Carl Emerson
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The missing link that explains faith vs. faith plus works
- Thread starter Gideons300
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@Gideons300
Interesting thought, “works the same as fruit”.??? Worth pondering before God.
Let see, both are a action that the body produces. Both are seen outwardly. Both are said to be produced by faith. Curious???
Let’s see, the thief on the cross had saving faith, therefore he had both faith and works. The faith of his heart caused him to humble himself and turn to Christ and with his mouth asked to be remembered. That act had both faith and works or faith and the fruit of faith.
Interesting, ???
Blessings,
Much love in Christ, Not me
Interesting thought, “works the same as fruit”.??? Worth pondering before God.
Let see, both are a action that the body produces. Both are seen outwardly. Both are said to be produced by faith. Curious???
Let’s see, the thief on the cross had saving faith, therefore he had both faith and works. The faith of his heart caused him to humble himself and turn to Christ and with his mouth asked to be remembered. That act had both faith and works or faith and the fruit of faith.
Interesting, ???
Blessings,
Much love in Christ, Not me
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- Jun 26, 2015
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Morning brother. Let me clarify. Fruits are not something we generate. They are what the Spirit does inside us as we abide in Him.
Works are the outer expression in our lives of those inner fruits. They are not the same, but one will produce the other.
Thus, if someone does not have works, it reveals the lack of fruits on the inside, in our hearts. This was the emphasis of James when he stated that faith without works is dead.
Fruits are produced by our abiding in Him by faith. And then, from those fruits that God grows in us, then the outer expression comes forth, good works.
So if a man is not doing good works, being kind, or loving, or patient, or if a man has little if any self control, it reveals a lack of abiding in Him. Now, this is quite normal if the believer is a new convert. However, if one has been a Christian for a while, and no evidence of those inner fruits is apparent, then something is amiss, badly amiss.
This is the point of this post. As a whole, we are not found to be walking in victory or in true agape love. We love those who love us, but the Pharisees did that. Sin still has us, self still ultimately rules, and growing up into God, taking on His likeness..... well, it simply is not happening, even for saints that have been saved for decades as I was.
There IS an answer for us, one guaranteed to fix our terrible dilemma. But until we can admit we need it, and stop resting content with simply being forgiven, yet continuing to do those things that carnal men do, our ears will remain closed to grasp the truth.
Thank God, He is even now awakening His people to what we have missed, the secret as to HOW to abide in Him, HOW to walk in true holiness, HOW to defeat the world, the flesh and the devil.
Huge changes are coming. Wonderful changes. Are we hungry for more than residing in the outer courts? Are we ready to enter the holy of holies? If so, we better buckle our seatbelts, for things are about to go from going through the motions to becoming a fruitful vine. Glory!
blessings, my dear brother.
Gids
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To follow up, we are not called to bear fruits. That is God's job as the master potter. But we do have our part to play. And what is that? We are to make our tree GOOD!
I am off to work, but I will let you guys mull on that one today. How DO we make our tree good? Once we understand that, the sky. is the limit for our bearing of fruits.
blessings,
Gids
I am off to work, but I will let you guys mull on that one today. How DO we make our tree good? Once we understand that, the sky. is the limit for our bearing of fruits.
blessings,
Gids
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It’s interesting that the abiding is the new of the new testament. From the withering of the fig tree at it’s roots because it lacked fruit in it’s proper season Jesus shows us that legalism is not conducive to fruit-bearing. It’s only a branch on Christ’s Tree of Life that fruit of enduring worth remains. Life is seen in it’s fruit but the barren will wither away.
James says it’s the power of the ‘implanted word’ that we are to 'welcome with meekness’ and that to the saving our soul. James 1:21
The implanted word is gifted from the Father of lights and is the source of any of our gifts of giving to help fulfill His own purposes. His purposes is new birth and that purpose is without change because it is the means of producing children to Him. He has given His children that gift for others to receive the same Holy Spirit. In hearing they believe and in belief they receive. If any lack wisdom let them pray and the Father will give generously.
James says it’s the power of the ‘implanted word’ that we are to 'welcome with meekness’ and that to the saving our soul. James 1:21
The implanted word is gifted from the Father of lights and is the source of any of our gifts of giving to help fulfill His own purposes. His purposes is new birth and that purpose is without change because it is the means of producing children to Him. He has given His children that gift for others to receive the same Holy Spirit. In hearing they believe and in belief they receive. If any lack wisdom let them pray and the Father will give generously.
