International standard recognizes Sunday as the 7th day of the week...

Robin Mauro said:

And I already know what you are going to say, but ThursDAY he was not in the grave, he was dying on the cross

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no, He died on Friday and was buried BEFORE sunset

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

You are changing your scenario now. You included Thursday previously. Make my case? Scripture makes the case, go read it...

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I am not changing my scenario. I have said he was killed on Thursday from the start.
I have read the scripture many times. It does not in any way, shape or form make your case

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

no, He died on Friday and was buried BEFORE sunset

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I'm done now Derekh

Robin Mauro said:

I am not changing my scenario. I have said he was killed on Thursday from the start.
I have read the scripture many times. It does not in any way, shape or form make your case

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All four gospels agree that Jesus was crucified on παρασκευη/paraskeue which means preparation. Paraskeue was, and is to this day, the name of the the day we call [correction] Friday.

Der Alter said:

All four gospels agree that Jesus was crucified on παρασκευη/paraskeue which means preparation. Paraskeue was, and is to this day, the name of the the day we call Thursday.

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I think you meant to say Friday.

prodromos said:

I think you meant to say Friday.

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Thanks. I corrected it.

Robin Mauro said:

I have read the scripture many times. It does not in any way, shape or form make your case

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How so? Scripture proves a Thursday crucifixion wrong

Robin Mauro said:

I'm done now Derekh

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You were done when you started

Robin Mauro said:

P.S.
Matthew 12:40 - "For as Jonas was in the whale's belly three days and three nights: so shall the son of man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights."
Thus it makes sense that he was killed and buried on Thursday (which also squares with the scriptures about them going to break their legs to kill them so they could take them down before passover, but Jesus had already died)...
So, three nights in the grave might be an easier way for you to grasp what I am saying, Thursday night, Friday night, and Saturday night. If he rose on Sunday, he was not in the grave Sunday night.
Are you capable of even considering that it could be you who is wrong? If not, please consider your pride. God is the only one who knows and understands all. But it seems to me, too many people care aboat appearing to be right, even if they are wrong, more than they care about what is actually true.

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However, Jesus' soul was not left in Hades to see corruption (Ps 16:10)(Acts 2:27,31), but instead, He was resurrected from the dead on the 3rd day(both physically and spiritually he was brought up or resurrected from the “dead”)

frogoon234 said:

How can saturday be the sabbath if it's the 6th day of the week? In the old testament the Sabbath was the 7th day. Genesis chapters 1 and 2.

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By what the Bible tells, the day the tomb was empty, was the first day of the week, and after Shabbat day. If we believe the tomb was empty at Sunday, then in Biblical point of view, Sunday is not the Shabbat day.

Now on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene went early, while it was still dark, to the tomb, and saw the stone taken away from the tomb.
John 20:1 (Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1)

frogoon234 said:

Why do you say that? Different nations or countries probably print different calendars. And the way it is positioned on the calendar is not a biblical concept. Jesus isn't going to hold us accountable due to such a thing. This whole business of people saying we should celebrate the sabbath on the 6th day instead of Sunday is superflous.

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Is it, Frogoon234? Or is it another way to make JHWH, the Eternal God, in our own image? Just wondering. We each get to make our own conclusions with their resultant consequences, so I'm not interested in telling you how to believe. But the way I see it might be useful for your contemplation. (If not, it was free, right?)

Through the years I've been amazed how many times and ways I was caught in the first question: "Has God really said...?" The Sabbath situation is only one of many in my life. The world can do whatever the world does, but for any who are interested in this particular JHWH, the I AM, and obedience to Him rather than our own conclusions, whether one looks in the OT or NT, there is high support for a particular day, regardless what other people have called it subsequently. There's more if you are interested.

I just found this thread this morning, and I stopped at this post to address it with my response. Now I'll return and read what everyone else has already said.

frogoon234 said:

Some churches claim that when the anti christ comes, that he will entice people to fall away from christianity because they accepted the wrong sabbath day.

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I would guess this to be the crux of your post, Frogoon234, and it's a reasonable premise for bringing this question up. People have long tried to use any means to have power over other people, often forming groups that draw lines to either include or exclude others. I would encourage you, if you were my kid (cuz I'm old and have adult children so that's how I think) to remember that God made you with the facilities that you have with the task to consider what He says and act on it. This is your adventure. Any group, whether they have it "right" or not, is totally inconsequential to your own thoughts and beliefs that lead to your choices and the consequences that will follow. Our acceptance to God is not based at all on our alignment with any group but on the sacrifice of the body and blood of our Savior, Jesus Christ, God's beloved Son. To be fair, historically few, if any, groups have had it "right" for very long. Even the earliest disciples/apostles had some serious discussions and disagreements between then. Our recent generations have been particularly blessed in having copies of the testimonies we can hold in our own hands and study to our heart's content. We are called to obedience, so I'll always encourage you to study what God said because He doesn't change. If you keep that in mind, that He doesn't change, as you study, you'll further the understanding you already appear to have from what I'm seeing in your posts that God has called us to a sensible life that works if we follow His instructions.

