Adding obedience to the gospel beyond True Belief

BNR32FAN

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It is my opinion that a good gospel Workman should shut their mouth after the emboldened words within your quote.

Anything else is from the Evil one. (Do the Apostles within Canon speak of mature faith? Most certainly! I speak a mystery to you. What is the difference between Mature Faith, Struggling Faith, New Faith and Faith with Works? ... in relation to Salvation? NOTHING)

Slavery to God of the BondServant Type is a Privilege, not a work, and our Salvation is MOST certainly not contingent on it!

Is Jesus Sufficient to Save a Sinner?
Yes...

But! But!

But Nothing! Such follow ups should be led to Galatians and drawn to ... YOU FOOLISH GALATIANS!

Is Jesus sufficient to save us? Absolutely friend, but Jesus Himself said we must abide (remain) in Him in John 15. He also said in verse 2 that The Father cuts off every branch “in Me” (branches who are in Christ) that does not bear fruit. He also said in verse 5

“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.”
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭15:5‬ ‭NASB‬‬

He doesn’t say we might bear fruit or we may bear a little fruit. He said we WILL bear MUCH fruit. He also said in verse 7

“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.”
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭15:10‬ ‭NASB‬‬

He also said in verse 6

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.”
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭15:6‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Who did He say all this to? His 11 faithful apostles. They were the only ones present to hear this message.

Notice all this is also in the book of John which you quoted John 5 in your last post. The message John wanted to convey did not stop in chapter 5. Please take into consideration the definition of the word believe (pisteuo) I provided in my previous post and contemplate how these teachings line up together along with the teachings of the early church writings. Eternal security has been refuted by the early church writings as far back as 180AD by St Iranaeus in his writing titled Adversus Haereses. Not to mention the scriptures themselves.
 
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ViaCrucis

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You’re being ridiculous!

Are you a Calvinist that believes in Individual Election or a Universalist that believes in Forced Salvation without choice?

If you were a Calvinist, I would understand your words and give some push back... and then respect your view.

If you were a Universalist, I would pray you are correct.

If you are neither of these, I remain steadfast that what you have written is ridiculous.

I'm a Lutheran, so neither of those things. I do believe in Election, as Scripture clearly teaches that we have been predestined in Christ before the foundation of the world. And I do believe in Christ's Universal Atonement--because Scripture teaches these things.

God's Unconditional Election according to His grace:

"And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." - Romans 8:28-30

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth." - Ephesians 1:3-10

Christ's Universal Atonement of the whole world:

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son that all who have faith in Him will not perish but have everlasting life." - John 3:16

"Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. For as by one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous." - Romans 5:18-19

"He is the atonement for our sins, and not only for ours, but also for the sins of the whole world." - 1 John 2:2

"But we see Him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone." - Hebrews 2:9

"The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." - 2 Peter 3:9

"For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all human beings, especially of those who believe." - 1 Timothy 4:10

-CryptoLutheran
 
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BNR32FAN

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Any man that claims to be without anything on the lists of Condemnation in scripture, in view of Jesus’ Amplification of the Law... in the Beatitudes... is making God a Liar. (1 John 1:8)

It is His Righteousness, Alone that is sufficient to save.

Any man that isn’t cloaked in the Masters provided attire, that attempts to pass off his own, will be cast out!

Galatians 3:27

Oh how many Foolish Galatians there are today!

Yes but I have just posted scriptures in John 15 where Jesus Himself specifically says that a person must remain in Him to receive salvation and anyone (believers included) who does not remain in Him will not receive salvation. Only a believer can be “in Christ”. Only a believer can be attached to the vine. A person cannot remain in Christ if they are not currently in Christ.
 
