What is obedience to the gospel?

Bible Highlighter · May 26, 2019

What is obedience to the gospel?

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 says, "When the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power."

Please take note that this is essential to one's salvation. It says those who do not obey the gospel will be punished with everlasting destruction.

I believe the gospel is defined for us in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. It is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. In context, 1 Corinthians 15 is talking about "believing the gospel" (See 1 Corinthians 15:11).

But there is another kind of thing we must do besides believe the gospel. It is called "obeying the gospel."

So again, what is obeying the gospel?

I believe it is defined for us in Scripture:

Obeying the Death of Jesus Christ:

Crucify the affections and lusts:
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Galatians 5:24).

Take up your cross (Die to self):
"And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38).
I see the "taking up your cross" as this: "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." (Romans 12:1-2).

We should be dead to grievous sin's effects and we should no longer live in any kind of grievous sin anymore:
1 "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? " (Romans 6:1-2).

6 "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Romans 6:6-7).

Obeying the Resurrection of Jesus Christ:

"...that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life" (Romans 6:4).

"For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:" (Romans 6:5).

Side Note:

I believe the "death/burial" is also symbolic of Spirit baptism as per Romans 6:3-4. Granted, in this passage it sounds like water baptism and indeed it is referring to water baptism. But that is how they accepted the Lord back then and receive Spirit baptism. Paul said elswhere that he came not to baptize. So obviously we NEED to be baptized as per obeying the death aspect part of the gospel. We need to crucify the affections and lusts. This can happen when a person accepts Jesus as their Savior and they believe in His death and resurrection for salvation. It can happen when a believer seeks forgiveness of their sins with the Lord Jesus Christ and they crucify the affections and lusts in their life by the power of the Lord.

For if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9).

Hammster · May 26, 2019

2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
4 Did you suffer so many things in vain-if indeed it was in vain?
5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith-
6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"? - Galatians 3:2-6

So if we are justified by faith, why try to add works to that? We shouldn’t.

friend of · May 26, 2019

Hebrews 5:9

friend of · May 26, 2019

Acts of the Apostles 13:39

Presbyterian Continuist · May 26, 2019

Hammster said:
2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
4 Did you suffer so many things in vain-if indeed it was in vain?
5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith-
6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"? - Galatians 3:2-6

So if we are justified by faith, why try to add works to that? We shouldn’t.

In support of your post: Verse 3 is very interesting.
What Paul is referring to is when they were first converted to Christ, but instead of saying, "When you first received Christ...etc., he says, "Did you receive the Spirit?" This means that he is thinking in harmony with the examples in Acts when people received Christ and were filled with the Spirit at the same time. In fact, being converted to Christ, in his view, was receiving the Spirit. What this tells me is that Paul had no idea of a second blessing of receiving the Spirit after conversion. His view was that conversion to Christ was the baptism with the Spirit. I find that interesting.

There are churches that believe that the baptism with the Spirit comes after conversion as a separate experience. But there are just two references that seem to support that:
"Tarry in Jerusalem until you be endued with power from on high"
and
"Have you received the Spirit since you believed?"
Now, if we do an exegesis (which is finding out how the people at the time, in the First Century understood it), we see that they understood that they had to wait in Jerusalem until they received the Spirit. Now we have to decide whether that is cultural-limited or transcultural. If we decide that it is transcultural, then we have to believe that the only way we can receive the Spirit is to go to Jerusalem and wait there until we are endued with power from on high. If we decide that it is cultural-limited to that particular time and location, then we have to assume that people, today, will receive the Spirit another way and not to go to Jerusalem at all. And to use good hermeneutics (that is interpreting the Scripture according to our time, culture and mind-set), we would conclude that we don't have to "tarry" to receive the Holy Spirit at all!

The second reference to submit to exegesis is to examine who these disciples were whom Paul asked the question. We discover that they were disciples of John the Baptiser, and they didn't know of any Holy Spirit. So these disciples had their faith in the Messiah to come, and when Paul explained Jesus to them, they got the point and immediately were filled with the Spirit.

So, we can again use good hermeneutics and conclude that when we share the gospel of Christ and people receive Christ they are immediately baptised in the Holy Spirit and can speak in tongues and prophesy on the spot!

