Why did Adam and Eve sin if there was no sin?

St_Worm2

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I don't see any reference to a set of commandments or a set of laws until Moses. The Scripture says that death reigned between Adam and Moses, but the actual written law for the children of Israel did not come into being until Mt Sinai when Moses received the Ten Commandments.
Thanks Oscarr, I agree, of course.

That said, though they had no "written" commandments, there is no question that our progenitors had a single, direct commandment that was given to them from the mouth of God Himself, a commandment that they needed to obey. They even knew what the consequences would be if they failed to obey it.

Romans 5
12 Through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—
13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

Unlike the entirety of their progeny (until Moses), our first parents' sin was imputed/counted against them, because they knowingly sinned/knowingly disobeyed God's direct commandment to them.

--David
 
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dqhall

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I have a theory on the age-old question. If Adam and Eve were supposed to live in paradise for eternity, and there was no sin, why did they sin? Most people reply bluntly with "free will". But if that were the case, wouldn't the same argument be made when we get to heaven we will have free will to sin? Of course not... So this is what I think.

There were two trees. The tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The tree of life represents Christ. Anyone who eats from the tree of life (or abides in Christ) will have eternal life and there will be no sin, no desire to sin (no free will to do it) and eternal paradise. So why did Adam and Eve disobey God? Simple, because they didn't eat from the tree of life. Scripture never says they ever took a bite from the tree of life.

If they have eaten from the tree of life, they wouldn't even have the desire or free will to sin or disobey God. It would be like us having eternal life in heaven with no thought or desire of sin because we are in Christ (Christ representing the tree of life). But because they did not eat from the tree of life, but ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, the earth became cursed.

What I think this foreshadows? Well before they even made a decision, it was up to them what their fate wanted to be as God told them. I think this was representing the works of the law before Christ. By eating from the tree of life, they would be in Christ and no responsibility would be on them. But before they ate from the tree of life representing Christ, they had a responsibility to choose and obey God. Like the works of the law, if it isn't for Christ, and before we come to Christ, our works and righteousness fall on us and we have that responsibility. But when we abide in Christ and eat from the tree of life, we no longer look to ourselves to do something and can rest in him.

So God gave Adam and Eve free will to choose to have eternal life from the tree of life (Christ) or die by eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, where their eyes would be opened to the law of what is good and evil, and they would die because no man can uphold the law perfectly. Which is why the old covenant law came in place, and why the law is described as a curse in the bible and brings death, just like the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But Christ brings eternal life, just like the tree of life. Jesus died on a tree (on a cross made from wood of a tree) which is also a foreshadowing. When we abide in Christ we may have eternal life and live as if Adam and Eve ate from the the tree of life with no sin. Our spirit selves are already sinless, we are just waiting for our glorified bodies now.

Anyways, of course we can just answer this question with "because God wanted it that way". But thinking of it in this way can help make sense of new covenant scripture as well. God is amazing the way he uses scripture and gives us these kinds of understandings.
Adam and Eve did not have eternal life in the garden of paradise. They ate fruit from the wrong tree and later died.

A Singapore based study published in 2017 reported elderly people who ate edible mushrooms had better cognitive ability than elderly patients who did not eat mushrooms.

Not all of God's mushrooms are beneficial. In 2014 a South African family ate poisonous mushrooms. The father, mother and two children died.
 
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zelosravioli

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The original post seems to imply that Adam and Eve had 'not yet eaten' from the tree of life. Scripture does not 'say' if they did or not - but it seems 'likely' they had been eating. After all: they were alive, they had life, and they had hunger.

That being so: it seems the tree of life only gave 'life' if they 'continued' to eat from it. And, this does not seem to be the same 'eternal life' we can have in Christ, which is complete only after God gives believers a new immortal body.

What the new immortal existence / body, or mind will be like, is like trying to describe what the new Earth will be like, pure speculation.

'How' God will allow humans freewill and immortality remains for us unknown, but there is no justification for saying we 'wont' have freewill.
God has freewill also, so it does not seem that having freewill is a sin.

Nothing wrong with 'trying' to understand it (as I too like studying different cognitive sciences, i.e neuroscience, especially artificial intelligence! yikes), yet 'scripture' doesn't say much more about the new immortal bodies than what we have in 1Cor 15.
 
