God’s pleasure

Hammster said:

Just for clarity, the OP is assuming that participants in the thread are saved.

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the parable of the talents comes to mind. Each are servants of the master and each are judged and their worth is determined by their performance. the parable concludes saying "whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them" the servant who buried his talent is thrown out and called "worthless"

Calvin_1985 said:

Any Christian is not immune to being cursed. It's quite a deep subject but I believe Saul would be a perfect example of being cursed as one of Gods people. Any Christian that changes the word of God deliberately and willfully will be cursed for the remainder of His life on Earth.

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In the End: Saul was not saved.

In verse 13 in 2 Samuel 7:12-16, we see that the "he" who built a house in the Lord's name is talking about Solomon. In verse 15, it says that the Lord' mercy shall not depart from him [Solomon] as the Lord took away from Saul.


In addition to that, 1 John 3:15 says that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. Saul committed self murder by taking his own life. Saul also indulged in consulting one who contacted the dead and he did not seek forgiveness of such a sin with the Lord, either.


We learn that even God's Spirit had departed from Saul. Saul had desired to hear from God, but God would not answer him. This means Saul did something so bad that he could not be forgiven. Saul went down the path of sin to his own destruction. A person has to confess of their sin in order to be forgiven of their sins (1 John 1:9). A person cannot confess of their sin when they are dead. By then, it is too late. We know in the story of Lazarus and the Rich-man that the rich-man was condemned for not helping the beggar Lazarus at his own gates. No doubt he was sorrowful and wished he could have changed his decision. But it was too late.

Hammster said:

I’m trying to understand your point here. I’m not saying that it’s okay to not love Christ.

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My point is that a person cannot be "accursed" and yet also "saved."
Nowhere does the Bible teach that the "accursed believer" will be saved despite their grievous bad behavior. The Bible has many warnings given to the believer.

For the Bible teaches that sin can separate us from God from Matthew to Revelation (Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:37) (Matthew 25:31-46) (Luke 9:62) (1 John 3:15) (Galatians 5:19-21) (Revelation 21:8).

The Bible teaches that obedience to God's commands is tied to eternal life from Matthew to Revelation (See Matthew 19:17-19) (Luke 10:25-28) (1 John 1:7) (1 John 3:23) (Hebrews 5:9) (Revelation 22:14).

Side Note:

Not all sins are the same, either. The Bible teaches that there are minor faults of character or minor transgressions that do not condemn. A real world example (parable) would be like going over the speed limit a little vs. say murder. For surely there is a difference between a parent disciplining their child for not obeying them in keeping their room clean (minor transgression), vs. say if that child had murdered someone. What if the child did not repent or seek forgiveness? The Law of the land would not allow for the parent's child to stay in that parent's home if they murdered. Also, what if the child killed their own brother (like Abel)? What if the child was a threat to the rest of the family? This is why not every believer who becomes a believer will always remain in God's good kingdom. God is not going to allow for wicked men to cause problems among others in His kingdom. The change in our life starts today and not after believers get to Heaven.

The Bible says narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that find it. It does not say many be there that find it. Most bible believing churches today teach that a believer can commit grievous sin and still be saved on some level. Some justify a little bit of grievous sin, and others justify any amount of grievous sin. But God is holy. He cannot justify or agree with a person's thinking on grievous sin by any amount. I say this because Jude 1:4 warns against those who turn God's grace into a license for immorality.

Jason0047 said:

In the End: Saul was not saved.

In verse 13 in 2 Samuel 7:12-16, we see that the "he" who built a house in the Lord's name is talking about Solomon. In verse 15, it says that the Lord' mercy shall not depart from him [Solomon] as the Lord took away from Saul.

2 Samuel 7:12-16
12 "And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:

15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.

16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever."​

In addition to that, 1 John 3:15 says that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. Saul committed self murder by taking his own life. Saul also indulged in consulting one who contacted the dead and he did not seek forgiveness of such a sin with the Lord, either.

"And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people."
(Leviticus 20:6).​

We learn that even God's Spirit had departed from Saul. Saul had desired to hear from God, but God would not answer him. This means Saul did something so bad that he could not be forgiven. Saul went down the path of sin to his own destruction. A person has to confess of their sin in order to be forgiven of their sins (1 John 1:9). A person cannot confess of their sin when they are dead. By then, it is too late. We know in the story of Lazarus and the Rich-man that the rich-man was condemned for not helping the beggar Lazarus at his own gates. No doubt he was sorrowful and wished he could have changed his decision. But it was too late.