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Grip Docility

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Is Jesus sufficient to save us? Absolutely friend, but Jesus Himself said we must abide (remain) in Him in John 15. He also said in verse 2 that The Father cuts off every branch “in Me” (branches who are in Christ) that does not bear fruit. He also said in verse 5

“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.”
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭15:5‬ ‭NASB‬‬

He doesn’t say we might bear fruit or we may bear a little fruit. He said we WILL bear MUCH fruit. He also said in verse 7

“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.”
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭15:10‬ ‭NASB‬‬

He also said in verse 6

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.”
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭15:6‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Who did He say all this to? His 11 faithful apostles. They were the only ones present to hear this message.

Notice all this is also in the book of John which you quoted John 5 in your last post. The message John wanted to convey did not stop in chapter 5. Please take into consideration the definition of the word believe (pisteuo) I provided in my previous post and contemplate how these teachings line up together along with the teachings of the early church writings. Eternal security has been refuted by the early church writings as far back as 180AD by St Iranaeus in his writing titled Adversus Haereses. Not to mention the scriptures themselves.

Belief is How we REMAIN in Him!

Israel ticked God off by seeing all His provision and then doubting Him. Guess what, the BOC is NO better!

Must I spell it out!?!

We are Flesh of His Flesh, Bone of His Bone. This means God has chosen to call us “His Body... The Body of Christ”... as a Man and a Woman Wed are to one another.

Spoiler... all of us are women in the Eyes of God... in relation to this relationship.

He’s the Giver and We’re the Receivers!

God uses Making Love as the symbol of our union of Faith!

He does this all throughout Scripture with Israel and the BOC.

We supply the initial Belief and He supplies the rest!

He’s our Sugar Daddy and always... and I mean ALWAYS provides all of our needs! End of story.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Like Jesus said: (pisteúō)... which is the work.
John 5:28-29

Belief of the initial response to the Gospel (IE Faith) is our Work!

No Serpent’s cunning will deceive me to trade my BirthRight for a bowel Of lentils! (2 Corinthians 11:3)

It is us offering up Christ as our sacrifice in place of Isaac.

It is us Climbing in the Ark, like the 8. Jesus is our Ark, built by the Trinity!

Next.

You skipped verse 27 friend.

“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.”
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭10:27-29‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Jesus says “They follow Me” not they followed me. Verse 29 is simply saying that no outside force can take away our salvation. I’ve already shown where John 15:2 specifically says that The Father cuts off every branch in Christ that does not bear fruit. And verse 29 doesn’t say the believer cannot walk away from God. There’s a difference between being snatched away, being thrown away (John 15:6), and walking away. Romans 11 17-21 branches that are grafted in can be cut off and grafted back in if they repent. Ephesians 2 Paul is speaking to children of God yet later in the same message to the same children of God Paul warns them in Ephesians 5:1-5 of receiving God’s wrath on the sons of disobedience for living a sinful way of life resulting in them having no inheritance in the kingdom of God.
 
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Grip Docility

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You skipped verse 27 friend.

“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.”
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭10:27-29‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Jesus says “They follow Me” not they followed me. Verse 29 is simply saying that no outside force can take away our salvation. I’ve already shown where John 15:2 specifically says that The Father cuts off every branch in Christ that does not bear fruit. And verse 29 doesn’t say the believer cannot walk away from God. There’s a difference between being snatched away, being thrown away (John 15:6), and walking away. Romans 11 17-21 branches that are grafted in can be cut off and grafted back in if they repent. Ephesians 2 Paul is speaking to children of God yet later in the same message to the same children of God Paul warns them in Ephesians 5:1-5 of receiving God’s wrath on the sons of disobedience for living a sinful way of life resulting in them having no inheritance in the kingdom of God.

What Loving wife, Enamored with her Hunk, doesn’t follow her MAN!?!

How is such a simple matter complicated!!!

:scratch:
 
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ViaCrucis

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Grace is the Gift Of God. Did Jesus lie here? (John 6:28-29)

Notice here that it is God's work, not your or my work.

Conflating the Gospel beyond Faith being the work is to deny the choice men must make.