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fhansen

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This doesn't solve anything, really. It just replaces a positive action with a negative. Instead of choosing to take the forbidden fruit, they choose not to take the necessary one. Then we're back to the original problem. You would have to ask why two perfect people would choose such a thing. It's the same problem.

The fact is that it's hard to reason why a perfect thing would become imperfect of its own volition. If someone chooses to be imperfect, then the choice demonstrates imperfection already. I run into this sort of logical problem whenever dealing with absolutes. I could write a book on the subject.



That's an argument from silence. Scripture never says a lot of things about Adam and Eve, and what it does say is too short to suggest that such an omission implies anything.
Teachings I’ve read, some going back centuries, include the fact that Adam & Eve were perfect as to their created natures, perfectly man IOW, just as each part of creation has its own perfection proper to it. But, as a rational being with the gift of free will, man's ultimate perfection isn't attained unless and until he's reached moral perfection-and this is a contingency only because it's a matter of the will-his will. Man was given the knowledge and grace to will rightly and yet he's nonetheless "left in the hands of his own counsel". The law or commandments are written in his heart, aka the "natural law", but he possesses the unique (among creation) and potentially destructive capacity to ignore or override that law. Man is just only to the extent that he wills justly, and acts accordingly-and he cannot do this in any kind of consistent and absolute manner unless he's spiritually united with God, and this is exactly the relationship Adam shattered, thinking he could do better going it on his own so to speak. But…"Apart from Me you can do nothing", John 15:5. That's the New Covenant in a nutshell. The choice to be with or apart from Him is the crux of the matter-and our being with Him begins with faith, just as Adam's act was essentially one of unbelief for one thing.

At any rate God is producing something with this whole endeavor, not merely creating a bunch of worthless wretches and then, at some later date, throwing some in heaven and the rest in hell. He already loves and values man beyond anything we can imagine, and wants more from-but most importantly for-us than we can imagine.

Man has a limitation; he’s not God. God’s perfection is absolute while man’s is relative. And this means that man is fallible. Regardless of how close to perfection God makes men or angels, God cannot create another God. And ironically this very “fault” is the same ingredient that makes man’s fall possible, once free will is added into the mix. IOW, until man learns for himself that he’s not God, that something much “bigger” and wiser exists above himself, Something he desperately needs, then man is lost. This is the wisdom that we’re here to gain. Here are some teachings I’m familiar with and have come to appreciate:

1731 Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will, to act or not to act, to do this or that, and so to perform deliberate actions on one's own responsibility. By free will one shapes one's own life. Human freedom is a force for growth and maturity in truth and goodness; it attains its perfection when directed toward God, our beatitude.

1732 As long as freedom has not bound itself definitively to its ultimate good which is God, there is the possibility of choosing between good and evil, and thus of growing in perfection or of failing and sinning.


Until we truly love God with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength, probably not fully attainable until the next life, things are not in order, justice does not yet reign in man’s heart.
 
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zelosravioli

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.. one odd thing that came to mind was: that like here, God knows all our thoughts - yet in the new world God is also with us 'and' knows our thoughts...

Hopefully, maybe, the presence of God fulfills us, and makes disobeying God distasteful and unthinkable, and so we lose the willingness/will to sin (?).
 
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StevenBelievin

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The short answer is that Adam and Eve were under a covenant of law. The one law was not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. To disobey and eat of that tree is a sin or transgression of that law. Therefore when they transgressed that law and sinned, sin entered the world through Adam. They were in a state of sinlessness until they transgressed the law.
 
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DM25

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The short answer is that Adam and Eve were under a covenant of law. The one law was not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. To disobey and eat of that tree is a sin or transgression of that law. Therefore when they transgressed that law and sinned, sin entered the world through Adam. They were in a state of sinlessness until they transgressed the law.
But the law can only come through sin and there was no sin. In fact the law came from the knowledge of good and evil (knowing right from wrong is the law). So why was disobedience even in the question if there was no sin or law?
 
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mark kennedy

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I have a theory on the age-old question. If Adam and Eve were supposed to live in paradise for eternity, and there was no sin, why did they sin? Most people reply bluntly with "free will". But if that were the case, wouldn't the same argument be made when we get to heaven we will have free will to sin? Of course not... So this is what I think.

There were two trees. The tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The tree of life represents Christ. Anyone who eats from the tree of life (or abides in Christ) will have eternal life and there will be no sin, no desire to sin (no free will to do it) and eternal paradise. So why did Adam and Eve disobey God? Simple, because they didn't eat from the tree of life. Scripture never says they ever took a bite from the tree of life.