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I'm not 100% on whether or not Sayl was still saved in the end. You mentioned eternal life, would you define that term for me? I'm not asking because I don't know, I'm just asking for your explanation because that would give me a better understanding of what you are saying.

It is not those who say "Lord, Lord" who will enter the Kingdom of God, but those who DO the will of my Father". "Do" = "action" = "performance".

PaulCyp1 said:

It is not those who say "Lord, Lord" who will enter the Kingdom of God, but those who DO the will of my Father". "Do" = "action" = "performance".

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Many things I really wish I could say to you right now.

Hammster said:

True or False

God’s pleasure with us is not based on our performance.

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False.

Shimokita said:

False.

3 Solomon loved the Lord, walking in the statutes of David his father, only he sacrificed and made offerings at the high places. 4 And the king went to Gibeon to sacrifice there, for that was the great high place. Solomon used to offer a thousand burnt offerings on that altar. 5 At Gibeon the Lord appeared to Solomon in a dream by night, and God said, “Ask what I shall give you.” 6 And Solomon said, “You have shown great and steadfast love to your servant David my father, because he walked before you in faithfulness, in righteousness, and in uprightness of heart toward you. And you have kept for him this great and steadfast love and have given him a son to sit on his throne this day. 7 And now, O Lord my God, you have made your servant king in place of David my father, although I am but a little child. I do not know how to go out or come in. 8 And your servant is in the midst of your people whom you have chosen, a great people, too many to be numbered or counted for multitude. 9 Give your servant therefore an understanding mind to govern your people, that I may discern between good and evil, for who is able to govern this your great people?”

10 It pleased the Lord that Solomon had asked this. 11 And God said to him, “Because you have asked this, and have not asked for yourself long life or riches or the life of your enemies, but have asked for yourself understanding to discern what is right, 12 behold, I now do according to your word. Behold, I give you a wise and discerning mind, so that none like you has been before you and none like you shall arise after you. 13 I give you also what you have not asked, both riches and honor, so that no other king shall compare with you, all your days. 14 And if you will walk in my ways, keeping my statutes and my commandments, as your father David walked, then I will lengthen your days.”​

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I want to point out that Solomon is simply “Asking” something of God, instead of DOING something.

Grip Docility said:

I want to point out that Solomon is simply “Asking” something of God, instead of DOING something.

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Please. "Asking" is doing. It is an action verb.

Blade said:

Well if the only way we can please Him is by faith... I heard one preacher say.. God expects us to fail.

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I would even say... so much so that He died for us.

Shimokita said:

Please. "Asking" is doing. It is an action verb.

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Sure... my point was that asking God Something is asking God to do something.

It’s still relying on God, not oneself.

How He answers... well... that’s up to Him.

Grip Docility said:

It’s still relying on God, not oneself.

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I don't think there are very many Christians anywhere that think that we deserve anything apart from God's grace.

Shimokita said:

I don't think there are very many Christians anywhere that think that we deserve anything apart from God's grace.

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Amen!

And sadly... I wish your statement were true... in that “very many” portion.

There’s quite a few here and everywhere that see grace as a last resort protocol, Incase they make a mistake once in a blue moon.

Hammster said:

Two things. One, I don’t think you understand how sinful we really are.

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Sheesh. That sounds pretty bad. What kind of heinous sins have you been doing lately?

Grip Docility said:

Amen!

And sadly... I wish your statement were true... in that “very many” portion.

There’s quite a few here and everywhere that see grace as a last resort protocol, Incase they make a mistake once in a blue moon.

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I haven't really seen that attitude very often myself. Perhaps it is miscommunication or misunderstanding.

Shimokita said:

I haven't really seen that attitude very often myself. Perhaps it is miscommunication or misunderstanding.

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It’s out there.

Shimokita said:

Sheesh. That sounds pretty bad. What kind of heinous sins have you been doing lately?

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Didn’t some guy that wrote a “small portion” of the NT, call themselves the Chiefest Of Sinners?

Were you joking, here?

Grip Docility said:

Didn’t some guy that wrote a “small portion” of the NT, call themselves the Chiefest Of Sinners?

We’re you joking, here?

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LOL. Somewhat joking and somewhat serious. St. Paul WAS pretty bad at least before his conversion. Certainly worse than St. Peter and some of the others, from what we know.

Now I am not sitting here and saying that I am up there with St. Mary. But I ain't down there with Stalin either. I ain't killing people by the thousands. There are levels to how bad a person is, and that level depends on what they do. That was what I was trying to get at.