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb.
 
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I don't know if RH did. My speculation the light prior to the sun was something like:

Rev 21:23 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb.

Hello 57,
Well then this is a big problem. If you are going to add even one miracle, then why not just say the whole Week of Creation was one big miracle? Atheist scientists are going to smash you for just one miracle, as much as they smash any Christian for saying God's Creation happened miraculously, thousands of years ago on the week Adam was made.

Using sciences well accepted 'big bang theory', I can bring all of Creation into existence, including billions of years of star formation and first man, in 144 hours on earth, start to finish, all done scientifically in the physical realm alone.

My goal is to bring science and Christianity into mutual acceptance of the plausibility that God can bring all of Creation, including billions of years of star formation, and first man, in six days, even 144 hours, on earth. Public schools could teach 13.8 billion years from creation, and a 'Time Dilation' creation which took place in six days on earth, both being completely scientifically possible. Any creation theory which has to rely on even one miracle to make six day Creation happen, breaks the deal.
 
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jerry kelso

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Hello 57,
Well then this is a big problem. If you are going to add even one miracle, then why not just say the whole Week of Creation was one big miracle? Atheist scientists are going to smash you for just one miracle, as much as they smash any Christian for saying God's Creation happened miraculously, thousands of years ago on the week Adam was made.

Using sciences well accepted 'big bang theory', I can bring all of Creation into existence, including billions of years of star formation and first man, in 144 hours on earth, start to finish, all done scientifically in the physical realm alone.

My goal is to bring science and Christianity into mutual acceptance of the plausibility that God can bring all of Creation, including billions of years of star formation, and first man, in six days, even 144 hours, on earth. Public schools could teach 13.8 billion years from creation, and a 'Time Dilation' creation which took place in six days on earth, both being completely scientifically possible. Any creation theory which has to rely on even one miracle to make six day Creation happen, breaks the deal.

stevenmerten,

1. God creating is a miracle to all his creation.

2. There was no Big Bang at the original creation or the recreation.
God created the original Heaven and Earth out of nothing Genesis 1:1; Hebrews 11:3.
Genesis 1:2 was a flood because of judgement on Satan and his rebellious angels who left their first state Jude 1 and why hell is located in the lower parts of the earth Matthew 25:41.
So I don’t see where your time dilation works without a Big Bang and there was no Big Bang. Jerry Kelso
 
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