Why did Adam and Eve sin if there was no sin?
- Thread starter DM25
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Then what's the knowledge of good and evil if it isn't knowledge of sin? And why does scripture make it sound like there was no knowledge of sin? (As Adam and Eve only knew they were naked after they ate the apple).
Not that I'm implying they didn't sin or disobey willfully, but if they knew no sin (only knew sin like the fact they were naked after they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil), why did they sin in the garden? As there was no sin?
That brings me back to my original theory. They were in some "neutral zone" where sin can happen even before they took the bite. As they did not eat from the tree of life yet.
(Hopefully I'm making more sense and I hope you guys realize the question is hard to answer... So I'm looking for different perspectives).
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fhansen
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If I may, there's been some pretty good speculation on this from the past. The knowledge of good and evil could be just that, the literal knowledge, i.e. experience, of good and evil, the very first experience of evil being the very sin that changed their whole state of being. Prior to that they had known only good, since everything in creation is good to begin with. But the experience of evil-including all sin/evil that would immediately follow in their brave new world, brought good into focus, and therefore into contrast. Prior to that loss of innocence there may not have even been a word for good, much less a concept of it since, again, everything was good anyway. But now they had knowledge that God had: the reality of good and the reality of evil. Man continues to experience-or know-both to this day.
And this knowledge does have a benefit-that of helping us identify and choose between the two-to shun evil and run to the good like Prodigals who've grown weary of life away from the father, and so ultimately back to the Ultimate Good and source of all good: God, Himself, the good that Adam dismissed by denying His authority, and therefore His godhood.
Anyway, this theory aligns with the Hebrew word used for knowledge here, "yada", which is often used to denote this very idea: direct, intimate knowledge such as carnal knowledge, to know one's mate in the intimate sense for example. The OT uses the word in that case and similarly in others here and there.
In any case, the act itself was the first act of disobedience of God, the equivalent of determining good and evil, right and wrong, for themselves, which is itself equivalent to them becoming their own "gods" for all practical purposes. And that's the world we find ourselves in today, a world where man's will effectively reigns -for better or worse but definitely for worse when it results in the sin that is so prevalent in our world.
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- Mar 26, 2017
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It's okay. I was just trying to answer the question. I could have worded it better. Like what do you think of this instead of what I said. I've studied the matter before and that's why I was so blunt. I was trying to be as specific as possible with the fewest words. I'm sorry it came off arrogant or blunt.
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They didn't know the difference between good and evil as such, but they did know that God had commanded them not to eat from that tree. He even told them why. He said the day they eat from it they would shurly die. And when they did eat of it they did die spiritually. They were cut off from God. And as you know that set off God's plan of redemption. God's command had initiated a covenant of law. God would watch over them and commune with them for eternity as long as they kept his command of not eating from the tree. His side of the covenant was being with them and communing with them forever and their side was not eating from the tree. They had one thing not to do and as we know they messed it up. Their transgression of His command / law was the original and first sin. They were indeed in a sort of grey area before sinning as they had a special covenant that was special only to them. Once they sinned by transgression of God's command they brought upon a curse to all mankind and all mankind was born under sin and the sin nature of Adam. The knowledge of good and evil was a curse in itself as mankind was predisposed to evil. If you tell a 5 year old not to eat the ice cream it will only make them want to eat it. Such is the knowledge of good and evil..
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- Mar 15, 2014
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What makes it confusing is that the word in Romans 5:13 for law - nomou - can mean laws in general 'and or' it could mean The Mosaic Law, and I'm sure The Mosaic Law is what Paul had in mind. Paul does acknowledge the difference it seems by saying in vs 5:14 '..Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses" And Paul is talking of Torah throughout the rest of the text also.
Adams sin was imputed on all men, or the penalty of death certainly was, for disobeying Gods first law/commandment.
God did 'command' Adam with a law, and punished other law breakers seemingly 'before' Moses came i.e Sodom, Pharaoh and Abrams wife, Cain.
The 'knowledge of good and evil' is a theme that continues to run throughout scripture. To discern between good and bad, right and wrong, wise and foolish, life or death, love and hate, knowing or not knowing God, etc.
Adams sin was imputed on all men, or the penalty of death certainly was, for disobeying Gods first law/commandment.
God did 'command' Adam with a law, and punished other law breakers seemingly 'before' Moses came i.e Sodom, Pharaoh and Abrams wife, Cain.
The 'knowledge of good and evil' is a theme that continues to run throughout scripture. To discern between good and bad, right and wrong, wise and foolish, life or death, love and hate, knowing or not knowing God, etc.
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1213
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I have understood sin means that person rejects God, or lives apart from God. Jesus came to restore the connection and so removed sin, from those who received him. And I believe people will have free will in heaven. They could reject God, but they don’t want to do that.
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How could we reject God in heaven if there will be no sin? There's no way we will have free will to sin... And we should be grateful at that. We will have glorified bodies not capable of sin. So no, we won't have free will to sin. There will be no sin. And that's good news. We will have free will to do whatever else we want, just not sin. Sin won't even be on our minds.