"For you did not choose Me, but I chose you." - John 15:16

"But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." - John 1:12-13

"As it is written, 'There is no one who is righteous, no not one, there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God'." - Romans 3:10

It is impossible for man to choose righteousness, because "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23), "The heart is wicked above all else and desperately sick, who can understand it?" (Jeremiah 17:9), and indeed, the dead can do nothing and as we read,

"And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." - Ephesians 2:1-9

We were dead, God made us alive. The dead cannot boast.

What Work will save a man?

None. At least no human work. But the works of God are efficacious, for there is a difference between the work of God and the work of men. For the works of men bring only death, but the works of God are life everlasting.

Jesus says this... (John 6:28-29 ; John 5:24)

The idea that we should fear expressing that Belief/Faith in its initial infancy is a work is the Devil’s way of hiding the one Requirement to OBEYING the Gospel.

Why does Satan do this? So he can make the Works about the flesh, again... when The TRUTH says this... (John 6:63)

The Gospel is not Law that it is to be obeyed, the Gospel is the word which is given, and works to create faith and, indeed, save us; this is why we read "For faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ" (Romans 10:17), and also "I am not ashamed of the Gospel for it is the power of God to save all who have faith, the Jew first and also the Greek; for by it the justice of God is revealed from faith to faith, as it is written, 'The just shall live by faith.'" (Romans 1:16-17). When the Apostle says, "not all have obeyed the Gospel" (Romans 10:16) we should be wise to understand the word the Apostle uses, for he says "they have not all ὑπήκουσαν the Gospel", this word hypakouo does not mean "obey" in the sense of being obedient to a commandment; but rather describes hearing, a passive receiving. Not all have received the Gospel, not by way of obedience to a law; but rather as Christ Himself says in the Parable of the Sower, that the seed of the word is sometimes choked out by thorns and thistles, or eaten by the birds of the air. Remember the Lord Himself when He says "let he who has ears listen". For many will hear the Gospel, and yet it will not penetrate.

The Gospel is not Law to be obeyed; the Gospel is grace to be received. But it is not received through our works, it is not received by works of the flesh; but rather is received passively as pure gift to sinful beggars. This is through faith, itself God's gracious work.

When you turn the Gospel into Law you confuse Law and Gospel and preach false gospel, which is precisely why the Apostle says to the Galatians, "You foolish Galatians, who has deceived you?!"

It is not by human effort, not by the will of sinful flesh, but by the will and working of God alone, by His immense love and grace which is for us--indeed, for the whole world, accomplished perfectly in what Christ has done--for you, for me, for everyone already. For Christ is Savior of all, having died for all, and in Him all having forgiveness of sins and reconciliation to God.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Grip Docility

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Notice here that it is God's work, not your or my work.



"For you did not choose Me, but I chose you." - John 15:16

"But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." - John 1:12-13

"As it is written, 'There is no one who is righteous, no not one, there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God'." - Romans 3:10

It is impossible for man to choose righteousness, because "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23), "The heart is wicked above all else and desperately sick, who can understand it?" (Jeremiah 17:9), and indeed, the dead can do nothing and as we read,

"And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." - Ephesians 2:1-9

We were dead, God made us alive. The dead cannot boast.



None. At least no human work. But the works of God are efficacious, for there is a difference between the work of God and the work of men. For the works of men bring only death, but the works of God are life everlasting.



The Gospel is not Law that it is to be obeyed, the Gospel is the word which is given, and works to create faith and, indeed, save us; this is why we read "For faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ" (Romans 10:17), and also "I am not ashamed of the Gospel for it is the power of God to save all who have faith, the Jew first and also the Greek; for by it the justice of God is revealed from faith to faith, as it is written, 'The just shall live by faith.'" (Romans 1:16-17). When the Apostle says, "not all have obeyed the Gospel" (Romans 10:16) we should be wise to understand the word the Apostle uses, for he says "they have not all ὑπήκουσαν the Gospel", this word hypakouo does not mean "obey" in the sense of being obedient to a commandment; but rather describes hearing, a passive receiving. Not all have received the Gospel, not by way of obedience to a law; but rather as Christ Himself says in the Parable of the Sower, that the seed of the word is sometimes choked out by thorns and thistles, or eaten by the birds of the air. Remember the Lord Himself when He says "let he who has ears listen". For many will hear the Gospel, and yet it will not penetrate.