(As a side point, there are others who through exegesis acknowledge that speaking in tongues and prophesying were manifest in First Century believers was quite true, but using their hermeneutics have decided that tongues and prophecy are not for our modern churches).

So, I just wanted to make that point - that people either have the Holy Spirit and are converted, or they don't have the Holy Spirit and therefore are not converted. So, my exegesis tells me that Paul did not believe that a person could be a Christian and not have the Holy Spirit.

This might be a bit off topic, but I found it quite interesting to mention!

d taylor · May 26, 2019

Obeying the Gospel, is believing that Jesus is the promised Messiah from Old Testament prophecies and trusting in Jesus for the gift of the Messiahs eternal life.

God states if you want eternal life then believe that Jesus is the promised Messiah. That is the obedience God is speaking of. Obey His command for eternal life.

He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Akita Suggagaki · May 27, 2019

Simple, "I give you a new command:Love one another as I have loved you."

Bible Highlighter · May 27, 2019

Hammster said:
2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
4 Did you suffer so many things in vain-if indeed it was in vain?
5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith-
6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"? - Galatians 3:2-6

So if we are justified by faith, why try to add works to that? We shouldn’t.

The context of Paul's words here are in reference to fighting against the heresy of "Circumcision Salvationism." Certain Christians were being deceived by a select group of Jews that they needed to be circumcised in order to be saved. So they were making "circumcision" the basis and foundation of their salvation and not faith in Jesus Christ as the foundation of their faith.

We can see Paul was fighting against Circumcision Salvationism in these verses here:

Galatians 2:3 says, “But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:”
Galatians 5:2 says, “Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.”
Galatians 5:6 says, “For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.”
Galatians 6:15 (NLT) says, “It doesn't matter whether we have been circumcised or not. What counts is whether we have been transformed into a new creation.”
1 Corinthians 7:18-19 says, 18 For instance, a man who was circumcised before he became a believer should not try to reverse it. And the man who was uncircumcised when he became a believer should not be circumcised now. (NLT) 19 “Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.” (NASB)
Romans 2:28-29 says, “For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.”
Romans 3:1 says, “What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?”
Romans 4:9-12 says, ”9 “Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.”
Acts of the Apostles 21:21 says, “And they are informed of you, that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.”

Circumcision Salvationism was a problem that was addressed at the Jerusalem counsel:

Acts of the Apostles 15:1 says, “And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.”
Acts of the Apostles 15:5 says, But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”
Acts of the Apostles 15:24 says, “Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”

Hence, this is why Paul spoke in the way that he did. Paul was referring to those who trying to be saved by circumcision or by the Law of Moses (i.e. the 613 laws as a contract) when believers in Jesus were under a new contract or New Covenant. Paul is not referring to the necessity of obedience to Christ's commands that follow God's grace within the New Covenant. Paul always referred to the Old Law and not the New Law when he referred to the "law" in a generic sense. Just read the context or the surrounding words every time the word "law" (in the generic sense) appears and this becomes evident.

Bible Highlighter · May 27, 2019

friend of said:
Hebrews 5:9

Right. Obedience to the commands of Jesus Christ and His followers (that we have from the New Covenant Scriptures). This lines up with 1 John 1:7. For if we walk in the light, as He (Christ) is in the light, the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. Walking in the light is the equivalent of loving your brother (See 1 John 2:9-11).

Bible Highlighter · May 27, 2019

friend of said:
Acts of the Apostles 13:39

Right. The 613 Old Testament Law of Moses does not apply anymore as a whole or contractually speaking. We are under a New Covenant with New Commands.

Many think that the word "law" (in a generic sense) mentioned by Paul refers to ALL Law in general, when this is not the case. Paul was referring to how we are not justified by the Old Law. Believers need to follow Jesus and obey His commands after being saved by His grace through faith. It is a part of the Sanctification process (Which is the next step in the salvation process).

Bible Highlighter · May 27, 2019

I also noticed that nobody is really addressing the verses I put forth in my original post (OP).
If they are not saying what I think they mean, then how do you interpret them?