Again, I've stopped here at your post #47 to provide feedback as I continue to look through the other comments. You've raised a good question and have gotten some interesting feedback. Thanks for bringing it up!

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Sunday never became the Sabbath. He died on Friday, rested in the tomb on the Sabbath and rose on Sunday. He rose on the 3rd day.

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There is a thought that tends to resonate with me, so I'd like your input on it, Yeshua HaDerekh. Since the Jewish holidays were basically lunar in that they followed the months which were noted by the start of the new moon, then the, say, 14th day of a month could fall on various points of the seven day Sabbath cycle and be different each year. Are you following that? For example, for Americans it's like the 4th of July happens on the 4th, not always on a certain day of the week. We're used to that. So in the year our Savior was crucified, it is possible that year that the Passover was actually a Thursday, starting at even of Wednesday. The first Passover was held in the Israelites' homes and among groups of neighbors, but later, at least after JHWH established His name in Jerusalem, people came there and the task of preparation of those hundreds and hundreds of lambs was done by the priesthood. So Wednesday would have been the slaughter day, the preparation for the dinner to be held after sunset (Wednesday even) and this would have been a Sabbath to JHWH. It would have been fitting for our Savior, the Lamb of God taking away the sins of the world, to die that day, and in order not to break the Sabbath, the observant Jews rushed to get His body laid away as best they could before sunset. Then they rested on the Sabbath of Passover, Wednesday even to Thursday even. The next day (Friday) the women prepared spices, but they rested again on the Sabbath, and this one would have been the usual weekly Sabbath. Early on the first day of the week, Mary went to the tomb and found it empty.

Along with this is another Jewish festival, the start of the Feast of Weeks. It's entirely possible that Mary went to the tomb and found it empty on the First of the Weeks, because this would have been the first day of the countdown to Pentecost. Either way, since Pentecost was the morrow after the Sabbath, this would have been to us a Sunday. Would this put our Savior in the tomb for more than three days and three nights, which He said He'd be? Not necessarily. Nobody saw His resurrection. Consider whether the preparation of the Wave offering would fit into what Yeshua fulfilled. After even on Saturday, the grain would have been harvested, prepared during the night or the early morning, and offered as the Wave Offering of the First Fruits at the appropriate time on Sunday. Isn't Yeshua the First Fruits according to Hebrews?

When I read the story this way, it makes sense to my logical time-oriented mind and doesn't require any mental gymnastics to make sense. I mention this because through the years I've heard various ways of explaining how to get three days and three nights into Friday afternoon to Sunday and I found it hard to be convinced. Looking at it this way satisfied my mind in the same way the orderliness of the universe points to His great love for us. It also places an emphasis on the plan of God which He was showing mankind from the beginning, emphasizing the fulfillment in our Messiah.

As you can see I'm only up to post #64 in reading through this interesting thread. I certainly don't mean to hijack the thread but simply offer some insight that might be useful to the OP as well as to you, YH'D. Again, all thoughts offered are free. This is just my conclusions from the evidence as I've seen so far. Feel free to share thoughts and remember, it's your God-given privilege and task to decide for yourself from the evidence provided.

hedrick said:

Does anyone here know about the early Church tradition, in which Sunday was considered the 8th day?

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The Eighth Day idea came up recently when I looked at the Levitical festivals (chapter 23). They were week long - with an extra day. It triggered a lot of thinking. I'm only up to this post, #63, Hedrick, but if you haven't done so already (and I plan to keep reading the rest of this thread, so if it's here, I should find it), I'd be interested to hear your story of the Eighth Day, or perhaps you could start a new thread on it. If you are going to share what I suspect might be involved, it will be an interesting sharing!