The Gospel is not Law to be obeyed; the Gospel is grace to be received. But it is not received through our works, it is not received by works of the flesh; but rather is received passively as pure gift to sinful beggars. This is through faith, itself God's gracious work.

When you turn the Gospel into Law you confuse Law and Gospel and preach false gospel, which is precisely why the Apostle says to the Galatians, "You foolish Galatians, who has deceived you?!"

It is not by human effort, not by the will of sinful flesh, but by the will and working of God alone, by His immense love and grace which is for us--indeed, for the whole world, accomplished perfectly in what Christ has done--for you, for me, for everyone already. For Christ is Savior of all, having died for all, and in Him all having forgiveness of sins and reconciliation to God.

-CryptoLutheran

Look... Luther said ... “The Just shall live by Faith Alone”...

He never said “Ya don’t even need to Have Faith”.

This conflation Of Belief being a work, and thus is teaching Works is so beyond destroying the Gospel that it is ridiculous!

Allow me to ask you outright... Because I too, fully believe in 1 John 2:2 (Kosmos)...

What does John 6:66 mean?
 
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Grip Docility

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That's not what Scripture says.

Scripture says Baptism IS death with Christ.

-CryptoLutheran

Oh dear goodness! Some people are getting Semantical on me!

Pfffffft.... Would they like a gnat strainer with that? :angel:
 
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ViaCrucis

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Look... Luther said ... “The Just shall live by Faith Alone”...

He never said “Ya don’t even need to Have Faith”.

This conflation Of Belief being a work, and thus is teaching Works is so beyond destroying the Gospel that it is ridiculous!

Allow me to ask you outright... Because I too, fully believe in 1 John 2:2 (Kosmos)...

What does John 6:66 mean?

Of course we need faith. That's not the argument. The argument is that faith isn't a human work, it's a supernatural gift from God apart from ourselves.

Let's be clear: I do not believe that faith is a human work. You were the one saying faith is a human work.

John 6:66 refers to when Jesus gave a "hard saying" concerning eating His flesh and drinking His blood, some who had been following found this saying too hard and so they abandoned Him.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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BNR32FAN

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Belief is How we REMAIN in Him!

Israel ticked God off by seeing all His provision and then doubting Him. Guess what, the BOC is NO better!

Must I spell it out!?!

We are Flesh of His Flesh, Bone of His Bone. This means God has chosen to call us “His Body... The Body of Christ”... as a Man and a Woman Wed are to one another.

Spoiler... all of us are women in the Eyes of God... in relation to this relationship.

He’s the Giver and We’re the Receivers!

God uses Making Love as the symbol of our union of Faith!

He does this all throughout Scripture with Israel and the BOC.

We supply the initial Belief and He supplies the rest!

He’s our Sugar Daddy and always... and I mean ALWAYS provides all of our needs! End of story.

The word believe is nowhere in the entire chapter my friend. Bearing fruit is doing good works out of love for each other.

“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full. "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. You are My friends if you do what I command you.”
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭15:10-14‬ ‭NASB‬‬

In Matthew 25:31-46 why did Jesus condemn the goats? He says why in verses 41-43.

“"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'”
‭‭MATTHEW‬ ‭25:41-43‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Notice the similarities in the works James described in James 2:14-17.

“What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.”
‭‭JAMES‬ ‭2:14-17‬ ‭NASB‬‬

What do these type of works have in common with the works mentioned in Matthew 25:41-43? These are all works of love for others. The goats aren’t condemned because they didn’t do good works. They’re condemned because they didn’t abide in Christ and Christ did not abide in them. They had no love for others.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Oh dear goodness! Some people are getting Semantical on me!

