Did the event of 1948 Israel fulfill any Bible prophecy?

Dave L · May 26, 2019

ItIsFinished! said:
I agree that what it teaches is absolutely false, but you nor anyone can deny that it doesn't exist.
Presently the majority of churches teach RT.

It is a lie therefore it doesn't exist. Many are deceived by the lie.

Dave L · May 26, 2019

ItIsFinished! said:
No.
The Church and Israel are separate.

Jesus is Israel in the New Covenant. Along with those who believe in him = Seed of Abraham = Israel.

LittleLambofJesus · May 26, 2019

ItIsFinished! said: ↑
Not false, not a scheme.
However Replacement Theology/ Supersessionism is false .
Dave, do you believe the Church replaced Israel?

It was the OC Priesthood and Temple services that was replaced by the NC Kings and Priests whom worship in Spirit.
Read Malachi and Hebrews.......

OC Mosaic Priesthood cursed forever?

Malachi 2
1 “And now, O priests, this command is for you. 2 If you will not listen, if you will not take it to heart to give honor to my name, says the Lord of hosts, then I will send the curse upon you and I will curse your blessings. Indeed, I have already cursed them, because you do not lay it to heart.
7 For the lips of a Priest should guard knowledge, and people should seek instruction from his mouth, for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts.
8 But you have turned aside from the Way. You have caused many to stumble by your instruction. You have corrupted the covenant of Levi, says the Lord of hosts, 9 and so I make you despised and abased before all the people, inasmuch as you do not keep my ways but show partiality in your instruction.”

Hebrews 7:12
For being translated/changed<3346> the Priesthood, out of necessity also, of Law a translation/change<3331> is becoming

Revelation 1:6
And makes us a Kingdom of Priests[*Kings and Priests] to the God and Father of Him. To Him the glory and the holding into the ages of the ages, Amen.

Rom 10:12
For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Col 3:11
where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.

Dave L said: ↑
The Church IS Israel and the unbelievers were cut off.

Douggg said: ↑
Dave, who is the fig tree in the parable of the fig tree Jesus talked about in Matthew 24 ?

Dave L said:
It speaks of the end of the world. But to make it say more than this = adding to scripture.

Rather, the full end of the age.

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:3
Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us!
when shall these be being?
and what the sign of Thy parousia<3952> and full-end<4930> of the Age?
Mark 13
3 And of sitting of Him into the Mount of the Olives over against the Temple,
Peter and James and John and Andrew inquired<1905> of Him according to own
4 Tell us! when these shall be?
and what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> all these to be fully concluded<4931>.
Luke 21
7 They inquire yet of Him saying “Teacher!
when then shall these be being?
And what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> these to becoming<1096>?

===============================

Matthew 24:32
Yet from the fig-tree be ye learning! the parable:
Whenever already its branch may be becoming tender, and the leaves may be sprouting<1631>,
ye are knowing that nigh the summer
Mark 13:28
‘Yet from the fig-tree, be ye learning the parable.
When the branch of it tender may be becoming, and may be sprouting<1631> the leaves,
ye are knowing that nigh is the summer
Luke 21:
29 And He told a parable to them. Be seeing the fig-tree and all the trees,
30 whenever they should be budding<4261> already observing from yourselves
ye are knowing thru that already nigh is the summer

Fig tree is also shown in Revelation, showing that all of the covenantle book Revelation pertains to the land of Israel, Judah/Judea and Jerusalem, NOT the whole world.

Rev 6:13
And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.

www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

Luke xxi. 11, "Wars and rumours of wars," &c. These commotions, like distant thunder, that forebodes the approaching storm,
"At first heard solemn o'er the verge of heaven,"
were so frequent from the death of our Lord until the destruction of Jerusalem,that whole interval might, with propriety, appealed to, in illustration of this prophecy....................................

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.............

The vial of divine wrath, which had been so long pouring out upon this devoted city was now emptying, and JERUSALEM, once "a praise in all the earth," and the subject of a thousand prophecies, deprived of' the staff of life, wrapt in flames, and bleeding on every side sunk into utter ruin and desolation.
This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A. D. 70 :
its duration was nearly five months, the Romans having invested the city on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding.

Grip Docility · May 26, 2019

Dave L said:
You are failing to understand Israel in the New Covenant.

Israel was the mechanism that God used to raise up His (100% Human/100% God) Incarnation's Mother.

Israel is God the Father's Bride and God the Son's Mother.

You're failing to understand the purpose of the New Covenant.

Could God Forgive Sin before Jesus died on the Cross?

Grip Docility · May 26, 2019

Dave L said:
Jesus is Israel in the New Covenant. Along with those who believe in him = Seed of Abraham = Israel.

Abraham isn't Jacob! Romans 11 Specifies Jacob for a Reason!