Greengardener said:

There is a thought that tends to resonate with me, so I'd like your input on it, Yeshua HaDerekh. Since the Jewish holidays were basically lunar in that they followed the months which were noted by the start of the new moon, then the, say, 14th day of a month could fall on various points of the seven day Sabbath cycle and be different each year. Are you following that? For example, for Americans it's like the 4th of July happens on the 4th, not always on a certain day of the week. We're used to that. So in the year our Savior was crucified, it is possible that year that the Passover was actually a Thursday, starting at even of Wednesday. The first Passover was held in the Israelites' homes and among groups of neighbors, but later, at least after JHWH established His name in Jerusalem, people came there and the task of preparation of those hundreds and hundreds of lambs was done by the priesthood. So Wednesday would have been the slaughter day, the preparation for the dinner to be held after sunset (Wednesday even) and this would have been a Sabbath to JHWH. It would have been fitting for our Savior, the Lamb of God taking away the sins of the world, to die that day, and in order not to break the Sabbath, the observant Jews rushed to get His body laid away as best they could before sunset. Then they rested on the Sabbath of Passover, Wednesday even to Thursday even. The next day (Friday) the women prepared spices, but they rested again on the Sabbath, and this one would have been the usual weekly Sabbath. Early on the first day of the week, Mary went to the tomb and found it empty.

Along with this is another Jewish festival, the start of the Feast of Weeks. It's entirely possible that Mary went to the tomb and found it empty on the First of the Weeks, because this would have been the first day of the countdown to Pentecost. Either way, since Pentecost was the morrow after the Sabbath, this would have been to us a Sunday. Would this put our Savior in the tomb for more than three days and three nights, which He said He'd be? Not necessarily. Nobody saw His resurrection. Consider whether the preparation of the Wave offering would fit into what Yeshua fulfilled. After even on Saturday, the grain would have been harvested, prepared during the night or the early morning, and offered as the Wave Offering of the First Fruits at the appropriate time on Sunday. Isn't Yeshua the First Fruits according to Hebrews?

When I read the story this way, it makes sense to my logical time-oriented mind and doesn't require any mental gymnastics to make sense. I mention this because through the years I've heard various ways of explaining how to get three days and three nights into Friday afternoon to Sunday and I found it hard to be convinced. Looking at it this way satisfied my mind in the same way the orderliness of the universe points to His great love for us. It also places an emphasis on the plan of God which He was showing mankind from the beginning, emphasizing the fulfillment in our Messiah.

As you can see I'm only up to post #64 in reading through this interesting thread. I certainly don't mean to hijack the thread but simply offer some insight that might be useful to the OP as well as to you, YH'D. Again, all thoughts offered are free. This is just my conclusions from the evidence as I've seen so far. Feel free to share thoughts and remember, it's your God-given privilege and task to decide for yourself from the evidence provided.

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Shavuah Tov!
Please do not get hung up on 72 hrs. At differing places it was said "on the 3rd day", "in 3 days", etc. Yeshua also said "Destroy this temple and I will rebuild it IN 3 DAYS". We also know exactly when because we have witnesses on the road to Emmaus. They said that Sunday was the 3rd day since the events occurred on the 14th. That means the 14th was on a Friday, the day of preparation. The weekly Sabbath was on the 15th. So a Wednesday crucifixion was impossible.

"During the Sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathæa had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord’s day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, “As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord’s Day contains the resurrection" (The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians Longer Versions. Chapter IX.—Reference to the history of Christ.)

People get confused with Jesus having to be dead for 72 hours. However---it actually stsrted to die at Gethsemane. Jonah was not dead inside the whale---
Mat_26:38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

Just like how we understand "head of cattle" to mean "whole cattle" and not just the heads, Jews understood "a day and a night" to mean any part of a day. "Three days and three nights" means starting on one day, passing through a second and ending on the third. Synecdoche is a very common figure of speech we use all the time, and it is no less common in the Scriptures.

Greengardener said:

The Eighth Day idea came up recently when I looked at the Levitical festivals (chapter 23). They were week long - with an extra day. It triggered a lot of thinking. I'm only up to this post, #63, Hedrick, but if you haven't done so already (and I plan to keep reading the rest of this thread, so if it's here, I should find it), I'd be interested to hear your story of the Eighth Day, or perhaps you could start a new thread on it. If you are going to share what I suspect might be involved, it will be an interesting sharing!

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I don't think the eighth day in scripture is a reference to an eight day week, but a reference to the first day of the week, or as a counted day.

Circumcision was to happen on the eighth day after birth. Jesus even questioned the experts in the law about this. (it was lawful work when that eighth day was the sabbath) Furthermore, early Christian writings refer to the eighth day as a day of gathering the church, the queen of days, the day of our Lord's resurrection, the Lord's Day, Sunday.

John 7:23
Now if a boy can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing a man’s whole body on the Sabbath?

Leviticus 12:3
On the eighth day the boy is to be circumcised.


Philippians 3:5
circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee;

frogoon234 said:

Sunday is the seventh day of the week according to the international standard ISO 8601.

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Not sure if it has been mentioned, but this could be yet another anti-Israel move to put the world at odds with Israel as we move toward the end. And a general statement against Judeo-Christian religion.

frogoon234 said:

: “Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:19).

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The question is, what is meant by "these commands"? And which is "the least" of these commands?