Why Abortion Should Be Allowed in the Early Stages

Here is the first one Tux: HELLP Syndrome. Source: American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology

What is HELLP syndrome?
HELLP stands for hemolysis, elevated liver enzymes, and low platelet count. In this condition, red blood cells are damaged or destroyed, blood clotting is impaired, and the liver can bleed internally, causing chest or abdominal pain. HELLP syndrome is a medical emergency. Women can die from HELLP syndrome or have lifelong health problems as a result.

Preeclampsia and High Blood Pressure During Pregnancy - ACOG

ChristianForCats said:

Oh yes, sometimes it is medcally necessasry. Science and medicine support this. Only pro-lifers say there is no medical reason for it. So what if there are very few medically necessary abortions? That doesn't give anyone the right to deny it ever happens.

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https://www.lifenews.com/2019/03/05...r-medically-necessary-to-save-a-mothers-life/
30,000 Doctors Say: “Abortion is Never Medically Necessary to Save a Mother’s Life”

JerseyChristianSuperstar said:

Until the fetus can survive on its own, it is nothing more than an organ of the woman.

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That is NOT the scientific understanding. An organ of the woman would have the DNA of the woman, not the DNA of the fetus.

Would you really say that a 3 week old embryo is its own body? No, it is an extension of hers?

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Not biologically.

Anyway, it's still a sin because God makes us in the womb and we should not flaunt our noses at Him.

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Is sin sometimes approved by God, or never approved by God?

ChristianForCats said:

An embryo is a separate human being with its own DNA. The "extension of hers" part is the placenta that attaches the baby to her endometrium.

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And only the outer membrane of the placenta. The inner membrane is fetal. The placenta is a shared organ, part maternal, part fetal.

JerseyChristianSuperstar said:

Until the fetus can survive on its own, it is nothing more than an organ of the woman.

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An organ doesn't have the capacity to become an organism (which you would surely agree that a human being is). A child, made in the image and likeness of the Lord, is no mere organ, and we are more than the collection of our cells anyways.

Jersey, Genessis 2:7 is about a man being made from the dust of the Earth. Adam was never in a uterus, never a zygote, embryo, or fetus. He was just a man. Look at Jeremish 1:5 and tell me if it means we had souls at conception.

ChristianForCats said:

Here is the first one Tux: HELLP Syndrome. Source: American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology

What is HELLP syndrome?
HELLP stands for hemolysis, elevated liver enzymes, and low platelet count. In this condition, red blood cells are damaged or destroyed, blood clotting is impaired, and the liver can bleed internally, causing chest or abdominal pain. HELLP syndrome is a medical emergency. Women can die from HELLP syndrome or have lifelong health problems as a result.

Preeclampsia and High Blood Pressure During Pregnancy - ACOG

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Abortion is never medically necessary

From the link:

Abortion advocates point to pregnancy complications like preeclampsia as examples where an abortion is “medically necessary” to save the mother’s life.

But there is another way. There is always another way, because emergency response to a situation like acute preeclampsia actually requires early delivery of the baby. It is necessary in that situation to separate the mother and the baby. But it is not the same as unnecessarily and intentionally killing the baby in cases where the mother’s life is threatened by continuing the pregnancy. Killing the baby offers no medical advantage to the mother.

The reality is that even if the baby cannot live after we separate mother and baby, there is a undeniable difference between a doctor trying to save the baby after that separation against long odds, and an abortionist deliberately and intentionally killing the baby within the womb.

ChristianForCats said:

What are you calling hard cases? I never used that phrase.

Let me get back to you on this.

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Hard cases make for bad law.

David, that assumes the baby is viable at the time preeclaimpsia occurs.

Matthew 1:20 shows God considers a child there at conception. This is shown again when the Baptist recognizes Christ in the womb.

The Adam argument is thin. That was the first man. Not in utero.

ChristianForCats said:

David, that assumes the baby is viable at the time preeclaimpsia occurs.

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Actually no. A child does not have to be viable to be treated as a patient. Even if the cause is hopeless. A direct abortion and a death while trying against all odds are different.

ChristianForCats said:

David, that assumes the baby is viable at the time preeclaimpsia occurs.

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Viable by what standards? You're aware that medicine is an ever-changing field, and that massive advances have been made in just the past few decades alone, right? Someone not considered "viable" a decade ago is viable today. Someone not considered "viable" today is "viable" two decades from now.

But "viability" is a lazy (and dehumanizing) argument to begin with. "I grant you no rights until I deem you fit to survive".

Anyways, I suppose that I'm left scratching my head at this. Why would a pregnant woman whose life is in danger require that her unborn child be dissected (or chemically burned) in the womb in order to survive? In what world does this make sense? We're living in reality, not sci-fi or fantasy. Human sacrifice saves no lives.

@JerseyChristianSuperstar, where are you spreading your perspective? Are you involved in any kind of ministry in which you counsel vulnerable women facing crisis pregnancy?

ChristianForCats said:

Here is the first one Tux: HELLP Syndrome. Source: American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology

What is HELLP syndrome?
HELLP stands for hemolysis, elevated liver enzymes, and low platelet count. In this condition, red blood cells are damaged or destroyed, blood clotting is impaired, and the liver can bleed internally, causing chest or abdominal pain. HELLP syndrome is a medical emergency. Women can die from HELLP syndrome or have lifelong health problems as a result.

Preeclampsia and High Blood Pressure During Pregnancy - ACOG

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And the best treatment for HELLP Syndrome is delivery of the baby. The syndrome, if it shows up, is in the third trimester. If symptoms are severe and become unmanageable, one delivers the baby and the woman recovers within days. This is not something where abortion is the answer. The answer, as always, is to treat both woman and child. In this case to deliver a baby alive (and treat it if premature), which reverses the syndrome in the mother.

JerseyChristianSuperstar said:

Genesis 2:7, which has already been quoted, clearly shows that a person is not ensouled at his very earliest stage, but that the soul is created later by God and put in the person.

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This passage has been addressed numerous times. Repeating your incorrect understanding isn’t going to make it true.

First off, Adam, as you know, is kind of a unique example. Second off, the most analogous you can get would be that Adam was a dead body, and then when God made him alive he had a soul. So to try and make that analogous to how the rest of us are formed, you would have to say we have souls at fertilization because that is when we become alive.

JerseyChristianSuperstar said:

"Biologically" we know no such thing—only that the organism formed at conception is a potential life, not an actual one.

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Ok, I’m not going to waste anyone’s time again by posting the dozens of available biological references which plainly demonstrate you’re utterly ignorant of human biology.

Instead, can you actually share your sources for this information? I assume you’re not formulating your important belief based upon your own uneducated guesses, right?

So what evidence can you provide that demonstrates that there is no actual life at conception? Please spare us your reasoning and just provide credible references that support your beliefs.

TuxAme said:

Viable by what standards? You're aware that medicine is an ever-changing field, and that massive advances have been made in just the past few decades alone, right? Someone not considered "viable" a decade ago is viable today. Someone not considered "viable" today is "viable" two decades from now.

But "viability" is a lazy (and dehumanizing) argument to begin with. "I grant you no rights until I deem you fit to survive".

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By medical standards, of course. Every specialty has a nationwide union that creates standards for what a doctor should do in each situation, etc. and makes up a specific list of things to look for in a patient.