It is sloppy exegesis to confuse Abraham with Jacob!

Abraham is to the New Jerusalem (Through Jesus)
Jacob is to the Current Jerusalem (Through Jacob's descendants)

This is elementary! Nowhere is scripture, and I mean NOWHERE does it say otherwise!

Jacob is to "Thy Seeds"
Abraham is to "Thy Seed (Singular)" <- Paul affirms this!

Israel started the BOC! Israel became the first fruits of the BOC... Because all lose identity in Jesus... Just as scripture says... and Ephesians 2 Affirms, Jews carnally remain Jews within the BOC, but lose their identity "Spiritually", in Christ, and are Merely part of the BOC!

If the BOC were Israel, it would be a WIDOW! Israel Divorced it's Husband and forsook it's King.

Do you Forsake your King?

Israel is WAITING for it's King. The BOC is One with it's King! How is this complicated?

Apples aren't Oranges!

Jacob isn't Abraham! How in the Sheol do people get this so mixed up!

I'll tell you... Disturbed theology that attempts to exalt itself as the Truth (When Jesus IS the Truth) had to hijack Israel's election to make it's false premises fit!

Make a list of fringe Theology and I promise you... and I mean PROMISE you... that Suppression is at it's core.

OldWiseGuy · May 26, 2019

jgr said:
Both (and all) fulfilled in and bequeathed to Christ.

2 Corinthians 1
20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Hebrews 1
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

That doesn't abrogate the birthright promises made to Joseph.

OldWiseGuy · May 26, 2019

jgr said:
Where?

In Christ, they are. (Galatians 3:29)

The promise of salvation only, not the birthright promise. Salvation is of grace, the birthright is of the law of inheritance.

Grip Docility · May 26, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
It was the OC Priesthood and Temple services that was replaced by the NC Kings and Priests whom worship in Spirit.
Read Malachi and Hebrews.......

OC Mosaic Priesthood cursed forever?

Hebrews 7:12
For being translated/changed<3346> the Priesthood, out of necessity also, of Law a translation/change<3331> is becoming

Revelation 1:6
And makes us a Kingdom of Priests[*Kings and Priests] to the God and Father of Him. To Him the glory and the holding into the ages of the ages, Amen.

Rather, the full end of the age.

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:3
Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us!
when shall these be being?
and what the sign of Thy parousia<3952> and full-end<4930> of the Age?
Mark 13
3 And of sitting of Him into the Mount of the Olives over against the Temple,
Peter and James and John and Andrew inquired<1905> of Him according to own
4 Tell us! when these shall be?
and what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> all these to be fully concluded<4931>.
Luke 21
7 They inquire yet of Him saying “Teacher!
when then shall these be being?
And what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> these to becoming<1096>?

===============================

Matthew 24:32
Yet from the fig-tree be ye learning! the parable:
Whenever already its branch may be becoming tender, and the leaves may be sprouting<1631>,
ye are knowing that nigh the summer
Mark 13:28
‘Yet from the fig-tree, be ye learning the parable.
When the branch of it tender may be becoming, and may be sprouting<1631> the leaves,
ye are knowing that nigh is the summer
Luke 21:
29 And He told a parable to them. Be seeing the fig-tree and all the trees,
30 whenever they should be budding<4261> already observing from yourselves
ye are knowing thru that already nigh is the summer

Fig tree is also shown in Revelation, showing that all of the covenantle book Revelation pertains to the land of Israel, Judah/Judea and Jerusalem, NOT the whole world.

Rev 6:13
And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.

www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

Luke xxi. 11, "Wars and rumours of wars," &c. These commotions, like distant thunder, that forebodes the approaching storm,
"At first heard solemn o'er the verge of heaven,"
were so frequent from the death of our Lord until the destruction of Jerusalem,that whole interval might, with propriety, appealed to, in illustration of this prophecy....................................

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.............

The vial of divine wrath, which had been so long pouring out upon this devoted city was now emptying, and JERUSALEM, once "a praise in all the earth," and the subject of a thousand prophecies, deprived of' the staff of life, wrapt in flames, and bleeding on every side sunk into utter ruin and desolation.
This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A. D. 70 :
its duration was nearly five months, the Romans having invested the city on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding.

Aha! Now I'm beginning to see where you are coming from a little more clearly.

Yet you don't see Israel as Real...

I'm so confused!

LittleLambofJesus · May 26, 2019

jgr said: ↑
Both (and all) fulfilled in and bequeathed to Christ.

2 Corinthians 1
20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Hebrews 1
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

OldWiseGuy said:
That doesn't abrogate the birthright promises made to Joseph.

Of course not.
God even included him the covenantle book of Revelation

Curiously, Paul's tribe of Benjamin is listed last in order both here and in the original tribes of Jacob/Israel.

