Do creationists critically examine their own ideas (re: creationism)?

Jimmy D said:

Asking what?

Post 39 seems to be a cryptic implication that creationism is devoid of evidence.

Post 55 appears to imply that creationists lack ideas.

I would disagree with the latter, even you have ideas about creationism, like your raisin bread thing, or the polluted fish pond.

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Then yes.

I critically examine my ideas and challenges.

d taylor said:

If i was to find out that the moon is not a light.

Then i would know the Bible is a lie, and just a product of men and there is no God.

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No, not necessarily. I am convinced that the Bible was written by men using language and images that could be understood in a pre-scientific society. That doesn't mean that it is a lie or that there is no God.

d taylor said:

If i was to find out that the moon is not a light.

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Well, sorry, it’s not. It has shadows on it, which is a pretty obvious tell.

Danielwright2311 said:

I do not know who told you what your telling me, but in Gods family, we worship out of love and faith, not truth.

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Daniel,

That's not what Jesus said:


Oz

d taylor said:

If i was to find out that the moon is not a light.

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How about if we update the archaic verbiage to the 21st century. Are you saying that you think the moon is self-illuminating?

pitabread said:

Thank you for posting this.

As a follow up, have you ever examined any of these individual arguments critically?

For example, you claim that the Bible says that God created the stars and you confirm that by seeing that the stars exist. Do you believe this is a logical argument?

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(you claim that the Bible says that God created the stars)
That is not actually an accurate statement.

Actually the Bible does say that God created the stars
Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also.
I just believe the Bible testimony.

But back to your question, do i believe, that believing, that the Bible saying God created the stars is a logical argument
Well actually i am not making an argument

(because i am not, in my post trying to bring anyone to believe my view of the Bible i am just stating my view),
my view may be opposite to yours. But i am expressing my view what i have personally observe. And some of that is, I see that a sun exist, a moon exist, stars exist, etc..
and by past experience i can not name anything in existence that does not exist without being brought forth, created by someone. So to me it is logical to believe that these lights i see in the sky exist (i know that because i see them) so seeing that they do exist, logically for me means they were created, because they would be the only exception of something that exist with out being created.

Works of art exist because they were created by a person. Works of music exist because they were created by a person. Architecture is in existence, because people have designed and built these structures. etc....

My view may not pass the scientifically logical criteria, but science has not produced evidence for me, that supplants evidence from the Bible.

A great many people have no problem saying that our universe which is real and tangible and measureable must have been created. On the other hand we have a God which people believe to be real that is completely intangible and unmeasureable but is uncreated. There is no logic in that whatsoever. If God is uncreated then there is no reason whatsoever that the universe too is uncreated. It is even possible to suggest that the universe is uncreated but somehow created God.

d taylor said:

(you claim that the Bible says that God created the stars)
That is not actually an accurate statement.

Actually the Bible does say that God created the stars
Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also.
I just believe the Bible testimony.

But back to your question, do i believe, that believing, that the Bible saying God created the stars is a logical argument
Well actually i am not making an argument

(because i am not, in my post trying to bring anyone to believe my view of the Bible i am just stating my view),
my view may be opposite to yours. But i am expressing my view what i have personally observe. And some of that is, I see that a sun exist, a moon exist, stars exist, etc..
and by past experience i can not name anything in existence that does not exist without being brought forth, created by someone.

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Not true. You believe God exists, and nobody brought him forth.

pitabread said:

Per the title.

And if the answer is yes, how do creationists critically examine their own ideas?

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Why should they examine their own creationist ideas?

Science makes no attempt to explain why the Big Bang occurred, science even admits that the singularity is beyond scientific investigation.

Both ideas, both creation and the Big Bang cannot be fully explained, they both exist beyond the reach of humanity.

So why should a creationist answer any question on the origin of all things when science cannot either.

We have stars that are older than the universe.

Science has no real problem with these deep time stellar observations, otherwise the Big Bang would have been falsified and discarded.

Science is the best of the disciplines that man employs to answer the big questions about existence. Yet science is unable to penetrate the darkness that enshrouds deep time.

lasthero said:

Not true. You believe God exists, and nobody brought him forth.

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I was speaking of objects i see, like the sun, moon, stars, cars, trees, water, lawn mowers, fishing boats, etc...

d taylor said:

I was speaking of objects i see, like the sun, moon, stars, cars, trees, water, lawn mowers, fishing boats, etc...

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Oh. Well, that’s not what you said, so you’ll have to forgive my confusion.

So, things that you haven’t seen can come out of nothing, then?

klutedavid said:

Why should they examine their own creationist ideas?

