Majority of Americans say heartbeat abortion bans are not too restrictive

hedrick

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Medical emergencies are so rare statistically and is not the reason why so many women get abortions. It's because of convenience not rape or medical reasons.
Medical problems and rape are a small percent of the total, but exceptions for them need to be there.
 
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GodLovesCats

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Rape and health reasons is not only a vast minority of abortion cases; it is an extraordinarily low percentage of abortion cases. It’s an excuse that people like to use so we can take the marginal case and then say that the marginal case applies to all cases. It is faulty thinking people use at best.

Have you ever seen the word exceptions in abortion laws? I guarantee every single abortion law has the medical emergency exception. Others have more exceptions. Nobody has ever used rare cases to argue it should be legal for any women or girl to get an abortion.
 
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GodLovesCats

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I think scripture can clear that up. As we see in Luke 1:41 the Bible says the word "baby" not a fetus or a subhuman.

Luke 1:41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.

A fetus is not a subhuman. I hate it when people act like the word means something it doesn't. Fetus is a life stage, just like infant and toddler.
 
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hedrick

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I think scripture can clear that up. As we see in Luke 1:41 the Bible says the word "baby" not a fetus or a subhuman.

Luke 1:41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
She was in the 6th month. The most common view in the US is that abortion is OK in the first trimester but not in the third. So this example isn't all that helpful.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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The curse being a miscarry, sounds like an induced abortion to me.
Strange understanding and interpretation of the Bible. Need we go to the discussion of the Old Covenant being replaced with the new...the law of love and not taking revenge into one's own hands but to rather leave room for the Lord? How does this prove your case for abortion? (and I am aware of these passages). King David was also punished for his sin of adultery with Bathsheba by the taking of their unborn child.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Strange understanding and interpretation of the Bible. Need we go to the discussion of the Old Covenant being replaced with the new...the law of love and not taking revenge into one's own hands but to rather leave room for the Lord? How does this prove your case for abortion? (and I am aware of these passages). King David was also punished for his sin of adultery with Bathsheba by the taking of their unborn child.
Should have added the difference is we are talking about our human sinful actions and the Lord's holy asts of divine retribution.
 
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mark kennedy

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Strange understanding and interpretation of the Bible. Need we go to the discussion of the Old Covenant being replaced with the new...the law of love and not taking revenge into one's own hands but to rather leave room for the Lord? How does this prove your case for abortion? (and I am aware of these passages). King David was also punished for his sin of adultery with Bathsheba by the taking of their unborn child.
That was in response to the statement that no where in Scripture does it approve of abortion, that passage indicates under the Law one was visited as a curse. I don't have a case for abortion based on the Bible, I just have in incidence of a divinely induced one.
 
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Yekcidmij

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Secular laws can't be determined by God's laws, as I have explained many times. If God tells you to drink wine before age 21, are you going to do it? OF COURSE NOT, because it is against the law.

Should Christians not have opposed the 3/5ths clause, Plessy vs Ferguson, or the Fugitive Slave Act? Just curious how your principle can be consistently applied...
 
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GodLovesCats

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Should Christians not have opposed the 3/5ths clause, Plessy vs Ferguson, or the Fugitive Slave Act? Just curious how your principle can be consistently applied...

What does any of that have to do with America's separation between church and state?
 
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throughfiierytrial

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That was in response to the statement that no where in Scripture does it approve of abortion, that passage indicates under the Law one was visited as a curse. I don't have a case for abortion based on the Bible, I just have in incidence of a divinely induced one.
I am truly sorry to be one to inform you that you must be more discerning in your reading and understanding of Scripture and especially before you write some conclusion for practically the entire world to read...all of which you have the potential to lead astray, but it is true.
I referred to the Laws of Justice regarding the death of the unborn and the order, by God, that in such cases the instigator or perpetrator should be put to death. These OT Laws, as you should well know, were set in place to govern mankind, specifically, the Jewish nation of Israel. Within this same set of Laws is the one you cite and the one I cited involving King David is within the Prophets and at that time the people were governed by the OT Law. God is much higher than us and judges as He finds most righteous for He is a righteous Judge.
I would expect these types of arguments and statements to come from some level of unbeliever, but not a Christian. They are a twisting of the facts of Scripture...finely so...in order to further your own pet belief or theory. Surely a straight forward reading of the Bible would not call for these pronouncements.
I did not indicate that anything other than mankind was the body governed; certainly not God.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Beings have a set of morals written on their hearts by God...often these morals are tarnished by the world and the devil. Point is those tasked with the duty of writing and passing American Law go into the process with this personal framework bias...they cannot get around it. The separation of Church and State argument is somewhat tenuous from the outset then. We want Supreme Court Justices to be apolitical...that would be impossible...we all have some preconceived ideas of what is right and wrong and how permissive we should be before we lose a working and moral/fair nation.
Christians have Scripture to help them stumble through a dark, dark world in a straight path accompanied by the Holy Spirit. One hopes that men of integrity will be seated as Supreme Court Justices who will be truly capable of acting via the governance of the Constitution in a dark world. The Framers were particularly thoughtful men and were aware of the dangers to guard the nation against...they saw danger firsthand.
 