Pfffffft.... Would they like a gnat strainer with that? :angel:

If you think it's mere semantics then you should go back and read your Bible more to understand what Baptism is, and what Baptism does.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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BNR32FAN

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What Loving wife, Enamored with her Hunk, doesn’t follow her MAN!?!

How is such a simple matter complicated!!!

:scratch:

Perhaps you should ask Jesus that question because He’s the one who told His 11 faithful apostles to abide in Him not me. Why would He tell them to abide in Him even explaining the consequences of failing to abide if they were incapable of failing to abide? Was He warning them about doing something they are incapable of doing?
 
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Grip Docility

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The word believe is nowhere in the entire chapter my friend. Bearing fruit is doing good works out of love for each other.

“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full. "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. You are My friends if you do what I command you.”
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭15:10-14‬ ‭NASB‬‬

In Matthew 25:31-46 why did Jesus condemn the goats? He says why in verses 41-43.

“"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'”
‭‭MATTHEW‬ ‭25:41-43‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Notice the similarities in the works James described in James 2:14-17.

“What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.”
‭‭JAMES‬ ‭2:14-17‬ ‭NASB‬‬

What do these type of works have in common with the works mentioned in Matthew 25:41-43? These are all works of love for others. The goats aren’t condemned because they didn’t do good works. They’re condemned because they didn’t abide in Christ and Christ did not abide in them. They had no love for others.

How can a person that has taken the Job upon themselves of Fruit Inspector and Fruit Enforcer... Love their Fellow man?

How can a person that frustrates Grace, by flirting with the Stone Law, through crafty words, Love their fellow man?

I’ll speak an opinion of mine....

I pray I never consort with the likes of the Spiritual ones that pass out “Badges Of professional Fruit Inspection”.
 
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Grip Docility

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Perhaps you should ask Jesus that question because He’s the one who told His 11 faithful apostles to abide in Him not me. Why would He tell them to abide in Him even explaining the consequences of failing to abide if they were incapable of failing to abide? Was He warning them about doing something they are incapable of doing?

All kindness implied, but I feel like a deep circular chasm is being trod beneath our feet.

If you can’t understand what I meant by pointing out John 6:66, you have missed my entire point!

We ought not make people fearful of falling away, because the parable of the seed sower takes place between initial faith and True Belief.

I have no desire to have a millstone tied about my neck!

All Love in Jesus Christ to you.
 
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Grip Docility

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If you think it's mere semantics then you should go back and read your Bible more to understand what Baptism is, and what Baptism does.

-CryptoLutheran

Our battle is not against flesh and blood.
 
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BNR32FAN

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How can a person that has taken the Job upon themselves of Fruit Inspector and Fruit Enforcer... Love their Fellow man?

How can a person that frustrates Grace, by flirting with the Stone Law, through crafty words, Love their fellow man?

I’ll speak an opinion of mine....

I pray I never consort with the likes of the Spiritual ones that pass out “Badges Of professional Fruit Inspection”.

You can sit there and make silly remarks all you want but you cannot address any of the scriptures I’ve posted with any kind of explanation which is why you have avoided doing so throughout this discussion. In John 15:2 who is the fruit inspector?
 
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Grip Docility

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You can sit there and make silly remarks all you want but you cannot address any of the scriptures I’ve posted with any kind of explanation which is why you have avoided doing so throughout this discussion. In John 15:2 who is the fruit inspector?

I’m glad you have called my comments silly.

It gives me a reasonable out from this circular discussion that should have ended at John 6:28-29
 
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BNR32FAN

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All kindness implied, but I feel like a deep circular chasm is being trod beneath our feet.

If you can’t understand what I meant by pointing out John 6:66, you have missed my entire point!

We ought not make people fearful of falling away, because the parable of the seed sower takes place between initial faith and True Belief.

I have no desire to have a millstone tied about my neck!

All Love in Jesus Christ to you.

Your response was far from quoting John 6:66 and you still keep dodging the question why did Jesus tell His faithful 11 apostles to abide in Him if they are incapable of failing to abide?
 
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