James 1:17-18
17 Every generous act of giving, with every perfect gift, is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. 18 In fulfillment of his own purpose he gave us birth by the word of truth, so that we would become a kind of first fruits of his creatures.
17 Every generous act of giving, with every perfect gift, is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. 18 In fulfillment of his own purpose he gave us birth by the word of truth, so that we would become a kind of first fruits of his creatures.
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Jesus was provided with a body , He was the embodiment of the new creation — the first born of the new creation.
The Holy Spirit’s act in creating the divinity within the new creation (w/o being essentially the Godhead) was/is to produce the guiding force within which is the Way of Christianity - the Way back to the Father.
As the representative of the human/divine nature, Jesus has left us with this ministry (ministry of reconciliation) also but - only when it proceeds from our divine nature and never from the flesh/human nature. For all new creations share His dual nature.
The Master is replaced only in the Holy Spirit, Who is the Way, the Reality, with the converse leading to eternal Life, that leads from the Holy Spirit thru Jesus Christ and into the heart of the Father.
John 14:6, John 16:13, John 1:4,
The Holy Spirit’s act in creating the divinity within the new creation (w/o being essentially the Godhead) was/is to produce the guiding force within which is the Way of Christianity - the Way back to the Father.
As the representative of the human/divine nature, Jesus has left us with this ministry (ministry of reconciliation) also but - only when it proceeds from our divine nature and never from the flesh/human nature. For all new creations share His dual nature.
The Master is replaced only in the Holy Spirit, Who is the Way, the Reality, with the converse leading to eternal Life, that leads from the Holy Spirit thru Jesus Christ and into the heart of the Father.
John 14:6, John 16:13, John 1:4,
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The only reason the thief needed no works is because he was not going to be able to do any as his time was short. It's also like if a paraplegic was saved, works would not be expected anymore from God than they would from his family/caretaker.
These are normal exceptions we as humans make, and I know we are not more compassionate than Christ so of course he makes the same exceptions, it would be cruel to expect the impossible from anyone. Though they are often used wrongly in attempt to do away with works, the lesson with things like that have nothing to do with Christians in general not needing to do works but the common sense works cannot be expected at times.
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Hi,
As I wrote in my post, I see it as the thief did have works.
The faith of his heart caused him to turn to Jesus and ask to be remembered. That act of putting his faith in action was the work that saved him.
But you see it differently, so I wish you well, as we search after this God, who called us unto Himself.
Blessings,
Much love in Christ, Not me
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I wasn't clear of what you were getting at, as yours is a different take than what many get out of that scripture. I think in a sense you are correct, at least in a case like this,
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No, the thief did not have "works" as Paul defines "works" in the context of salvation:
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. -- Romans 4
When Paul speaks of "work" in his Romans teaching of salvation, he is speaking of the attempt of persons to obligate God to eternal life through their own activity. They perform certain actions, live a certain way, and they believe that obligates God to pay them their due wages of eternal life.
Paul does not use this specific definition of "work" in other places. He's not using this definition of work in, for instance, Ephesians 2:10. Nor is this the definition used by James. All of those are "works" that are the result of actions propelled by faith.
Faith causes good works--consistently and reliably. If there are no good works, there is question whether faith even exists.
The thief displayed "good work" in his confession of faith while in agony on his cross. Testimony is a good work. His testimony did not save him, it was the result of his faith.
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Hi,
Was this not what I was saying?
“All of those are "works" that are the result of actions propelled by faith.”
So in Christ I wish you all good things in your personal relationship with Him.
Blessings,
Much love in Christ, Not me
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Works, as spoken of by Paul, are the resulting actions thoughts or beliefs that originate in the flesh, or human part of man. They are not acceptable in any form whether well intentioned or not.
The only thing that is acceptable to God is that which eminates from the Holy Spirit dwelling within the man if indeed he has been Spirit baptised. All flesh is under the curse.
The only thing that is acceptable to God is that which eminates from the Holy Spirit dwelling within the man if indeed he has been Spirit baptised. All flesh is under the curse.
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Carl Emerson
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Rom 10
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9 that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved.…
Well in the case of the thief He wasn't yet raised but the same applies - faith and works.
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Daniel Marsh
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Personally I think the word pistis would’ve been better translated to the word devotion instead of faith.
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