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mark kennedy

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I am truly sorry to be one to inform you that you must be more discerning in your reading and understanding of Scripture and especially before you write some conclusion for practically the entire world to read...all of which you have the potential to lead astray, but it is true.
I referred to the Laws of Justice regarding the death of the unborn and the order, by God, that in such cases the instigator or perpetrator should be put to death. These OT Laws, as you should well know, were set in place to govern mankind, specifically, the Jewish nation of Israel. Within this same set of Laws is the one you cite and the one I cited involving King David is within the Prophets and at that time the people were governed by the OT Law. God is much higher than us and judges as He finds most righteous for He is a righteous Judge.
I would expect these types of arguments and statements to come from some level of unbeliever, but not a Christian. They are a twisting of the facts of Scripture...finely so...in order to further your own pet belief or theory. Surely a straight forward reading of the Bible would not call for these pronouncements.
I did not indicate that anything other than mankind was the body governed; certainly not God.
I simply raised the point that a divinely induced miscarriage is actually an abortion. The concept was not unknown in the ancient world. In the first century there was a practice amoung the Romans of taking an infant girl to a field and leaving her to die. The chuech condemned the practice as murder. In China at one time female children were considered worthless and drowned in buckets at birth. Ofcourse missionaries aware of the practice condemned it as murder. There was a time when babies could be drowned at birth or starved to death on gurrnies by court order.

Spare me the moralizing because I've always been prolife and always will be. I get pretty annoyed when I'm told I have to vote Republican or I'm pro death. I do know the Scriptues as a matter of fact and know how to relate things like this.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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I simply raised the point that a divinely induced miscarriage is actually an abortion. The concept was not unknown in the ancient world. In the first century there was a practice amoung the Romans of taking an infant girl to a field and leaving her to die. The chuech condemned the practice as murder. In China at one time female children were considered worthless and drowned in buckets at birth. Ofcourse missionaries aware of the practice condemned it as murder. There was a time when babies could be drowned at birth or starved to death on gurrnies by court order.

Spare me the moralizing because I've always been prolife and always will be. I get pretty annoyed when I'm told I have to vote Republican or I'm pro death. I do know the Scriptues as a matter of fact and know how to relate things like this.
Practice those Scriptures you know then...do not falsely accuse me of posting what I did not! Also, spare me your history lessens...I know those and more...and "wirthless" (your spelling) is correctly spelled worthless! I never told you to vote Republican..you must have your posters confused! Also, seems you want to hang on to your own desires (being a Dem with their principles) over and above attempting with all your heart and soul and mind to follow God's precepts.
 
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Logic Over Emotionalism

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Medical problems and rape are a small percent of the total, but exceptions for them need to be there.

I am not against exceptions, as that was not my point. My point is we can't use a marginal case to put a blanket on abortion bans. As rape and health reasons are extremely rare.
 
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Logic Over Emotionalism

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Have you ever seen the word exceptions in abortion laws? I guarantee every single abortion law has the medical emergency exception. Others have more exceptions. Nobody has ever used rare cases to argue it should be legal for any women or girl to get an abortion.

Once again I am not against exceptions for certain cases. But my point is we can't put s blanket on abortion bans based on marginal cases.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Once again I am not against exceptions for certain cases. But my point is we can't put s blanket on abortion bans based on marginal cases.
To your point of exceptions...remember that each life is precious to God.
 
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A fetus is not a subhuman. I hate it when people act like the word means something it doesn't. Fetus is a life stage, just like infant and toddler.

When we strip the baby of the right to life then we are saying he or she is a subhuman not worth of protecting. The Bible verse used the word baby not a fetus as to give the baby the same dignity of a baby outside of the womb.
 
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She was in the 6th month. The most common view in the US is that abortion is OK in the first trimester but not in the third. So this example isn't all that helpful.

Yet pro-choice politicians push for laws to make late term abortion acceptable in our country.

Democrats Overplay Their Hand on Abortion

Beto O'Rourke on Third-Trimester Abortions: ‘That Should Be A Decision That the Woman Makes’ | National Review

Bernie Sanders Backs Unrestricted Abortion Until Birth | National Review
 
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