Revelation 7:4 I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the children of Israel: [House/Kingdom of Judah]

1. Judah = "I will praise the Lord" 2. Reuben = "He has looked on me" 3. Gad = "Granted good fortune" 4. Asher = "Happy am I" 5. Naphtali = "My wrestling" 6. Manasseh = "Making me to forget" 7. Simeon = "God hears me" 8. Levi = "Joined to me" 9. Issachar = "Purchased Me" 10. Zebulun = "Dwelling" 11. Joseph = "God will add to me" 12. Benjamin = "Son of His right hand"

12 Original Tribes

1. Reuben = "He has looked upon me" 2. Simeon = "God hears me" 3. Levi = "Joined to me" 4. Judah = "I praise the Lord" 5. Dan = "God has judged me and heard my voice" 6. Naphtali = "my wrestling" 7. Gad = "granted good fortune" 8. Asher = "happy am I" 9. Issachar = "purchased me" 10. Zebulun = "a dwelling" 11. Joseph = "God will add to me" 12 Benjamin = "son of His right hand"

1. Reuben 2. Simeon 3. Levi 4. Judah 5. Dan 6. Naphtali 7. Gad 8. Asher 9. Issachar 10. Zebulun 11. Joseph 12 Benjamin

Leah: 1 Reuben 2 Simeon 3 Levi 4 Judah 9 Issachar 10 Zebulun
Rachel 11 Joseph 12 Benjamin
Bilhah [Rachel's maid] 5 Dan 6 Naphtali
Zilpah [Leah's maid] 7 Gad 8 Asher
=======================
I like this person's commentary on Luke 16's covenantle parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus........Tho the Rich Man could also be symbolizing Levi and the 1st century High Priesthood?

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

The fact that the rich man has five brothers is a vital clue to his true symbolic identity.
Judah, the progenitor of the Jews, was the son of Jacob through Leah (Gen. 29:35). He had five full-blooded brothers: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, and Zebulun (Gen. 35:23).

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable. This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!
=====================================
But his article on the 2 Houses of Israel is also very informative

The Two Houses Of Israel - Here a little, there a little - Prophecy

There is a general error among most Christians and a lot of Jews regarding the identity of the children of Israel. Because of a general lack of historical understanding, most Christians believe that the Jews are ALL of the people chosen by God in the Old Testament.
Additionally, many Christians believe that they belong to an unrelated group known biblically as "Gentiles." In this article, we are going to show from the Scriptures that both of these conclusions are founded on incorrect assumptions.........

God told Rehoboam that the split was divinely ordained, and that he was not to fight the 10 tribes of Israel that had broken away from him. To his credit, Rehoboam heeded God's word and sent his troops home. The separation resulted in a northern kingdom in Samaria and a southern kingdom in Judea.
The northern kingdom was known by several names, including: Israel, the House of Israel, Samaria, Joseph, the House of Joseph, and Ephraim.
The southern kingdom was generally called Judah or the House of Judah.

From the very beginning of the split, the northern kingdom perverted and outright broke God's Laws. King Jeroboam immediately began to change the Law.
He removed the Levites from the priesthood, which caused most of them to return to the southern kingdom of Judah (I Kings 13:33; II Chr. 11:13-14). He also set up calf idols at Bethel and Dan, set up shrines on high places, and changed the time and place for observing the Feasts of God (I Kings 12:26-33). These sinful innovations plagued the House of Israel throughout their existence.

Several decades before the fall of the House of Israel, the prophet Hosea preached the message of God to the separated tribes of Israel. While he addressed both the House of Judah and the House of Israel in his prophecies, Hosea's primary message is directed at the House of Israel, or Ephraim:
======================

Copperhead · May 26, 2019

Dave L said:
Jesus said it would be like Noah's day, not like you assume it will be.

So like you assume it will be? I never stated what I assume it will be. I only made the comment that it must have some feature that no other period from then to now had so we could distinguish that end is upon us. I am pretty sure of what was going on in Noah's day that caused Yahweh to eliminate all land life on the planet. And since Yeshua said it would be like Noah's day, then that unique characteristic of Noah's day must be in view.

Copperhead · May 26, 2019

Dave L said:
The Church = Israel = all the promises made to Abraham yes in Jesus.

1000 years are not the kingdom, Satan attacks it when the 1000 years end.

But when did the 1000 years start so that we know when Satan was released to start his attacks?

Grip Docility · May 26, 2019

Copperhead said:
So like you assume it will be? I am pretty sure of what was going on in Noah's day that caused Yahweh to eliminate all land life on the planet. And since Yeshua said it would be like Noah's day, then that unique characteristic of Noah's day must be in view.

Might I ask if you believe the "Son's of God" verse indicates what you are suggesting? I am extremely neutral on this matter. But I ask for curiosities sake.