If they have eaten from the tree of life, they wouldn't even have the desire or free will to sin or disobey God. It would be like us having eternal life in heaven with no thought or desire of sin because we are in Christ (Christ representing the tree of life). But because they did not eat from the tree of life, but ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, the earth became cursed.

What I think this foreshadows? Well before they even made a decision, it was up to them what their fate wanted to be as God told them. I think this was representing the works of the law before Christ. By eating from the tree of life, they would be in Christ and no responsibility would be on them. But before they ate from the tree of life representing Christ, they had a responsibility to choose and obey God. Like the works of the law, if it isn't for Christ, and before we come to Christ, our works and righteousness fall on us and we have that responsibility. But when we abide in Christ and eat from the tree of life, we no longer look to ourselves to do something and can rest in him.

So God gave Adam and Eve free will to choose to have eternal life from the tree of life (Christ) or die by eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, where their eyes would be opened to the law of what is good and evil, and they would die because no man can uphold the law perfectly. Which is why the old covenant law came in place, and why the law is described as a curse in the bible and brings death, just like the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But Christ brings eternal life, just like the tree of life. Jesus died on a tree (on a cross made from wood of a tree) which is also a foreshadowing. When we abide in Christ we may have eternal life and live as if Adam and Eve ate from the the tree of life with no sin. Our spirit selves are already sinless, we are just waiting for our glorified bodies now.

Anyways, of course we can just answer this question with "because God wanted it that way". But thinking of it in this way can help make sense of new covenant scripture as well. God is amazing the way he uses scripture and gives us these kinds of understandings.
Innocence is not righteousness, Abraham believed God and it was credited to him for righteousness. What was missing was confidence in the clear Word of God. That word for knowledge, ad in the knowledge of good and evil is used in reference to skills. It doesn't appear again untill Ohalib abd Bezeel are given skills and wisdom to vuild the Tabernacle. The pivitol concept here is a specific knowledge. Now that angels were not created sinners, but Satan and his angels fell into sin for reasons unique to them.
 
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fhansen

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But the law can only come through sin and there was no sin. In fact the law came from the knowledge of good and evil (knowing right from wrong is the law). So why was disobedience even in the question if there was no sin or law?
The law is simply God's command. He spoke it, they received it. Now the question was whether or not they would obey it. That same law would've been written on their hearts as well, correlating with and affirming God's spoken word, meaning their own consciences had to be overidden in order to disobey. They had seriously compromised themselves.
 
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StevenBelievin

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But the law can only come through sin and there was no sin. In fact the law came from the knowledge of good and evil (knowing right from wrong is the law). So why was disobedience even in the question if there was no sin or law?

You're confused. If there is no law then there is no sin. Sin or the knowledge of sin comes through the law not the other way around. They were under law because God commanded them not to eat of the tree. They transgressed God's commandment by doing what He said not to do. That was the original sin. Do you have a scripture that says law comes through sin?
 
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DM25

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The law is simply God's command. He spoke it, they received it. Now the question was whether or not they would obey it. That same law would've been written on their hearts as well, correlating with and affirming God's spoken word, meaning their own consciences had to be overidden in order to disobey. They had seriously compromised themselves.
Yeah but the law came after they ate from the tree of knowledge, because there was no sin before that, therefore no law to break or follow. Before they ate from the tree they were completely free to do what they want because there was no sin. However they were in a weird neutral state, because they did sin, which goes back to the original question.
 
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DM25

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You're confused. If there is no law then there is no sin. Sin or the knowledge of sin comes through the law not the other way around. They were under law because God commanded them not to eat of the tree. They transgressed God's commandment by doing what He said not to do. That was the original sin. Do you have a scripture that says law comes through sin?
Please stop insulting me. The definition of the law is rules that are meant to be followed and if broken there are penalties. If there is no knowledge of what is good and what is evil, there is no law. No knowledge of sin = no law. When they ate from the tree, that's when the law came in place. Why do you think they "knew" they were naked? Because they got that knowledge of the law, that it's not right to be naked and so they felt uncomfortable... Meaning the law came after the original sin, not before it. You are the one who is "confused".

You seem to not understand when the law of Moses was written. You also seem to forget there was no sin before they ate of the tree, therefore no law. Like there will be no law or no sin in heaven. The law is a curse, which is why Jesus came to free people from the old covenant law.
 