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Because the honest thing, the action that displays integrity, the approach that moves us closer to truth is to examine, carefully, frankly, in depth, our beliefs.

klutedavid said:

Science makes no attempt to explain why the Big Bang occurred, science even admits that the singularity is beyond scientific investigation.

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And yet science has explored possible explanations for the Big Bang.

klutedavid said:

So why should a creationist answer any question on the origin of all things when science cannot either.

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Well, it would give them one up over the scientists! More seriously, scientists give us the details of what happened from the first tiny fraction of a second. From creationists we get only hand waving generalities.

klutedavid said:

We have stars that are older than the universe.

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No we don't.

klutedavid said:

Science has no real problem with these deep time stellar observations, otherwise the Big Bang would have been falsified and discarded.

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Correct. There is no real problem.

klutedavid said:

Science is the best of the disciplines that man employs to answer the big questions about existence. Yet science is unable to penetrate the darkness that enshrouds deep time

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How foolish. If we already had all the answers we would not still be asking questions.

lasthero said:

Oh. Well, that’s not what you said, so you’ll have to forgive my confusion.

So, things that you haven’t seen can come out of nothing, then?

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Look it up in the Bible, do your own research.

My position is that God who is self-existent. has created everything i see pertaining to the earth, sun, moon stars, water, light, etc.. and things is do not see (angels).
He has also set a system where man using Gods creation can also produce things (cars, painting, books, etc,,,).

State what you believe and in the end we can see who is correct.

d taylor said:

Look it up in the Bible, do your own research.

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The difficulty is that there is more than one way to interpret the words of Scripture. It would therefore be helpful if you could present your interpretation and your justification for that interpretation so that we might better understand your position.

d taylor said:

Look it up in the Bible, do your own research.

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I’m not asking the Bible, I’m asking you.

My position is that God who is self-existent.

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So now you’re saying things can exist without a creator.

has created everything i see pertaining to the earth, sun, moon stars, water, light, etc.. and things is do not see (angels).

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So not just things you see, then.

State what you believe and in the end we can see who is correct.

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I believe in many things. The power of love, I’m falling in love, Harvey Dent...

Ophiolite said:

The difficulty is that there is more than one way to interpret the words of Scripture. It would therefore be helpful if you could present your interpretation and your justification for that interpretation so that we might better understand your position.

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Take Joshua 10:12-15
I do not interpret, these verses. I take the verses and the Bibles account, as given. Joshua commanded the sun and moon to stop moving. There are areas of the Bible that do have interpretations, especially areas involving future prophecy. but for me when the Bible speaks of Gods creation i take the accounts as given in the Bible as is.

Now people who do not take this verse as given in the Bible, then they do interpret these verses to make them fit their beliefs. And more than likely to make the Bible go along with the worlds views.

Ophiolite said:

Because the honest thing, the action that displays integrity, the approach that moves us closer to truth is to examine, carefully, frankly, in depth, our beliefs.

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Socrates stated that all men were liars and I agree with him on that point. So don't mention honesty and integrity because they are mere ideals.

And yet science has explored possible explanations for the Big Bang.

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The reason for existence is beyond the reach of science, far beyond the limitations of the four fundamental forces.

Please stay within the defined domain of science.

Well, it would give them one up over the scientists! More seriously, scientists give us the details of what happened from the first tiny fraction of a second. From creationists we get only hand waving generalities.

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Science does not know how long a duration or even what the singularity was in the first place.

Let alone speculating about about some short inflation event where infinite energy became an unfathomable universe of two trillion galaxies.
If you accept that ridiculous extrapolation you will believe anything.

There are stars dated that are older than the universe and you are wrong on this point.

The core of the globular cluster Omega Centauri is one of the most crowded regions of old stars. While the stars here are over 12 billion years old, some stars are dated at more than 14 billion years of age, which is a problem because the Universe itself is only 13.8 billion years old.

How foolish. If we already had all the answers we would not still be asking questions.

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You have no answers to the big questions, in fact, you have enormous questions to answer now. And I'm afraid that your going to need something more powerful than science or mathematics to start delving into the very ether itself.

klutedavid said:

The core of the globular cluster Omega Centauri is one of the most crowded regions of old stars. While the stars here are over 12 billion years old, some stars are dated at more than 14 billion years of age, which is a problem because the Universe itself is only 13.8 billion years old.

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Where is this from?

lasthero said:

I’m not asking the Bible, I’m asking you.


So now you’re saying things can exist without a creator.




So not just things you see, then.



I believe in many things. The power of love, I’m falling in love, Harvey Dent...

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God is spirit and is not subject to time.

We cannot understand anything about God because God exists far beyond the dimension of space time.

God is love and that we can know.