Hammster · May 27, 2019

Jason0047 said:
The context of Paul's words here are in reference to fighting against the heresy of "Circumcision Salvationism."

And that’s where you have failed to understand the gospel.

Bible Highlighter · May 27, 2019

Hammster said:
And that’s where you have failed to understand the gospel.

That's really not an explanation to the verses I put forth.

Hammster · May 27, 2019

Jason0047 said:
That's really not an explanation to the verses I put forth.

Let’s try it this way. Why were the Judaizers wrong for insisting on circumcision?

Bible Highlighter · May 27, 2019

I am not into one sided conversations where I have to keep proving everything while my opponent on the Bible discussion proves nothing. I am happy to answer if the verses I put forth are explained first.

Lost4words · May 27, 2019

What is obedience to the gospel?

Following the teachings of Our Lord Jesus Christ

Hammster · May 27, 2019

Jason0047 said:
I am not into one sided conversations where I have to keep proving everything while my opponent on the Bible discussion proves nothing. I am happy to answer if the verses I put forth are explained first.

You don’t need to answer. But don’t pretend that it’s a one-sided conversation.

Bible Highlighter · May 27, 2019

Hammster said:
You don’t need to answer. But don’t pretend that it’s a one-sided conversation.

Well, we have a difference of opinion about how a Bible discussion should go. You may disagree, but I feel it is fair that if I shared Bible verses, then if the other person disagrees, they should attempt to explain with Scripture why the verses I originally brought forth do not work according to the context and or in light of other verses. I should not have to always be on the defensive in answering questions from my opponent while my opponent does not feel they have to explain the orignal verses I put forth. This is my personal opinion on how a fair Bible discussion or a Scriptural debate should go. If one does not play by this rule, I strive to attempt to leave them alone. For they are not accepting the verses I put forth, then why should I keep putting forth more verses that they are just going to not explain? Such a conversation is going to go nowhere fast.

So again, I challenge you to explain a few of the verses in my OP in why you do not share my view in light of what the context says and in light of the rest of the Bible. If you do that, I will be more than happy to answer your question in turn. So the ball is in your court.

Hammster · May 27, 2019

Jason0047 said:
Well, we have a difference of opinion about how a Bible discussion should go. You may disagree, but I feel it is fair that if I shared Bible verses, then if the other person disagrees, they should attempt to explain with Scripture why the verses I originally brought forth do not work according to the context and or in light of other verses. I should not have to always be on the defensive in answering questions from my opponent while my opponent does not feel they have to explain the orignal verses I put forth. This is my personal opinion on how a fair Bible discussion or a Scriptural debate should go. If one does not play by this rule, I strive to attempt to leave them alone. For they are not accepting the verses I put forth, then why should I keep putting forth more verses that they are just going to not explain? Such a conversation is going to go nowhere fast.

So again, I challenge you to explain a few of the verses in my OP in why you do not share my view in light of what the context says and in light of the rest of the Bible. If you do that, I will be more than happy to answer your question in turn. So the ball is in your court.

Don’t think it’s asking too much for me to address every verse? Especially when we can just look at Galatians and wrap this up? But, if you’d rather write two paragraphs explaining why you won’t answer the question, why not whittle down what you’d like to address. Maybe one or two verses.

Bible Highlighter · May 27, 2019

Hammster said:
Don’t think it’s asking too much for me to address every verse? Especially when we can just look at Galatians and wrap this up? But, if you’d rather write two paragraphs explaining why you won’t answer the question, why not whittle down what you’d like to address. Maybe one or two verses.

I said to explain a few verses. Personally for me: It is a pleasure to explain the Bible. But I am not into continually explaining things if a person is not explaining why they believe the way they do with Scripture. I want to understand why they do not accept the verses that I have put forth.

For when I disagree with an OP of a thread, I usuallly present Scripture explaining why their view is unbiblical, and I strive to show the context of the verse they brought forth, as well.

What is obedience to the gospel?

What is obedience to the gospel?

It is the same thing as believing the gospel.

It is crucifying the affections and lusts and walking in newness of life.

Other. Please explain.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Psalm 144:1

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Psalm 144:1

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Psalm 144:1

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Jesus I Trust In You

Psalm 144:1

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Psalm 144:1

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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