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DM25

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Knowledge of good and evil is literal, knowing good and evil aka the law. So how in the world did they know to disobey God when that is considered evil? That's basically my original question. If there was no sin, why did they sin? If there was no law, how did they break it? Confusing question to answer.
 
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StevenBelievin

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Please stop insulting me. The definition of the law is rules that are meant to be followed and if broken there are penalties. If there is no knowledge of what is good and what is evil, there is no law. No knowledge of sin = no law. When they ate from the tree, that's when the law came in place. Why do you think they "knew" they were naked? Because they got that knowledge of the law, that it's not right to be naked and so they felt uncomfortable... Meaning the law came after the original sin, not before it. You are the one who is "confused".

You seem to not understand when the law of Moses was written. You also seem to forget there was no sin before they ate of the tree, therefore no law. Like there will be no law or no sin in heaven. The law is a curse, which is why Jesus came to free people from the old covenant law.

I did not mean to be insulting. I have been confused more times than I can count. The knowledge of good and evil is not needed in order for there to be sin (transgression) or law. For law to be present all that is needed is a commandment to be broken or transgressed. God commanded them not to. That is enough. The knowledge that God said not to was enough to make them accountable if they didn't obey. They transgressed His commandment (sinned).

I know when the Mosaic covenant / law came into effect. I never said Adam / Eve were under the Mosaic law. Anyway, I'm not going to argue about it anymore. I answered your question and even clarified it further.
 
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DM25

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I did not mean to be insulting. I have been confused more times than I can count. The knowledge of good and evil is not needed in order for there to be sin (transgression) or law. For law to be present all that is needed is a commandment to be broken or transgressed. God commanded them not to. That is enough. The knowledge that God said not to was enough to make them accountable if they didn't obey. They transgressed His commandment (sinned).

I know when the Mosaic covenant / law came into effect. I never said Adam / Eve were under the Mosaic law. Anyway, I'm not going to argue about it anymore. I answered your question and even clarified it further.
Then what do you think the knowledge of good and evil is then?
 
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fhansen

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Yeah but the law came after they ate from the tree of knowledge, because there was no sin before that, therefore no law to break or follow. Before they ate from the tree they were completely free to do what they want because there was no sin. However they were in a weird neutral state, because they did sin, which goes back to the original question.
I'm not sure I understand. They did break a law, the most primary and basic one in fact, the law that says in essence, 'I am your God, heed and obey Me'. Once that law had been broken, once Adam and Eve became the masters of their own morality IOW, all other sins would begin to flourish. It's not that they had no conscience before that act; they could discern right from wrong, they simply hadn't yet begun to determine right and wrong for themselves. Augustine would put the plight of man afterwards like this, speaking of the giving of the Law of Moses:
"God wrote on tablets of stone that which man failed to read in his heart".

Sin is simply moral evil, opposition to God's will. Having the law makes us more culpable for the acts but they're already sin before we know that they're sin. And Romans 2 addresses this IMO.
 
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StevenBelievin

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Then what do you think the knowledge of good and evil is then?

The knowledge of good and evil. Something is not a law unless there is a commandment by God regarding the subject matter. The law of Moses for example. Or God's command to Adam and Eve not to eat the tree.

By the way, the answer I gave you is also in all the Theology books that I have read. Adam and Eve were under a dispensation of Law. So was Moses after the commandment was given.
 
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I'm not sure I understand. They did break a law, the most primary and basic one in fact, the law that says in essence, 'I am your God, heed and obey Me'. Once that law had been broken, once Adam and Eve became the masters of their own morality IOW, all other sins would begin to flourish. It's not that they had no conscience before that act; they could discern right from wrong, they simply hadn't yet begun to determine right and wrong
for themselves. Augustine would put the plight of man afterwards like this, speaking of the giving of the Law of Moses:
"God wrote on tablets of stone that which man failed to read in his heart".

Sin is simply moral evil, opposition to God's will. Having the law makes us more culpable for the acts but they're already sin before we know that they're sin. And Romans 2 addresses this IMO.

I agree. I had not thought of Adam under law until a had read a book on the different covenants. Adamic, Noahic, Abrahamic, Mosaic, Davidic, New Covenant. It would seem that God dealt with humanity differently during different dispensational periods.
 
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