OldWiseGuy · May 26, 2019

Copperhead said:
So like you assume it will be? I never stated what I assume it will be. I only made the comment that it must have some feature that no other period from then to now had so we could distinguish that end is upon us. I am pretty sure of what was going on in Noah's day that caused Yahweh to eliminate all land life on the planet. And since Yeshua said it would be like Noah's day, then that unique characteristic of Noah's day must be in view.

We are in "Noah's day" now. It's only a matter of time.

LittleLambofJesus · May 26, 2019

Copperhead said: ↑
And what was it that was so unique about the Days of Noah that sets it apart from any other period of time in history? Evil? It could be argued that the Dark Ages were characterized by evil. Certainly the 20th century. There was something unique about the days of Noah that set it apart from any other period in history and only will be visible again during the later days. Something specific that cannot be attributed to any other period of time in history. Something that will remove all doubt that "as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be at the coming of the Son of Man".

Dave L said:
Jesus said it would be like Noah's day, not like you assume it will be.

Curiously, this event is absent in Mark 13 and Luke 21 of the 70ad Jerusalem/Temple discourse, but rather shown in Luke 17.......

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:
37 For even as the days of the Noah,
thus also shall be being the parousia of the Son of the Man
38 For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking and marrying an giving in marriage
until of which day Noah entered into the Ark.
39 And not they know until came the flood came and takes away<142> all.
Thus shall be being the parousia of the Son of the Man

Luke 17:
26 And according as it became in the days of Noah
thus it shall be also in the days of the Son of the Man.
27 They ate, they drank, they married, they gave out in marriage,
until which day Noah entered into the Ark and came the flood and destroys<622> all.
=============================================
Dan 9:26
“And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
Nah 1:8
But with an overflowing flood He will make an utter end of its place,
And darkness will pursue His enemies.
===================================
https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM

Matthew 24:6
“Yet ye shall be being about to be hearing battles and hearings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled<2360>, for is binding to becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>
Mark 13:7
“Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and hearings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled for is binding to be becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>
Luke 21:9
“Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and tumults<181>, no may be being frightened<4422>, for is binding these to be becoming,
but not immediately the End<5056>
=======================================
Flood could also symbolize an army:

Luke 19:43
That shall be arriving<2240> days upon thee, and thy Enemies shall be casting up a rampart<5482> to thee, and shall be encompassing<4033> thee, and pressing thee every which place.
Luke 21:
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near.

Copperhead · May 26, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
We are in "Noah's day" now. It's only a matter of time.

And what unique characteristic of Noah's day, a characteristic that sets it apart from any other period of history, is in place that one could prove we are in the days of Noah? It is one thing to make general assertions, but since Yeshua was so explicit that "as it was in the days of Noah", there has to be a unique characteristic that delineates those days from any other period of history.

Again, what is that one, unique characteristic that we can point to that proves we are in the days of Noah as you assert?

OldWiseGuy · May 26, 2019

Copperhead said:
And what unique characteristic of Noah's day, a characteristic that sets it apart from any other period of history, is in place that one could prove we are in the days of Noah? It is one thing to make general assertions, but since Yeshua was so explicit that "as it was in the days of Noah", there has to be a unique characteristic that delineates those days from any other period of history.

Again, what is that one, unique characteristic that we can point to that proves we are in the days of Noah as you assert?

Being blithely unaware of our miserable moral condition, and in fact reveling in it.

jgr · May 26, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
That doesn't abrogate the birthright promises made to Joseph.

So "all the promises" doesn't mean "all the promises".

Whose Bible are you reading from?

OldWiseGuy · May 26, 2019

jgr said:
So "all the promises" doesn't mean "all the promises".

Whose Bible are you reading from?

Everything will be Christ's after he returns.

jgr · May 26, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
The promise of salvation only, not the birthright promise. Salvation is of grace, the birthright is of the law of inheritance.

Scripture?

Galatians 3:29 does not include the word "only".

Copperhead · May 26, 2019

Grip Docility said:
Might I ask if you believe the "Son's of God" verse indicates what you are suggesting? I am extremely neutral on this matter. But I ask for curiosities sake.

That does play into it somewhat. The one thing that made Noah and his family the only ones worthy. And it wasn't because he was spiritually perfect, as we see later after the flood. Folks that get falling down drunk while butt naked are not usually those that we would call "pillars of the community" and "giants of the faith".

Did the event of 1948 Israel fulfill any Bible prophecy?

Did event of Israel 1948 fulfill any Bible prophecy?

No

Yes

I don't know

Other

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Wake me when it's soup.

Wake me when it's soup.

Well-Known Member

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Newbie

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Wake me when it's soup.

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Newbie

Wake me when it's soup.

Well-Known Member

Wake me when it's soup.

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Newbie

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