Abortion--The REAL reason that Democrats, Republicans.....

tall73 said:

It is possible there are a very few pro-choice adherents who view abortion as a sacrament.

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If this is really true, than why does my dad (a Catholic-Christian man and who I consider to be intelligent and not very stupid) even say they are "baby killers" or acknowledge that they are killing babies. I agree with whatever he says about it most of the time. Seems to suggest that they all actually are in some way, which wouldn't even surprise me.

IMVHO, those who claim that they would advance a "theocracy" agenda are likely false-flag protesters, with the intention of making said theocracy the central issue, rather than Fetal Rights/murder. It is spin.

tall73 said:

...that the real reason pro-life people want to outlaw abortion is that it would be the the first step in a theocracy.

...that the real reason that pro-choice people support abortion is that it is a satanic/death cult/pagan sacrament of human sacrifice.

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Interesting that while one side accuses the other of attempting to establish a rule by God, their opponents accuse them of trying to establish a rule by Satan. Black-and-white thinking may be disingenuous as you say, but one might wonder at the sides being chosen. These attributions may be exaggerated, but I'll wager there's a nugget of truth in there.

Abortion ends a life.

The child it kills has not even committed a sin. The death penalty is too harsh a punishment for an inconvience

Stormy said:

Abortion ends a life.

The child it kills has not even committed a sin. The death penalty is too harsh a punishment for an inconvience

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I missed the part of the bible that says there are people without sin.

Stormy said:

Abortion ends a life.

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So does contraception...sperm and ova are living things...

So what...?

Hmmm thanks but.. the real reason? Who can speak for any side?

Stormy said:

Abortion ends a life.

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I agree with you.

Stormy said:

The child it kills has not even committed a sin.

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Psalms 51:5.

Stormy said:

The death penalty is too harsh a punishment for an inconvience

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Again, I agree with you.

One might think that The Almighty would have spelled out His views on abortion, clearly and plainly, back when He was still cobbling together His Holy Word.

One thing that is often glossed over too, is the fact that childhood mortality dropped off a cliff, ~42% (1840] to 0.652% (2015)*

If a woman becomes pregnant (whether she wishes to or not), a moratorium on abortion requires her to carry any viable fetus to term.
If the State requires this, then, under the Constitution, such women should be recompensed for having been conscripted to produce babies.
We should also reinstitute the draft, so that men share some risk of being conscripted against their will!



*blob:https://ourworldindata.org/0817222e-c9b1-4c69-87d1-d42a809962e7

The one that makes me go "sheesh" is the claim that so many abortions are done for "convenience." Every single legislator who says that should be required to live with those inconveniences for a year.

Of course it is obvious they shrug "inconveniences" off because they are so unwilling to assist women and their children when it is necessary. They lack 10% of the courage and stoicism of single moms and poor kids.

Sabertooth said:

IMVHO, those who claim that they would advance a "theocracy" agenda are likely false-flag protesters, with the intention of making said theocracy the central issue, rather than Fetal Rights/murder. It is spin.

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I think you underestimate just how many people on the right wing are in favor of a Christian theocracy in the United States.

Have you not seen the numerous calls for things like "Getting God back in schools" or claiming that our country is a "Christian Nation".

There are many right wing evangelicals who sincerely feel threatened by the mere fact that their personal religious views aren't on the same societal pedestal they once were, and conflate that with there being some sort of attack directly on them.

I think religion is the tool that republicans exploit in order to get Christians on their side, but for those who are actually running the party (uber-wealthy captains of industry), it's likely not about anything other than limiting taxation so they can keep pockets fat.


The last thing they want is for some folks on the right wing to thing that any sort of public funded program is a solution to a problem, so they make it a polarizing battle, and present the actual solutions to the problem as "socialism" as to scare people out of voting for the things that would actually lower the abortion rates.

Here's the reality, the abortion issue stems from the unplanned pregnancy issues...given that fact
If right wing evangelicals, given how staunchly they believe abortion is murder, became familiarized with the fact (again, not opinion, but fact) that things like comprehensive public school sex ed reduce unplanned pregnancy risk by 50%


Publicly funded contraception reduces it by 20%

And in nations with stronger social safety nets for single moms, abortion rates are about lower than they are here

...they'd likely be in favor of those things. And if they came to the realization that democratic safety net policies would actually reduce abortion (the thing they hate the most), that would be the GOP's worst nightmare.

ThatRobGuy said:

I think you underestimate just how many people on the right wing are in favor of a Christian theocracy in the United States.

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I am definitely looking forward to the Thearchy, but a replica of such is outside of the scope of our current secular government. Both types of government have shared objectives,

• You shall not murder.
• You shall not steal.
• You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
• The Golden Rule is a useful guideline [Matthew 7:12].

If it can discern that slaves are people more than they are property, it can discern the same about embryos & fetuses. No adherence to a theocracy is required.

Sabertooth said:

I am definitely looking forward to the Thearchy, but a replica of such is outside of the scope of our current secular government. Both types of government have shared objectives,

• You shall not murder.
• You shall not steal.
• You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
• The Golden Rule is a useful guideline [Matthew 7:12].

If it can discern that slaves are people more than they are property, it can discern the same about embryos & fetuses. No adherence to a theocracy is required.

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Who is killed in an abortion?
First name, middle initial and surname, please!

Pommer said:

Who is killed in an abortion?
First name, middle initial and surname, please!

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Their surname is that of their mother or father.

Why would a name assignment be necessary to establish one's humanity...!?

Sabertooth said:

Their surname is that of their mother or father.

Why would a name assignment be necessary to establish one's humanity...!?

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Our Constitution (at present) only recognizes those who have drawn breath as legal entities, entitled to all the protections that a state may deem fit.

Please pass an amendment that spells out that embryos’ “rights” trump those of real, actual, and breathing women.

Thanks.

Pommer said:

Our Constitution (at present) only recognizes those who have drawn breath as legal entities, entitled to all the protections that a state may deem fit.

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Prior to the 13th Amendment, this same Constitution deemed another class of people to be property. Was it correct in doing so, then?