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DM25 I too can 'presume' that there will be no sin in heaven (the new Earth). What verse(s) are you thinking of?
(I believe we can only 'deduce' this from scripture)
Same thing for freewill, technically its hard to call something freewill if you cant do something that 'seems' physically 'possible' (unlike say humans flying, humans can't fly). I don't know of a scripture that says something like 'There's no way we will have free will to sin...' or 'we won't have free will to sin' What scriptures are you thinking of?
(I believe we can only 'deduce' this from scripture)
Same thing for freewill, technically its hard to call something freewill if you cant do something that 'seems' physically 'possible' (unlike say humans flying, humans can't fly). I don't know of a scripture that says something like 'There's no way we will have free will to sin...' or 'we won't have free will to sin' What scriptures are you thinking of?
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Obviously there isn't sin in heaven, the bible says those who are born of the seed of God (our spirit) CAN'T sin. It literally says can't in the KJV, not "won't practice sin". This shows our spirit selves are incapable of sin. Therefore there will be no more sin in heaven, because God will be there and he is perfect and sinless as he always was, and we will be there perfect and sinless in our new glorified bodies. It also says "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." at the end of Revelation.
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fhansen
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Yes, I think we'd benefit from having an understanding- as best we can-of just how much God wants for us. In some classic teachings from the past, God, Himself, is the absolute fulfillment of all human desire. We just don't understand that fully until we meet or "see" Him directly and know fully just as we are fully known, to paraphrase 1 Cor 13. We try to satisfy this innate desire for happiness in a myriad of ways-sometimes wrong- here on earth but to no lasting and totally satisfying avail. But it's the same basic quest-and it's achievable! And only He can accomplish it in us. "God alone satisfies." Thomas Aquinas
Then there's nothing left-because there's nothing more-for the will to desire.
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Wrong. We CAN'T sin, the bible says so. No we are not free to sin, God won't let us. Satan won't even be there. There will be no sin. Why in the world do you think someone can sin in heaven? It makes no sense. Nowhere in scripture does it say we have free will to sin in heaven....
On another note, why do you think being "free" in a positive context means free to sin? You really think freedom needs to be related to the ability to sin? Come on man...
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Because it's not his will right now. He wants people to go through a test. And he wants people to believe in his promises. It's all according to his plan. But he promises in heaven it won't be the same.
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fhansen
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I agree. He wants us to be refined, but I think it's the will that's being refined mainly. As we taste of the world's offerings, including experiencing the evil/sin that results when the Master's gone away, so to speak, which is essentially the situation we find ourselves in here in this life, we're to develop a taste for something better, to hunger and thirst more and more for true righteousness and be increasingly oriented ourselves towards it. Our wills are then already moved towards the right direction and He finishes that off in the next life, however He does it. I just think that the main difference will be that we'll finally be home, and know it, such will the contrast be, so completely overwhelming and overpowering will the presence of God be.
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Sorry I thought I answered this but do not see it anywhere???
God would definitely have free will since He is all powerful, but God will only do the one best most loving thing all the time.
Angels have free will and it was demonstrated when a third followed after satan.
We along with the angels need free will in heaven so we can continue to Love God out of our own choice to do so. If our free will was removed the Love we would be extending to God would be no better than a robotic type love.
The reason we sin on earth and the reason we will not sin in heaven is another question and takes lots of words to address.
Free will is a very limited gift only mature adults have which God provides to allow humans to fulfill their earthly objective. It is very unique limited autonomous ability to mentally choose to accept or reject God’s Love in the form of forgiveness.
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Wait "a test"? So if we pass the test we go to heaven and if we fail the test we go to hell?
Do you see this as man's objective while here on earth?
How are you defining "His will"?
you might read my post 57 also.
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Some Christians today "want" these things, but still sin, so it will take more to keep from sinning?
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fhansen
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The difference is that what we want is really made evident by what we do. We can say we want anything-but in truth we may well worship the creature more than the Creator. Talk is cheap. In heaven we genuinely want only God because we finally know Him "face to face". He completely satiates any and all hunger and thirst.
Sin is evidence of lack of love in some area, love for God and also for neighbor. We should begin to move towards love in this life-and are "equipped" as Christians to do so. But the flesh is weak, and we're suspicious that we may "miss out" if we give in to God and give up pet sins. But the more we know Him the more we love Him and the things of this world then grow dimmer. But it's hard-it's a process that takes time. And it can be easier for people to just throw up their hands instead and say, 'Oh well, I'm just a snow-covered dung-heap, forgiven due to my faith but unable to refrain from sin.' That's not the gospel, however. God helps us, with grace, to move on wards and upwards overall even if we slip back now and then-and expects and even demands that as part of our Christian walk. We're "new creations", not just forgiven worthless worms. But His demand is only a good one: simply that we love-and His promise is that He'll build that justice in us as we're willing to accept it, as we're able to recognize and value it as superior to the sin that otherwise tempts us away from love, away from Him.
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